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Archive 2016 · White Balance and Light Flicker

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · White Balance and Light Flicker


What shutter speed limit is generally advised to stay out of trouble? If I were to shoot 1/60 all is well. I shot some venues 1/500 - 1/1000, no problems. When I shot 1/2000 the results were pretty awkward, but still fixable in post. Does the borderline shutter speed depend on the type of lighting?

Thanks,
Ralph



Mar 16, 2016 at 03:08 PM
Deborah Kolt
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · White Balance and Light Flicker


I've found 1/1000 does better than higher shutter speeds. Since each light is flickering independently, the light over your subject may be one temperature, while the ones in the background are at a different phase and a completely different color. As venues replace bulbs, they sometimes put in different kinds of (cheaper) bulbs with still different kelvin output. It gets very ugly. Sometimes the best you can do is to get the guy with the ball white balanced correctly.

The red phase is the worst, because the power output is also lower, messing up the exposure. Murphy's Law dictates that the best shots are usually washed with red.

To minimize the color overload, shoot tight. It cuts down on the number of lights affecting your scene. Telephoto lenses with an aperature wider than 2.8 seem to dampen the effect best. The 135 f2.0 wide open produces noticeably more even wb for me than, for example, the 70-200 at 2.8. In the worst gyms, however, the 200 1.8 is my go-to lens. Open it up to 1.8 and the problem pretty much disappears.



Mar 16, 2016 at 09:54 PM
MRM4
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · White Balance and Light Flicker


Widgic wrote:
First thing you want to do is set a manual white balance at the beginning of your shoot. If the lighting conditions change during the shoot, repeat the manual white balance as needed.

To to the manual white balance, here are a few tips:

  1. Position your white balance target (grey / white card) as close to where you'll be shooting your subject and make it face the direction where you will be shooting from. Why? Because in lot of poorly lit places, the actual ratio of various lights (incandescent vs halogen vs neon vs HID) will change depending on where you are
  2. The your shutter speed to 1/60. Why? Because in the USA the AC frequency is 1/60 second so this way your meter will average over a full cycle of the lights.
  3. Do a few test shots after you did the manual WB to see if you are happy with the results. Since the LCD on your camera is most likely not color calibrated, this will really be based on experience. For example, I know that on my D4 a good white balance looks a little magenta on the camera LCD.


...Show more

Thank you for the great advice. Most people or site that explain how to set custom white balance leave off the part of what the camera's shutter should be when doing this.




Mar 18, 2016 at 03:34 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · White Balance and Light Flicker


I second the gratitude for the explanation. However, after all of the above, isn't setting the white balance a moot point when at faster shutter speeds different segments of the lights cycles produce different colours anyway? When I take 10 images in a burst that all have different colours due to the cycling lights, and I sync WB settings for them all in LR, that doesn't solve the problem. So then how would setting a custom white balance be any better? Not trying to be a pita. Seriously. I'm new to this stuff and I am trying to learn.
Kind regards,
Ralph



Mar 18, 2016 at 04:21 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · White Balance and Light Flicker


Short answer: there is NO silver bullet solution to cycling lights.


Mar 19, 2016 at 07:52 AM
JohnPinette
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · White Balance and Light Flicker


rabbitmountain wrote:
I second the gratitude for the explanation. However, after all of the above, isn't setting the white balance a moot point when at faster shutter speeds different segments of the lights cycles produce different colours anyway? When I take 10 images in a burst that all have different colours due to the cycling lights, and I sync WB settings for them all in LR, that doesn't solve the problem. So then how would setting a custom white balance be any better? Not trying to be a pita. Seriously. I'm new to this stuff and I am trying to learn.
Kind regards,
Ralph


Your WB choices at any venue are auto white balance, or something fixed. Getting a custom white balance is just a way of picking a fixed white balance, and doing it at a slow shutter speed as explained previously is just a way of getting an average white balance. You are absolutely right, this does not help much. The color cast from shot to shot can be off no matter what starting fixed white balance you use. Its also worth giving AWB a try. Within a few shots you can tell if it will do a better job overall than picking a fixed white balance setting.

Either way, the white balance will be off in many of your shots if the lights are color cycling and there's nothing much that can done about it.

John



Mar 22, 2016 at 09:57 AM
Deborah Kolt
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · White Balance and Light Flicker


rabbitmountain wrote:
I second the gratitude for the explanation. However, after all of the above, isn't setting the white balance a moot point when at faster shutter speeds different segments of the lights cycles produce different colours anyway? When I take 10 images in a burst that all have different colours due to the cycling lights, and I sync WB settings for them all in LR, that doesn't solve the problem. So then how would setting a custom white balance be any better? Not trying to be a pita. Seriously. I'm new to this stuff and I am trying to learn.
Kind regards,
Ralph


You're absolutely right, a custom white balance doesn't solve the problem. It only takes care of the frames that match that particular temperature. You still have to correct all the other frames.

I've found that auto white balance is useless, as it can't keep up with the changes and just produces wilder color variations than the lights do on their own. Instead, I use a Sekonic color meter to measure the Kelvin tempertature. By holding down the measure button, you can watch the display change as the temperature varies. I note the extremes and pick a temp somewhere in the middle, which seems to minimize the correction required in either direction.

When correcting wb in frames with a strong red cycle, I get better results adjusting the red green channel first to tone down the overpowering red, then finishing by tweaking the blue yellow. Backwards, but it's easier for my eyes to evaluate and faster to correct. Your mileage may vary.




Mar 29, 2016 at 07:46 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · White Balance and Light Flicker


Thanks to all. I will go and experiment.


Mar 30, 2016 at 08:16 AM
kmhanika
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · White Balance and Light Flicker


I shoot mainly in middle/HS gyms with horrible lighting. It's my understanding that the 7dII anti-flicker only corrects for the dim to bright cycling that occurs. In my opinion, it does a pretty good job correcting that problem. It does not correct for the color changes, however. I have to do that manually.


Mar 31, 2016 at 02:22 PM
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