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Archive 2016 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales

  
 
kdphotography
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


I've done corporate event printing for many years, starting with the venerable Kodak ML500. In my experience, providing onsite printing and sales beats online "after the event" sales hands-down. But if either workflow makes money for you----that's all that matters. Printing onsite does take some know-how and most importantly a rock solid workflow.

I purchased two DNP DS80 printers to replace my ML500 when Kodak Professional closed their doors (sad day). I've since decided to go into semi-retirement and focus only on portraiture, commercial, and fine art printing. I've listed both printers for sale here at FM. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1423360/0#lastmessage

ken



Apr 08, 2016 at 10:36 AM
Michael White
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


ELinder wrote:
Extremely interesting statistics. However I'd debate whether you can properly draw your conclusion from those statistics. You can certainly say from your results that people prefer, given the choice of both on-site and later online, they choose to purchase immediately on-site. However you'd need to have a similar sized show with only online afterward sales to really say whether there would be less sales compared to having on-site sales.

I'm currently debating whether to go from after the show on-line sales to on-site sales. Although the equestrian shows I shoot are much smaller, I'm the only photographer, so any change means
...Show more

I used to shoot small cmsa events and found that on site sales far out did online sales. I was also a one man show shot every run then uploaded all photos after the event. I tried about every combo from someone scaling photos while I shot best option but not cost effective for me. To scaling after each day's event to purely online sales. Online only was the reason I quit doing it. I did prints from ink jet to DVDs on site and went thru a online printing contractor for online sales that way all I had to do was edit photos if needed then upload them but not a single sale online.




Apr 12, 2016 at 09:11 PM
luketrot
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Hammy wrote:
Both showed very similar sales trends:

The BIG show:
Onsite: 89.6% of overall sales
Online day after show: 2.9% (got images online late that day after traveling home)
Online day 2: 3.3% (the day we said images would be online)
Online day 3: 1.6%
Online day 4: 1.4%
Online day 5: 0.8%

Second event:
Onsite: 83.5% (less viewstations/booth presence)
Online next day: 5.3% (Had images uploaded very early that day over hotel internet)
Online day 2: 7.87% (day we said images would be online)
Online day 3: 1.9%
Online day 4: 1.4%

Onsite delivery was only for digital images on disc (no prints delivered on site) ( @Luke )


It's been so long since I have logged into FM that I had to reset my password.

1. The last day online would be your best day online.
2. I see you changed your opinion regarding fulfillment onsite.
3. Good Luck this weekend at Disney!



Apr 20, 2016 at 09:30 AM
Hammy
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales




1. The last day online would be your best day online.
?
The last day onsite is my best day.


2. I see you changed your opinion regarding fulfillment onsite.

Onsite digital delivery...not prints.
All a business decision...cheaper to deliver digital onsite vs mailing discs.
Still not cheaper to staff/print onsite.
no benefit to printing onsite with customers leaving.


3. Good Luck this weekend at Disney!
Thank you..so far, so good.
Six venues, setup ahead of schedule and all running smooth....only 24,000 more DVDs to hand out to 50+ countries :-)



Apr 21, 2016 at 10:19 PM
gschlact
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Hammy / Glort,
So on site purchases is key, I believe you.
Viewing station limitation, I believe you.
But, let's say you setup your local server to act like an online site, to display via local access via personal comnected phones/tablets/laptops, which allowed selections for print purchses (shipped) and immediate digital download purchases (including directories or sub event).

Would this let you forego your own viewing station setup and still reap the benefit of higher on site sales?
If so, what is different between this setup and online purchases? In Hammy's examples, how provides both but clearly capture many more onsite. Is it the immediate availability? In which case this proposed idea would work the same way, wouldn't it?
In fact, why not use your own current online hosting/order management system (custom, or something like smugmug/zenfolio etc) by uploading low res immediately during the event from your server? Would this again meet the sales success of onsite sales? If not, what so you see as the differences that would lower success you've come to expect? Of course you could still market onsite via flags and monitors to encourage people to connect with their own device to build the sam level of awareness.

Guy



Apr 25, 2016 at 01:38 AM
ELinder
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


At my last show in addition to having my iPads available for image preview I also set up another iPad with a form I created with FormConnect (a great little app that saves customer info in kiosk mode) for people to input contact info and which photo numbers they were interested in purchasing. After the show I sent direct email links to those photos. Every one who signed up bought that photo.

It wasn't a huge amount, but I don't know if it's because it was a new show, or if my previous customers (many of who were also there) are used to doing everything online after the show. The normal for me after event online sales were far more, but there was enough on-site response that I'll try to expand on it during the next show.

Erich



Apr 25, 2016 at 08:47 AM
glort
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


gschlact wrote:
But, let's say you setup your local server to act like an online site, to display via local access via personal comnected phones/tablets/laptops, which allowed selections for print purchses (shipped) and immediate digital download purchases (including directories or sub event).

Would this let you forego your own viewing station setup and still reap the benefit of higher on site sales?


Interesting question.

First thing that comes to mind is if they see the pic on their phones or iplads, they have it.
same as on a computer which was why I wouldn't put stuff online.

Do NOT underestimate the resolve of people, particularly younger people to get a free pic. No amount of watermarking or copyright notices will deter the majority of them. Welcome to the times of self entitlement.

Next thing that comes to mind as an old person is you are going to be trying to sell pics off a pissy4" phone screen. Yes, for a lot of people that would be OK and they are used to looking at tiny pics but is that the buyers or the parents paying for them that will do that?

years ago I had the idea to download the pics AFTER purchase to the clients phones. The display of the pics would be on the Vstations but instead of burning disks as we were, I wanted to send the high res file to their devices. At he time I was told this was difficult and slow. That was a while back and I don't know if it is still impractical or very easy these days.

Myself, I would NEVER give up the Vstations. You could offer this other way ( which I think would result in a lot of people stealing the images) but I would still have the V stations.
They don't cost that much, are not hard to set up and the returns justify all the effort in having them.


If so, what is different between this setup and online purchases? In Hammy's examples, how provides both but clearly capture many more onsite. Is it the immediate availability? In which case this proposed idea would work the same way, wouldn't it?


It's not so much the immediate availability, hammy doesn't print on-sight for a lot of his gigs, just gets orders. I think it's more about the excitement of the moment. That's one reason online falls behind onsite. Because the excitement and moment has passed and faded.

While essentially the same as online, I think having the pics on the peoples own devise is going to bite you on the backside. As I see it, you are going to have to watermark the images so heavily they will loose all their impact and appeal and if you don't, the people will have them on their phone already and no matter how shitty the res, will be just fine to show others off the phone.


In fact, why not use your own current online hosting/order management system (custom, or something like smugmug/zenfolio etc) by uploading low res immediately during the event from your server?

If you had the speed connection to do so, could work. But if you were at the event, I'd be concentrating on selling directly rather than online.
People want to keep avoiding it, but onsite, as repeatedly stated and in fact proven in this very thread, is the BEST way to sell pics. Instead of trying to get around it, People would do better to embrace it. Sometimes there is no quick and easy get around. The way to do something best and make the most money requires an investment of time, money and effort.
That's all there is to it and anything else will NOT be the best or most profitable way even if it is easier, faster or cheaper.


Would this again meet the sales success of onsite sales? If not, what so you see as the differences that would lower success you've come to expect? Of course you could still market onsite via flags and monitors to encourage people to connect with their own device to build the sam level of awareness.

Guy


I don't believe it would come near meeting the same level of sales as having Vstations.

As short as it may sound, there is one overriding reason why I wouldn't even be bothered trying this.....

Because Hammy doesn't do it.

And for me, after all the help the man has given me and having seen how switched on and well thought out everything he does is, If he's not doing it already, there are a pile of good reasons he'd have that I'm not experienced or smart enough to think of myself but when explained, I'd agree whole heartedly with.

He's not loading up semis with Vstations because he has nothing better to do with his time. If setting up a wifi server at the events was all he had to do to make sales that were high enough to justify going that way and taking into account the savings he'd make in other areas such as transport and labor alone, He'd be telling us how to do it. If he thought for a second letting people look at the pics on their phones as well as offering the Vstations was going to increase his bottom line, he'd already be doing it.

The fact he is not is really all I need to know without worrying about the reasons why.
One reason, the fact he's not doing it makes the reasons behind that insignificant to me.





Apr 26, 2016 at 07:58 AM
luketrot
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Success in this business has nothing to do with if your printing onsite, selling online or customers using their own devices as vstations. It's about building profitable relationships with organizations that have customers willing to pay for your photos. It's about finding quality people that are willing to give up their free time (often weekends) to help you succeed. And if your lucky to find the right organization and locate the right people you only have yourself a hobby. It doesn't turn into a business until your able to reproduce your success over and over until your calendar is full.

Odds are if your past the "hobby" stage you probably already know your market. The opinion of one or more forum members on FM is interesting but not necessary best for your business. Not printing onsite or selling online might be the right choice for some successful businesses but I know our market and it's absolutely beneficial for us.



Apr 27, 2016 at 07:57 AM
thebmrust
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


How would these sales philosophies apply to my situation:

11 local high schools
often times 4-6 games a day
4 days a week
9 months a year

We shoot 1/2 a game then move to the next game, shoot 1/2 then the next.... Sometimes we shoot a full game or event but not always.



May 14, 2016 at 10:12 PM
gschlact
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


thebmrust wrote:
How would these sales philosophies apply to my situation:

11 local high schools
often times 4-6 games a day
4 days a week
9 months a year

We shoot 1/2 a game then move to the next game, shoot 1/2 then the next.... Sometimes we shoot a full game or event but not always.


Bsed on your relationship with these high schools, I wouldn't think you are shooting on Spec? If true, then the discussion of onsite or not etc, dosent really apply.... ?



May 14, 2016 at 11:01 PM
Hammy
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


thebmrust wrote:
How would these sales philosophies apply to my situation:

11 local high schools
often times 4-6 games a day
4 days a week
9 months a year

We shoot 1/2 a game then move to the next game, shoot 1/2 then the next.... Sometimes we shoot a full game or event but not always.



Simple...law of diminishing returns.

Once customers realize you are there every game/week/month...they will wait until the end of the season to find the best photos that you've taken.

You can try to "only available for 3 days" - but you have to market that MORE than you market that you HAVE photos. People will assume that they can get photos now...and later. And like any good consumer, they will realize that you have A good shot this week, but will wait for next week, then plan on the following...then realize they should wait until the end of season to get the 'best of the best'

I did this my first year...13+ years ago...took on all jobs that I could. Ended up competing with myself!
By the 3rd show in the same area, I barely covered costs.

But as Luke mentioned...if it's a hobby and you have fun - DO IT! To treat it as a business, it's a matter of cost/profit...and...supply/demand. Simple economics....if you over saturate the supply, the demand goes down.
Find a way to keep the supply at the peak of demand...whether by doing only select 'premium' events or seriously restricting access to previous events (but customers HAVE to know that).



May 14, 2016 at 11:16 PM
thebmrust
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Yes, we are shooting on spec 98%of the time. Yet at least once a week we get an order or two just by being at a game (being there reminds parents to come ask about orders). A parent will come up before or during halftime... or tweet/text/DM me while I am at a game and ask about ordering.

In 2014 when we started, initially, it was only going to be a few games, enough to get us in front of juniors & seniors for portrait sessions. Then I saw all the sports that had ZERO photo coverage, even the local paper didn't cover them. So we hit the road running and covered EVERYTHING that was a sport including cheer, dance, and band.

From that effort our work and commitment was noticed and the 8 Athletic Directors of the conference offered us free reign credentials. Pretty much anywhere a school employee can go, we can go.

Now we are treated as equals to the paid news media. There are very few employees in the 3 school districts that don't know who we are, including many parents. And yes, we became a commodity at that point.

We reduced our coverage this year by about 50% and marketed a bit more directly and that increased sales, but not to the point we are out of the "hobby" portion in regards to money earned versus time/effort spent.

We do have space to do onsite sales at all the venues, but I'm not sure setting up a sales pit for a single football (basketball, cheer, volleyball, swim, dance....) game would have enough returns to justify the time & expense EXCEPT it would put us into the realm of exclusivity.

Knowing how you all have worked in the past (onsite sales), I know the drill (so to speak). That being said, a sales trailer would be great... but we aren't there yet (but it's planned for our future).

The first year was almost all about just showing up to everything. We did that and it paid off with access. We created some deep relationships with students (all grades), gained trust and access. Even got asked to be in prom pictures for one school last year. (not take, but be IN their group pic).

This year it was about reducing our coverage and being more rare so we would be asked to be commissioned to cover games/players. That worked too... but not at the level we wanted. We have done several single player paid games this year. Hope to increase that next year. We have been asked about covering a team at state finals in a few weeks (we covered them last year too) and it's a paid gig.

Next year (in a few months), we will be working with the booster clubs (and marketing to parents directly).

It's not perfect, but we are making gains every year. In this area, there are seven 3A & 4A high schools within 15 minutes of each other makes for a target rich environment. Add in the teams from outside the region and the 3 smaller private schools makes about 12,000 students (9th-12th grade).

When I started shooting HS sports in 2014 there were a regular group of 10-12 photographers. Now there are 4. One will drop off this year since his son is graduating. Might even see another one drop off, I don't remember what grades his kid(s) are. That leaves two... one only cover their school, she's a portrait photographer and is the AD's wife so she shoots their school only.

Me... I am the only one that shoots all schools (roughly) equally. That puts me in a realm not even the news paper photographers can match.



May 15, 2016 at 07:18 PM
glort
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


thebmrust wrote:
We do have space to do onsite sales at all the venues, but I'm not sure setting up a sales pit for a single football (basketball, cheer, volleyball, swim, dance....) game would have enough returns to justify the time & expense EXCEPT it would put us into the realm of exclusivity.


I still don't get why everyone ( who hasn't done it) seems to think that setting up for onsite sales is such a big expensive drama. It's really not a big deal. You don't need up to date computers, anything that runs win xp and has a USB or network connection will do and thats every machine made in the last 10+ years.
Even if you only put 5 stations in to trial, you'd soon see the lineup of customers you'd get and realise the potential. If online is working for you, onsite will be 10 times as good.

If you are not sure if it would work, Try it a few times!
Not once because the first time it's likley your problems that may not let it work to it's full potential and you would need to educate the clients as well as yourselves.

You would also need to make sure you had signage, announcements and a good spot to set up, not just any old location. It needs to be in a high traffic area like near toilets, canteen, place they all have to register etc.
No need to do onsite printing, it's the orders and the money you want so just stick to that.
I used Jalbum and paper order pads I printed myself and that worked fine for us.


Knowing how you all have worked in the past (onsite sales), I know the drill (so to speak). That being said, a sales trailer would be great... but we aren't there yet (but it's planned for our future).


I loved my event trailer. It was hard work but having sold the thing, I miss having it around even though I would have no use for it. Yeah, I never said I was sane!

Are you doing mainly indoor or outdoor work? I got the impression a lot of it was indoor and if that is the case, I would say don't bother with a trailer. You need to be right in front of the people.

If you are doing outdoor then you'll be right and they are a great assett.

A few random thoughts based on 3.5 years of running a trailer:

DON'T put all the Vstations in the trailer windows or inside the trailer. I know you can get big trailers in the states cheap but it's still not the right way to go in my opinion. You can never get a trailer big enough to fit you and the clients or enough vstations.
I had a ( too) small trailer but got a pop up shelter/ gazebo/ tent and put at the back opening window. The tent was 6x3m and I could easily get 20 Laptop Vstations in there.
had I the need, I could have put another tent, 20 Laptops and 3 folding tables in the trailer to transport and had 40 Vstations cheaply and easily and without having the problems of pulling a huge trailer round and parking/ reversing it etc.

the laptops were on folding tables with some extended legs I welded up to get them up to height. I made cabling to fit for power and ethernet connections and bundled that in conduit so it was only one thick cable. The cable just had to be run out and hooked up to the tent with the in place elastic straps and then everything plugged in which was right where it had to be. Running 20 separate power leads and ethernet cables every time is a joke. The idea is to pre set everything up so it is exactly where you want it and falls into place every time.

The biggest problem with having screens in windows in the trailer or mounted on shelves along side is you can't see the screens in daylight. I got a black tent and there was no problem with glare and reflections. You will also need a good fan for warmer days. I put an axial type aircon booster fan UNDER the trailer blowing the cooler air into the tent which made a huge difference. I also had a fan mounted in a top corner of the trailer.
The servers made the trailer very cosy in winter but I nearly gave my poor Son heatstroke the first time out with the heat and lack of air even though the thing was completely open on 2 sides and had a door on the 3rd. Fan made all the difference.
Being in the US I spose most people with event trailers ( are there any left?) would have a 3 ton AC unit on the top. :0)

Put a shelf on the outside of the trailer where you can put a laptop or a keyboard and mouse with the computer and screen inside. I found it really handy to be able to stand outside with people and look at orders etc instead of everyone being jammed in the trailer and falling over themselves. also being able to stand next to someone and not have that window barrier is great for rapport and relationship building.

I had those cliplock type brackets on the outside of the trailer that you just clipped the support brackets on then sat the white melamine board on. When taken off, the brackets stick out less than an inch so are no problem to have on the side of the trailer. The shelves were great for people to sit their handbags on when rummaging for credit cards etc and for a place to write/ modify orders.

You won't get 20 Vstations on any trailer short of a semi and the tents are a cheap, lightweight and easily expandable way to go. We did some distant weekend events and shoved all the tables to one end of the tent and slept in the thing over night and had room for cooking, food prep etc. Having power we could also run a heater to keep up warm in winter.

Get a decent size trailer, I'd say 12ft minimum and make sure you can stand up in the thing.
Also make sure it looks the part. You can get that car wrap Vinyl cheap as now and you can cover the things in that and do some funky graphics etc.

Invest in Signage.
I welded up a frame for my trailer and hinged it which went up like a hoarding. I attached the laminated sign and then 2 of us slid the thing up the runners I made and locked it into place. When traveling it sat along side the outside of the trailer. I got some telescoping tent poles and I could also stretch a cover across the thing and prop it up like an awning in the summer to keep the glaring light and heat out of the trailer.

Also have sandwich boards, plenty of them to put around the venue. You'll be amazed how people can walk right by and not " see" you. Multi reminders jogs people memories.

Put a good UPS in the trailer. This is important.
When it comes time to go home, people are more keen to get out of the place than worry about who is connected to the power when they flick the switch off. Breakers and things trip through the day as well.
You will want all your sever computers in the trailer on UPS backup as well as some of your V stations. I got a used and high output UPS and rather than use the internal batteries which were shot and would have been a fortune to replace, I got some starter cables and hooked up some car batteries. While not ideal for the application, they were more than fine for the occasional need I had and gave over an hours power backup so we could finish whatever we working on without loosing it.
A solar panel up on top with a small charge controller just to keep the UPS batteries zapped up when the trailer wasn't being used.

It is also a real good idea to have a generator for places where power isn't available or you may get flack for running long leads etc. Get one a little over size for your needs. That way you can run lights, chargers etc. as well as computers. I would also be putting as many solar panels on the roof as I could get up there now because for the majority of the day you'll be doing nothing but shooting and could run just a few V stations with the days and last events pics. People don't tend to come to the end so If I could get away with not having a generator running all day that would be great. a KW of solar would go a long way I reckon especially if your vstations were laptops.

Lights on the outside of the trailer powered by an internal battery will make life 100 times easier.
When you are trying to pack up after dark, nothing is worse than not being able to see what you are doing or trying to hold a torch while you are doing it. LED worklights are cheap as chips now and you can put one on every side of the trailer and internally to make things so much better for those late packups.

Get a trailer with brakes.
Don't matter if the thing dosen't need them by law or you are under rating. Brakes make towing a trailer so much less stressful. When I got my trailer the axle was stuffed so I had to get a new one and fabricate and weld in the brackets. I paid the extra and got a mechanically braked axle and always was very happy with that decision. Going down tight mountain roads to get to some of the horse events was never a problem no matter how much crap I had loaded in the thing which will always be more than you anticipate. Instead of the vehicle trying to hold back the trailer, I could set it up so the trailer was holding back the vehicle.
Very comforting.

Wire the trailer.
Set up everything the way you want it then wire the thing up so all the power outlets are where you want them as well as network cabling etc. Put in switches and lights as and where you need them so everything is right where you want it comfortably.

I also mounted all my printers, servers, routers, wifi aerials etc to the trailer and custom cut all the power cords etc so they were the right length and to stop the excess hanging round. Things move a LOT in a trailer so make them all as permanent as you can.
To tie a lot of stuff down, all I did was make simple angle brackets where they say and drilled holes so I could put ocky straps over the top. Was simple, cheap, lightweights and worked perfectly in keeping things put.

Add in creature comforts.
I put a tank under mine for drinking water, hand washing etc. Also had a small fridge to keep the milk for the coffee and tea from spoiling and have cold cans of drink. Had a Kettle for tea and coffee and a drawer with beverage provisions and things like soup, noodles the kids loved, Biscuits etc. A small microwave is also a great extra to have.

I made a frame on the front of the trailer that lifted up and I could put a tarp over for a rest and junk area. I covered in teh drawbar so we could sit or put junk on it and witht eh cover was like a little verandah. We could put folding chairs and a table in there for us to sit and eat or have a rest at and leave boxes or packaging and general mess we didn't want cluttering up the trailer when we were working. Was also good for storage for overnight trips to give us room in the tent for living and sleeping.

If you are doing long trips, you could also add in a spare fuel tank under the trailer. Being I made my own fuel and didn't want to buy it, I put a tank and a pump under the trailer so I could carry extra fuel and just pump it into the truck as needed. Saved space elsewhere which was in short supply that I would have needed for Jerry cans etc.

Make sure you have a good, easy to get at spare or 2 for the trailer.

Have a good lockbox or safe in the trailer. Obviously for cash but for equipment is good too especially if you might want to leave the trailer and go into town for a feed etc.

Have plenty of counter space at your windows and internally. There is never enough along with built in cupboards and drawers.


Trailers are great to use, give you a lot of presence and professionalism but ARE hard work. If you think that doing an Indoor onsite setup is going to be too much work and effort, don't even think about a trailer.



May 15, 2016 at 10:12 PM
thebmrust
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


I'm mobile right now so I'll have to wait a day yet back at your reply.

We shoot every sport except:
cross country (fall): another photographer used to cover it WAAAYYY better than us. But his kids graduated. So we might pick it up next year.

boys swimming (winter): they don't have a local pool. Have to drive :45 one way for practice and 1:30 the their for events.

We cover everything else: volleyball, girls swim/dive, soccer (boys/girls), gymnastics, bowling, football, dance, cheer, marching band, pep band, basketball (boys/girls), wrestling, tennis (boys/girls), baseball, softball, track & field (boys/girls), and golf, (boys/girls). We have also covered intramural lacrosse (not school affiliates but might be in a few years).

All the venues (inside & out) have places we could set up.

The way we shoot right now: shoot a portion of a game then head to the next. We rarely shoot a full game unless to has conference implications or it's a long time rivalry (we have opposing brothers who coach wrestling). We also have father in law who is a defensive coach of a rival team to his head coach son in law.

A trailer would allow for outdoor venues to be self contained but we couldn't shoot multiple games. Honestly, shooting basketball for an hour and a half is boring because it's the same players back & forth back & forth. Volleyball... same.

That's why we shoot 4-6 games a night. My record was 8 partial games in one night. Plus a portrait session that morning.

We'll see how it goes working with the boosters. With hopes of onsite sales by next year. Even cheap view stations have to be purchased. And right now, bodies & glass take priority.



May 16, 2016 at 01:50 AM
glort
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


thebmrust wrote:
. With hopes of onsite sales by next year. Even cheap view stations have to be purchased. And right now, bodies & glass take priority.


I know it's a moot point to say but I have to disagree. Gear is NOT the priority, SALES are.

When I was doing event work, I had 3x 10D's and some various consumer grade Non L type glass.
Later on I was able to upgrade to better bodies ( one a 600D) and some better glass.
The fact I had a trailer and Vstations allowed me to make the money to improve the gear. Gear will not work the other way round and improve your sales.

The ingrained belief with shooters is the pics have to be/ can only be taken on the very best gear.
That's not what my many years of experience has shown.
the 600D was a big jump over the 10D and I used that to shoot cheer when my regular cam had battery problems in 2014. The pics were every bit as good as what others were shooting with 1D's because I could set the camera up the same and the rest relied on my skill not the camera's technical ability.

Anyway, trying to convince shooters that gear is not a priority in like trying to bail out the titanic but thought I would put it out there.

Like I said, DON'T fall for the same gear mentality with the vstations. I can't remember what mine were spec wise but I got them for virtually nothing because they were well and truly out of date and basicaly useless 8 years or so ago when I got them. The first ones were Small form factors I built into cases modeled off Hammys design. They had removeable legs so we could stack them on top of one another after folding down the hinged screens.
They were bloody heavy though.

They were very low powered Celeron machines from memory with 500Mb of ram and a 30G Hdd. As Jalbum is all HTML based, they were only running web based files off a server so didn't need a lot of grunt. We had a couple of situations where computers and networks do as they do and wouldn't talk. I would load the gallery files onto one machine in the paired case and link them. that cut down on the amount of machines we had to load the pics onto.
We found we could share 6 machines eventually and they all ran fine with no real lack of speed.

A full gallery layout complete would rarely go over 300MB so was a small amount of info to process. The laptops were a bit more decent but still well out of date and worth very little. had them given to me as well due to them being ex gubberment and the organization that had them being unable to sell them.

I tried to set up Wi-Fi on both lots of machines but couldn't get it to an acceptable level. I had 2 Gigbit feds coming out of the server into 2 Multi channel wireless G routers and g series USB dongles in the machines but they still were too laggy and slow. I invested a fair bit of time and money into the wi-fi but it was never really good enough and I went back to the cable.
When tested individualy the pics were very quick but having 20 with kids flicking through pics as fast as they came up wasn't something the wi fi seemed to be able to handle well. The cable laughed at it. My biggest setup for an indoor event I think was 60 stations. I had that coming out of a work station into a server with a gigabit switch running into multiple 5 port switches.
The network was far better than the windoze software I was running but I learnt my lesson.

I did use some of the wi-fi components to do wireless transfer of files back to the trailer. Wasn't a compact setup shooting tethered back to a laptop connected to an external aeirel on a light stand aimed back at the trailer but it was all off the shelf and did work well. I forget the exact time now but I could shoot a pic and have it on the vstations within 12 sec or something amazing like that.

I would look for places that deal in ex gubbermint computers. I used a charity organisation that had pallets and pallets of the things. There weree so many they couldn't sell along with servers and UPS systems that no one wanted but were great for me.
I bought the first lot of 5 machines or something for about $30 ea. I got talking to the guy running the place and offered to help out with some photo services to leverage their sales.
I went back and spent a day there chatting, drinking coffee and eating the food they kept bringing me more than shooting but got them decent pics for their advertising and editorial needs.

I also did a re write of some of their advertising and appeal material off my own back and submitted it to them as a suggestion. they used a fair bit of it and with the pictures their computer sales really took off. After that the guy running the place just point blank refused to take any money from me. They took off and pretty quick the computer refurb dept was making far more money than all their other income streams put together. The guy always used to say it was all thanks to me but he was a bloody dedicated, kind, smart, and hard working bloke that was the one that made it happen for them.

I'd drop in, often when I was going past to see if they needed anything new in the way of pics, and i'd ask about something and be shown what the latest arrivals were. They literally had pallets and pallets of stuff delivered by truck almost every day. At the low end of the market, there are mountains of this IT stuff and only a limited market.
One of the things I hooked this company up with was selling the stuff to 3rd world and under priveledged countries. They were happy to get a computer that worked let alone worry about the specs of the thing. They all run word and the net! :0)

Also, have a look in the dumpsters at IT places on teh weekends. A few months ago I came across a bin and what was in it was quite amazing. I only have about 20 switches but I couldn't help pick up another 5 or so given they were in perfect nick and a bunch of cables.

You'll still do better concentrating on perfecting selling the pics rather than taking them though!



May 16, 2016 at 10:25 PM
thebmrust
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Well, when one doesn't have gear, gear is important.


May 17, 2016 at 02:09 PM
glort
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


thebmrust wrote:
Well, when one doesn't have gear, gear is important.


So you don't have a camera and suitable length lens or you don't have the camera and lenses you WANT? :0)

There is a BIG difference.



May 17, 2016 at 06:20 PM
thebmrust
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


ummm, both?

I shot sports with the 10D & 70-200 for several years. Then got a 1D vI & 70-200, then the 1DmkIIn & 70-200. Then the 70-200 went off kilter so the longest we had was 85 1.8 (others were 50, 17-50 (until it broke) and a manual focus 15 y/o Tokina 300).

While I can shoot artfully with an 85 or a 50 I chose not to.



May 18, 2016 at 05:22 PM
gschlact
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


just curious, what equipment are you using now for field sports and indoor sports?


May 18, 2016 at 06:22 PM
JFreeman
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Onsite vs Online: Event Sales


Good Stuff Here....If you talk to any event photographer that does high volume you'll find that onsite viewing stations trump online every time! I promise.....It's an impulse buy! I am not talking about shooting Plastic events or games(Regular season games, a normal every weekend tournament(Plastic Trophy prize). But State, Regional and national events Viewing stations will out produce every time. Saying that, some sports will sell better on line than others. Some we never post online and others we will post online but require a $25 deposit to view them. We too pulled multiple thousands of dollars from online sales last year, but that was less than 10% of what we did on site. Hammy is a wealth of knowledge and we are lucky he is willing to share it with us, However the events many of you are comparing his events against are like comparing Apples to Apple seeds.


Aug 07, 2016 at 10:14 PM
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