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Archive 2016 · Commercial Photography Dilemma

  
 
g-money
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


Going to throw this out there as this is the forum I most visit and I know many of you also do commercial photography as well. Plus we all know this is where the best minds hang out!

I was recently hired by a construction company to take some architecural images of this new building they constructed in our town. They wanted permission to use these images in presentations, publication and power points to show potential clients their work. We settled on exactly what the needed image wise, a time frame and a price.

I delivered the images last night one day ahead of a tight deadline. I get an email this morning and they are thrilled with the images and say and will be processing the invoice Monday.

Then they close by asking do you mind if we share these images with the company they built the building for (Oil Company) as well as the architectural firm who designed the building.

Would I be a fool to not ask for added compensation if these other companies want to use these images for their business or a jerk because they (construction company) already own the images and they are free to use them and give them to whomever they feel. **disclaimer** The Oil Company has also been using me pretty reguarly for head shots and event photography so there is a relationship between me and them I don't want to mess up by being greedy.

As for contract, This is where I probably fall short. I do not have a good commercial contract signed. I basically just stated in the proposal what rights were granted and a lifetime usage for the construction company only. Thanks for any input.

Greg:



Feb 05, 2016 at 10:32 AM
swoop
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


This situation is messed up. As they already have the images. And if they share without your permission. Your only recourse is to bill the oil company separately, or sue.

I would say you were hired by the construction firm to provide them images. Basically they commissioned these photos. They paid all the costs of production so they should be able to share them as they wish. Hopefully that's how you billed them. "Give me $xxxx and I'll make some pictures for you."

On the flip side, the oil company is going to use them for marketing/promotion no different that the construction company will. If you billed the construction company with the intention of licensing the images for X amount of years or using them in XYZ marketing campaign. Then yes. Bill the oil company. Reach out to your contact there and tell them you heard they were interested in using these images and you can license them for $xxxx.

I can't deal with licensing. Especially in this age where sharing the images that you work so hard to make is literally the push of a button and fighting that is a costly and time consuming uphill struggle. Bill with the intention of granting all rights and move on to the next assignment. If you really want to pursue the licensing path then you NEED a contract. You need to spell out that you can use these images for XX years or for XYZ reasons and that it's exclusive or not exclusive to them. If they breach that or want to continue use it's $xxxx fee.

The issue is a lot of the artistic set aren't exactly good business people. It's like these skills/attitudes are completely opposite but it doesn't have to be. These people you're working with didn't get where they are by giving in or letting things slide and being polite. You need to be firm. They likely understand it costs money to make things. Especially in construction because the labor often costs more than the materials. They're paid for their skill and their time and that's what they bring to a job, no different than you.

Edited on Feb 05, 2016 at 11:28 AM · View previous versions



Feb 05, 2016 at 11:12 AM
hendrikm
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


As you do own the copyright and only gave the construction company the usage rights, they should not share them for other commercial purposes. I wouldn´t give them away for free, either.
The question is: Does the construction company allow you to sell "their" images?

I´d send the other companies an invoice of what you had charged for this project and give them a steep rebate as incentive for further work.



Feb 05, 2016 at 11:15 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


The other companies have to pay to use them commercially. If they want to share the low resolution watermarked that's no biggie but for the high resolution for commercial use each client must license individually.


Feb 05, 2016 at 11:18 AM
Littleguy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


When they say “share it” – what exactly are they talking about? Do they mean show it to them in a slideshow / presentation or are they are going to send them the hi-resolution digital file to do as they please with it?

I would think that the first type of sharing would be allowed in their usage clause? The second type would really depend on what the other company does with the photos after they receive them...

But I guess regardless of the sharing type – there is really only 2 ways to look at this:

1) I own the copyright and I will do whatever is necessary to enforce it!
2) How can I leverage this opportunity for future work with these new or old contacts?

How good are you on the upsell and how good are your lawyers on enforcing copyright?



Feb 05, 2016 at 02:13 PM
g-money
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


Good input everyone! I thank you much!

What I did was was add a folder of small resolution watermarked images to our sharded folder. I then emailed the construction manager and explained how I priced this job and my usage was to their company only. If they would like to share to please share the smaller watermarked images I just provided you and explained why.

Surprising I am not the first photographer that they have worked with and he totally understood everything I was saying and that was why he was asking permission before sharing as did not want to just assume I didn't care. Said some photographers don't and others like to handle it like I am. He agreed he would share the watermarked images and provide my contact info should they want to obtain the high rez for their own marketing.

Lesson learned and I knew better I was just to damn busy and on a very tight schedule to try and push a contract through that clearly defines everything. I would never not have one of my wedding clients not sign a contract so why I poo pooed this one off I can't explain. This time it worked out fine, the next one might not. Thanks again!



Feb 05, 2016 at 02:46 PM
friscoron
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Commercial Photography Dilemma



I would say yes, absolutely show them the images! However, if they would to like to use the images, they would need to pay for the usage rights, just as the construction firm did. I see it as an opportunity to make more money without any more work/time.



Feb 05, 2016 at 02:48 PM
flash
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


It depends what you want out of this situation. Do you want more money? If not, don't ask for any. If you do then you need to do this without losing Big Oil. That could be tricky.

Personally I'd not want to screw up my relationship with Big Oil. I've been paid what I agreed to so I should be happy with the money side of it. I would gently explain it would be sharing and not selling. I have a clause in my releases that basically says I must be informed if a company wants to resell my images and I get 50% of any on sale. But you didn't do that.

I would agree for them to share the images with Big Oil and the other guy but I would attach a written usage agreement for each of them with the email. No resale and commercial use for self promotion only with credit.

Gordon



Feb 05, 2016 at 02:53 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Commercial Photography Dilemma


The problem here is that the horse is already out of the barn. Live and learn. This should have all been talked about at the time of the estimate and booking. Since it wasn't this tells me that you are fairly new to the world of new construction and commercial photography in general. The original company that hired you should have been made aware that the photos can be made available to everyone else who worked on the project but for a fee or for a license. What your client's is asking for is very typical in the construction industry. Everyone who has a part in a construction project is a potential customer, the most obvious are the architect and general contractor, but window manufactures, lighting contractors, flooring, etc they can all be interested. If the project is high-end or unique enough then the greater the potential for others being interested in the work that you have produced.

In commercial photography never ever give away your copyrights, spell out from the very beginning exactly what they (the client) will be receiving and how they can use them. This should all be spelled out in the estimate and then again in the final invoice. Before doing weddings, I used to do a significant amount of architectural interiors and exteriors and I often made a nice additional amount of change selling photos to the general contractor as well as the other contractors involved on the project. In most cases my original point of contract was the architect. Photos are extremely import to everyone in the construction industry food chain, it plays a significant role in their efforts to acquire future work. They make big money when they land new work based upon your photos. Therefore, everyone should wants to use them should have to pay to use them. For this reason I totally disagree with the thinking that since the original client paid for all the expenses to produce the work that they should be entitled to do what they want with the photos including give them to other business to use in their marketing and advertising products. That is totally bogus thinking and the very reason why so many commercial shooters are no longer in business. Too many photographers have been too eager to get the quick check and more on.

Depending on your market size you may not want to try and limit usage via licensing but if you are working in markets of 1 million or larger where there are construction projects that are multi-million dollar or larger then you are seriously leaving money on the table by not licensing usage to your work. It can have deep monetary rewards. It does take good paperwork and a knowledge of the industry but it can certainly be worth the effort. This has been the problem for many genre's of commercial photography over the last 10-15 years. Photographers either don't know how or are too lazy and don't want to put in the work. Thus they leave money on the table. In turn this has had a negative effect on everyone's earnings. They just want the quick check and be done with it. But even if you are in a small market, 500,000 or smaller where the photo buyers don't get or understand the whole licensing thing, you should still have no problem charging others in the construction food chain who want to use your photos.



Feb 05, 2016 at 03:08 PM





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