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Archive 2016 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball

  
 
gschlact
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I haven't shot any sports for about 4 months, definitely felt rusty especially remembering to pump the BBF!


U12 basketball
7dii, 24-70f2.8, 1/800, f2.8, iso16,000
Most cropped to about 4000 pixels on long side then resized to 2100pixels. Resized by website to display here. Shot jpeg with no in-camera NR. LR processed, ~25 Luminance NR, 40 Chroma NR, 9 Clarity, 30 Sharpening but with Mask about 65.

Comments welcome.


1. 2010 Femi
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-2swqTn6/0/XL/IMG_2010_LR-XL.jpg



2. 2064 Judd
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-mGbg9bw/0/XL/IMG_2064_LR-XL.jpg



3. 1953 Zach
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-pCNRSGH/0/XL/IMG_1953_LR-XL.jpg



4. 1821 Ben
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-xPtBMZc/0/XL/IMG_1821_LR-XL.jpg




5. 1970 Max
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-CjrWLcs/0/XL/IMG_1970_LR-XL.jpg


6. 2004 Mason
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/Sports/Zachary/2016-Winter-Full-Package/i-XfRzFSs/0/XL/IMG_2004_LR-XL.jpg



Feb 08, 2016 at 09:00 PM
thebmrust
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


My 200 or 400 ISO daylight images from the 7DmkII coupled with a brand new 70-200 IS vII aren't even this sharp. 😐


Feb 08, 2016 at 10:16 PM
cs3is
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


thebmrust wrote:
My 200 or 400 ISO daylight images from the 7DmkII coupled with a brand new 70-200 IS vII aren't even this sharp. 😐


Nice. I am sure you figured out the reason for that as well.



Feb 09, 2016 at 01:56 PM
cs3is
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Did you shoot this with your ISO set to AUTO



Feb 09, 2016 at 02:05 PM
pattywatty
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I can't imagine having to use ISO at 16,000. The gym must have been very dark? These images look a little hot on my screen - like you could have lowered the ISO and still have plenty of exposure here...


Feb 09, 2016 at 03:05 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I would say a typical High School gym. They had the retrofit light fixtures that converted the old Mercury Halides and replaced each with about 5 short-stick fluorescent bulbs in the original reflector / fixture.

I used the ISO 16,000 to get to the 1/800 speed. In the past, I would shoot 1/400-1/640 but always felt like a slightly higher SS would yield sharpness benefit despite the focal length <70mm. So I decided on 1/800 and was pretty happy with the stop action it provided. There were some that had smear of hand or head-turning motion. (ie: 1/4" motion in 1/1000 second)

I might have gotten away with a 1/3 stop lower ISO, but i think this gave me the best compromise for when the faces where not tilted up.

I actually shot on AWB and was pretty happy. A slight cooling would have been better but overall, pretty easy.

Thanks for looking.



Feb 09, 2016 at 03:09 PM
Yaryman
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Do you mind posting SOOC 100% photo. Not the whole photo, just a cropped portion of the image, but at 100%.


Feb 09, 2016 at 03:42 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I'll give you access to two full size jpegs.
However, looking at detail of a face at 100% radically differs based on zoom. (obviously ;-)
What I am really trying to say, is that if I shot just the upper half of the body in the frame, the face will have 2x more detail than if I shot the whole body since there will be 2x more pixels on the ball or face (face was slightly behind dof). If you want 100% crop to retain facial detail (hairs etc), imho, you need minimally 100 sensor pixels per inch of face. I chose this shot because it was uncropped and was not the full body. The other shots with whole body filling 2/3 of the frame look really bad looking at the face at 100%.

FULL SIZE ORIGINAL JPEGS:
1. MY PROCESSED SHOT:
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-nxDqX9n/0/O/i-nxDqX9n.jpg
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-nxDqX9n/0/O/i-nxDqX9n.jpg ] https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-nxDqX9n/0/O/i-nxDqX9n.jpg [/url]

2. SOOC JPEG (Sharpen 6, Zero NR, Contrast 1):
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-VqtfDrc/0/O/i-VqtfDrc.jpg
https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-VqtfDrc/0/O/i-VqtfDrc.jpg ] https://schlacter.smugmug.com/photos/i-VqtfDrc/0/O/i-VqtfDrc.jpg [/url]



Feb 09, 2016 at 05:26 PM
cs3is
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Looking at the pics. It seems they are at least stop and half over exposed if not one full stop. Your metering may be the culprit here. Other thing is the JPEG compression. I always shoot RAW and images clean much better so i don't have much experience cleaning JPEG compression noise.

In the test shots, did you take into account the Histogram by any chance



Feb 09, 2016 at 11:00 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


cs3is wrote:
Did you shoot this with your ISO set to AUTO


Actually yes with +1/3 EC which wasn't applicable at 16000 as it was the max.



Feb 09, 2016 at 11:46 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


cs3is wrote:
Looking at the pics. It seems they are at least stop and half over exposed if not one full stop. Your metering may be the culprit here. Other thing is the JPEG compression. I always shoot RAW and images clean much better so i don't have much experience cleaning JPEG compression noise.

In the test shots, did you take into account the Histogram by any chance


I am curious, how are you determining / what are you finding indicative of 1 to 1. 5 stops overexposure? I thought the camera was doing a decent job exposing for indirect lit faces and uniforms. I am of the camp that believes in sacrificing highlights to properly expose for the faces. Most of my shots are of the drive/pass/run so faces are not looking upward. So this does lead to some excessive highlights or a little hot face if looking up at the basket. I might have left it on Evaluative metering but usually use Partial. I am on tablet so no exif reader.

As far as noise cleaning of raw vs jpeg, these had in camera NR fully Off as to maintain all possible detail. However is did use a decent amount of sharpening in-camera which is why I use much lower C, Seitz settings than people processing raws. I am not sure whether raw processing fares any better on the luminance noise but doing know why it would fare better?



Feb 10, 2016 at 12:00 AM
pattywatty
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Question - were you in aperture priority, shutter speed priority or manual? I only ask because you mention having to go to 16000 ISO to get the 1/800th of a second shutter speed. I mostly shoot aperture priority except when shooting inside gyms or sports outside at night. Then I shoot manual. I have noticed that when I have tried shooting aperture priority in HS gyms or even at HS stadiums at night, that to get an acceptable shutter speed to stop action requires using a much higher ISO than I really need - maybe it is a metering thing based on certain shooting parameters. But in the end I find that if I shoot manual and key on shutter speed (1/800 or 1/1000) and my aperture (usually max based on lens), that I don't need nearly the level of ISO as I would if shooting in aperture or shutter priority to get a reasonably exposed frame. Plus I take the advantage of the great sensors in the bodies these days and can underexpose a little thus requiring even a little lower ISO and still pull back detail in post....

Just food for thought...



Feb 10, 2016 at 11:07 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I was in Manual + auto ISO + 1/3 EC.
I dialed in the 1/800 as explained above.
Don't most of the non upward looking faces look decently exposed on shots 1,2,4,and 5?



Feb 10, 2016 at 01:44 PM
pattywatty
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


So maybe its the auto ISO that is causing the "hotness" that I'm perceiving on the screen. I think the faces look fine. Was the metering set to spot metering? That would explain in part the backgrounds that appear to be overexposed on my screen. Again, I'm just asking only because I've never had to use that level of ISO in any gym I've shot in. I would close in saying that maybe try full manual and go 2.8 at 1/800th and start ISO at 3000 and work up or down from there and see what the difference might be - you could try just for a few shots and then go back to your settings above and we could compare.

Bottom line is I think you captured some great action - no questioning that at all. I would just hope you could get the same results with a lower ISO and maybe a more balanced exposure....

Thanks for indulging my inquiries



Feb 10, 2016 at 02:53 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Patty, no problem.
If you feel and agree the faces are decently exposed, then there is no, way to reign in the hotness of the ceilings or background walls. Again, I am in the camp of proper face exposure and to heck with blown backgrounds or uniform. I don't want to artificially reshape the Histogram on each one by just pulling down highlights but that would have accomplished a less hot background. I would have had I been printing or something.

I was either on Partial or Evaluative metering. The black informs would have been brightened by the AE, just right for the indirectly lit faces. :-)



Feb 10, 2016 at 06:38 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Exposure of your subjects looks fine. Hot spots are background hot spots that are hard to avoid. Who cares if you did not shoot RAW, and who cares what 100% crops look like? Not me.


Feb 12, 2016 at 11:01 PM
sinbad747
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Makes me want to go out and push my 7DII a little. Thanks for sharing...



Feb 25, 2016 at 10:10 AM
CW100
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


looks good for ISO 16,000



Feb 27, 2016 at 10:06 AM
pjbuehner
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


I don't see the 1.5 overexposure IMO. I also agree with your approach of exposing for the faces. I cannot imagine shooting sports any other way. The only thing that I am unsure of is Auto ISO on the 7DII. I don't see evidence of it here, but I would think that it opens the possibility of the metering getting fooled.
Was the lighting on court so inconsistent that you felt you had to use Auto ISO? Why not straight manual exposure? Just curious.
The shots look good to me. ISO 16000 on a crop sensor...cameras have come a long way.

Cheers,
Peter



Mar 01, 2016 at 10:28 AM
gschlact
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 7dii ISO 16,000 u12 basketball


Peter, I agree, just 7d to 7dii have come a long way for the end results.
As far as auto ISO, most gyms I am in do vary directly under basket where is is a bit darker to more around the key. This gym I probably could have gotten away with fixed ISO. But hey, you agree, auto ISO here did a good job.



Mar 01, 2016 at 11:57 AM
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