Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2016 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?

  
 
kakomu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


Hi All:

My goal this year is to do more professional photography work. I've recently picked up some professional gear like a 24-70mm f/2.8L and 70-200mm f/2.8L IS. Right now, I own a 6D, which is perfectly adequate for portraiture.

I'm thinking of getting a 7D as a second body. Along with portraiture, I'm thinking of trying my hand at sports shooting. What I'm looking for is some distilled information on the 7D as a sports camera.

I know I can search the through several years of conversation on the 7D, but I've already received plenty of conflicting information. Some pepole claim it's superb and others claim it's sub-par. I'm hoping that the experienced users on here can give me a good overview on the camera as a sports camera.

A friend of mine teaches BJJ and I've asked him to get me media access to the next event so that I can try my hand at photographing MMA. I'm looking for some advice on how well the 7D might perform and what kinds of things I should be on the lookout for.

Thanks in advance.



Jan 30, 2016 at 01:09 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


With pro glass (fast focusing), the 6D should have little trouble; further, the 6D, while a slower continuous shooter, has *far* superior low-light AF and high-ISO performance, both issues you'll likely run into.

My suggestion would be to save up for a 7D II, running about US$1200 refurbished right now (the 7D's are running at about half that). The 7D II has the most advanced AF system Canon has produced to date, including low-light capability, and it's sensor is far cleaner at higher ISOs than the aging first-iteration of Canon's 18MP APS-C sensor in the 7D.


That said, you could very likely 'make it work', and a used/refurbished 7D will certainly get you a higher continuous framerate at a low price with a decent AF system for good light!



Jan 30, 2016 at 01:23 PM
onesickpuppy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


You stated:
A friend of mine teaches BJJ and I've asked him to get me media access to the next event so that I can try my hand at photographing MMA. I'm looking for some advice on how well the 7D might perform and what kinds of things I should be on the lookout for.....

In one aspect the 6D will work real well here, due to its low light strength, and all you will need to do is
concentrate on getting the "shot" at the right moment....instead of spray and pray usage.

Having had a 7D and now have the 7DII, I agree as was mentioned by johnctharp....the second version will
offer a far better AF system than the 6D, better ISO than the first version and a host of features that will
complement your desire for action shooting.

Having the understanding that you may be ring side....the full frame on your 24-70 will work really well for
being ring side, and the 7D (1 or 2) will make that slightly tight at times.

I would encourage you to (if you get access) to try the 6D and see what happens. Take both lenses, as you
don't know yet your position at the event, and you may need the reach of the 70-200. But if you do get in
be ready for the following:

Anticipate the shot....shooting for only the "one" image
Watch for positioning of opponents....and capture the moment (facial and body language)
Don't worry about quantity....work for quality (lighting, framing, angle)
Try to get some shots with the crowd..most promoters really want to show packed house images

Since it will be your first attempt at this style of event, doing the above will reward you greatly and
not frustrate you with all the what if...and if I only....feelings.

And....if you do the event....make sure to post some images and let us enjoy your first event




Jan 30, 2016 at 02:08 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


You should send a PM to FM member RobertLynn. He does a lot of MMA shooting.

P.S. I just sent him a PM. Maybe he'll check in...



Jan 30, 2016 at 02:18 PM
JVthePT
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


If budget is a real issue you may consider looking at a 70d. Not a bad little sports body at all. I've used it for wrestling, swimming, baseball/softball, track, XC, football, etc.


Jan 30, 2016 at 03:01 PM
kakomu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?




JVthePT wrote:
If budget is a real issue you may consider looking at a 70d. Not a bad little sports body at all. I've used it for wrestling, swimming, baseball/softball, track, XC, football, etc.


Doesn't the 70D have the same AF system as the 7D?



Jan 30, 2016 at 03:21 PM
RobertLynn
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


https://roblynn.smugmug.com/Mixed-Martial-Arts

I forget what year the 7D came out, but I used to shoot a lot of MMA with it, when I got mine. I used mine in tandem with a 1DIII and a 40D. I shot my first MMA event with an original 5D and a 30D. I now shoot with a pair of 1DXs and a 1DIV as a backup. Prior to that, I used 5D3s. Before that, I used 1DIVs. You can say, I've used a heck of a lot of the Canon line up to shoot these events.

Your largest problems in an MMA event will be the lighting. I can deal with the cage. I can deal with shooting over a cage. But bad lighting is a major culprit or crappy pictures. Yes, the cameras can focus in "low light" but we know that the focus is a lot more accurate in more favorable conditions.

You'll find promoters that don't light their events well- you'll have them where the lights are different color temps (in the same environment, but not "blended" so to speak)
https://roblynn.smugmug.com/Mixed-Martial-Arts/2014/CDMMA-10-11114-Altoona-PA/i-GFGB9Xq

Look at the difference between the center of the cage here, and the edges
https://roblynn.smugmug.com/Mixed-Martial-Arts/2014/CDMMA-10-11114-Altoona-PA/i-gpDMtmX

Or really RED mats
https://roblynn.smugmug.com/Mixed-Martial-Arts/2014/Pinnacle-112614/i-P4c5xmT

https://roblynn.smugmug.com/Mixed-Martial-Arts/2015/Pinnacle-10-50915/i-kJ3DRsg

Shooting through the cage sort of sucks with a wider lens. I wish I could just shoot a 70-200 all day, but some cages are smaller than others, you've got to use the 24-70...which gets more of the cage in focus...yuck. You'll have a lot of battles with flare, as well as degradation of image quality due to the fence obscuring the lens, especially at higher ISO.

The shutter speed you want is, bare minimum, 1/800. Use your ISO to adjust. Shoot ISO 6400 if you have to. You need the motion stopped. For the fence- get your lens as close as you can to it. Use a hood and practically press the hood up against it. I've seen a lot of photographers get grief from different commissions for their proximity to the cage or other officials. It's important to generate a good rapport with these folks.

Don't bother the officials. Don't try and get them to move for you. Don't spill sodas anywhere, reek of cig smoke, body odor, whatever. Don't wear offensive clothing. Your job as a journalist is to be low key. I wear a shirt with my name on it, and "MEDIA" on the back. I always make sure to secure my credentials and be professional. Sure, you may not be making a pile of money on the gig- but you better bet your ass you're being judged on the way you behave.

I didn't generate the reputation I have by being the best photographer out there; I'm certainly not. I'd be willing to bet Scott Kelby could come to one of my events and whoop my ass with a camera! I generated my reputation as the best MMA photographer in our area based upon my interactions with promoters, commissions, fighters, fans, et cet. That's sort of true- a lot of it had to do with my interactions with training camps. I have trained Judo and JuJitsu for over a decade now. I also happened to be a photographer with the gear to shoot weddings...much the same as you need for MMA. I ended up shooting as press for the 2nd MMA show that was legalized in PA...one I had to pay to get in! (those days are long gone lol). From there I watched how I carried myself. If you piss off a fan, you piss off a promoter. If you piss off the promoter, count on never being back.

Count on other photographers being there and causing you grief. Some just don't know what they don't know. Count on people stealing your photographs. Count on LOSING money doing it. Count on fighters being angry you don't give your work away.

The best thing I can tell you is this- buy the best camera you can afford. I think that one of the best values in a cameras right now is a used 1DMK IV. They shoot ISO 6400 very well and I'd have no problem starting over with them tomorrow.

You can decide how you want to shoot- do you want to be an MMA photographer, a PJ, or an event photographer. In my opinion, they all do something a little different. I have a lot of MMA photographer friends that go apeshit over shooting weigh in pics, stare downs, walk outs. Truth be told- I've sold so few of those. People love the action shots the most. The people that are doing the "cute" things with the gloves on the mat, or fence out of focus...it's like tribal tattoos. Been there, done that. Not needed lol.

Oh...SHOOT RAW. JPG sucks. NO FLASH DURING A FIGHT!!!!!!!

Be prepared to jockey the wheel for a focus point, for settings (ISO) when you're in challenging situations too!

Be prepared to hate your first few gigs...and every gig after.

But have a blast doing it!!!




Jan 30, 2016 at 04:59 PM
kakomu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


Well, based on the feedback I've been getting, I think I'll just get take the plunge and get a 7D2. As mentioned above, I'm going to try to do more professional work with my photography, so at the very least, I can probably write this off on my taxes at the end of the year.

Thanks for the info!



Jan 30, 2016 at 05:27 PM
timgangloff
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


I shot with a 7d for a very short time. Hated it. I'd rather have a 7d2, 1d4, a 1d3 or 1dmk2n. Not sure where these bodies fall in with your budget, but the 7d had terrible noise compared to these other bodies. And as Robert stated, indoor sports can be some of the most difficult to shoot. Throw in high speed low light and you will have issues and I think the 7d will magnify those. But, I am a biased 7d hater.


Jan 30, 2016 at 05:38 PM
GC5
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?



I much preferred the 1DIII to the 7D. I ended up keeping my 1DIII over my 7D2 also. For indoor sports, though, you are really going to want something full frame for better high ISO performance. If you are going to stretch for the 7d2, consider ditching the 6d (which is fabulous except for the single card slot and the paltry focus options) and picking up a 5D3.



Jan 30, 2016 at 05:50 PM
Tareq
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


GC5 wrote:
I much preferred the 1DIII to the 7D. I ended up keeping my 1DIII over my 7D2 also. For indoor sports, though, you are really going to want something full frame for better high ISO performance. If you are going to stretch for the 7d2, consider ditching the 6d (which is fabulous except for the single card slot and the paltry focus options) and picking up a 5D3.




"I ended up keeping my 1DIII over my 7D2 also"

So why is that?



Jan 30, 2016 at 06:06 PM
Milan Hutera
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


Just my 2, probably unrelated, cents, that probably has little to do with the camera(s) in question...

From what I understand, you're just starting out in sports photography - IE you probably know the "theory" to produce adequate pictures, but lack practical experience. I don't know what this MMA is, but from what I've read here in this thread, it appears to be some sort of pro fighting, in a cage, held indoors under the lights. IMHO, you couldn't have picked the worse thing as your first gig. First - the lights (or lack of) are often a big problem. The low light will have a severe impact on AF accuracy even on 1 series camera. Not to mention the scenarios where you'd like to use 6D's outer points (I use outer points exclusively and never use center point, because the head/eyes are almost never in the center of the frame). Second - your view is blocked by a cage. Again, this might seriously affect the AF accuracy and will be the source of frustration because "it is always in the way". Third - and I could be wrong on this, but any sort of boxing/fighting is often very unpredictable (unless you have some previous experience). You'd probably have lots of problems keeping up with the fighters. So it might be a good idea to visit a practice match or something like that before the actual event. I don't know if they do something like this, but it might prepare you a little for "the real deal". You'll have a better idea what to expect, how is your AF accuracy, and if you're actually able to get any pictures that you consider to be technically and aestetically good.



Jan 30, 2016 at 06:37 PM
kakomu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


Milan Hutera wrote:
You'd probably have lots of problems keeping up with the fighters. So it might be a good idea to visit a practice match or something like that before the actual event. I don't know if they do something like this, but it might prepare you a little for "the real deal". You'll have a better idea what to expect, how is your AF accuracy, and if you're actually able to get any pictures that you consider to be technically and aestetically good.


I understand where you're coming from. The event is amateur, I probably won't charge much, if anything for any photos I take and I'll be using this as practice and experience. I'm also gathering up all of the calendars to local sports for practice/experience.



Jan 30, 2016 at 06:47 PM
GC5
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?



I liked the 1 series build and the 1d was actually much less expensive. I didn't find the high Iso of the 7d2 to be a ton better and I usually shoot with my 6d (or recently a d4) when shooting indoor sports as they are clearly superior for high iso noise. If I were shooting BIF I would have kept the 7D2 where the new AF and reach would have mattered more. It's an awesome camera.

Tareq wrote:
"I ended up keeping my 1DIII over my 7D2 also"

So why is that?




Jan 30, 2016 at 07:08 PM
Tareq
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


GC5 wrote:
I liked the 1 series build and the 1d was actually much less expensive. I didn't find the high Iso of the 7d2 to be a ton better and I usually shoot with my 6d (or recently a d4) when shooting indoor sports as they are clearly superior for high iso noise. If I were shooting BIF I would have kept the 7D2 where the new AF and reach would have mattered more. It's an awesome camera.






Jan 30, 2016 at 07:16 PM
JVthePT
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?




kakomu wrote:
Doesn't the 70D have the same AF system as the 7D?


I think they're similar but the 70d has the same button layout as the 6d and they compliment each other very, very well. I also think the 70d did a better job with noise.



Jan 30, 2016 at 10:56 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


JVthePT wrote:
I think they're similar but the 70d has the same button layout as the 6d and they compliment each other very, very well. I also think the 70d did a better job with noise.


The advantage of the 70D is that you get a better sensor, and nearly the framerate of the 7D II; I skipped recommending it, however, because it has the same basic AF module (minus a few options) as the 7D and thus isn't going to grab focus as well in lower light as a 6D's center point or many of the 7D II's points.




Jan 30, 2016 at 11:28 PM
Paul Mo
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


MMA

1: No flash - whatsoever
2: Senior photogs get first pick of positions
3: Lighting can range from tragic (WTF) to great
4: Cage can/will mess with AF - you may at times be switching between AF and MF
5: You may have to crank the ISO - and learn proccesing tricks
6: Tight work space - learn what works best - belt packs, minimal gear
7: Amateur shooters moving from 'access to pay' will depend on quality of work plus openings in the promotion - many promotions are already flooded with photogs.
8: Have a decent meal beforehand - some cards go on quite late
9: Claim your space and don't surrender it when fans close in on the cage - you'll lose your position; act like you belong.
10: Be modest and work hard

5D3's and 7D2's are a great, reasonably affordable MMA bodies.



Jan 30, 2016 at 11:55 PM
Al Goldis
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


kakomu wrote:
I know I can search the through several years of conversation on the 7D, but I've already received plenty of conflicting information. Some pepole claim it's superb and others claim it's sub-par.


I think both are correct in a way. Functionally, the 7D is superb, but its image quality is sub-par.

Your 6D has better image quality than just about anything out there. Also, its center point focus works better in low light than just about anything else. The most obvious limitation of the 6D is the frame rate but it also lacks AF flexibility compared to higher-end cameras.

You can get the high frame rate with a less expensive alternative but unless you want pay to upgrade to a 1Dx, I think you may already have the best tool for the job (assuming "the job" is always ultra low light).



Jan 31, 2016 at 12:26 AM
dhphoto
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Budget Sports Shooting - 7D?


kakomu wrote:
Doesn't the 70D have the same AF system as the 7D?


The 70D's is a much simplified version without many features including the ability to select an AF point and have the surrounding points help, that's a shame IMO but otherwise the 70D isn't bad.

The OP says he is on a budget. I have a 7D and if you can keep the ISO's down to about 1600 or lower I think it would do you very well. It's easy to remove a bit of noise from the RAW files and the body is strong fast and accurate



Jan 31, 2016 at 04:05 AM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.