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Archive 2016 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions

  
 
TheEyesHaveIt
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


Gary Clennan wrote:
I think you have this the wrong way around....


I meant in terms of sensor stats - RX1II objectively wins there (more MP, better dynamic range, less noise, etc.). But photography is so much more than the sensor



Apr 18, 2017 at 12:50 AM
millsart
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


I suppose it really comes down to the end usage of the images. I'd certainly go with a RX1I if my intent was making large prints as it does have the better spec'd sensor, however, if large print output was my goal, I'd probably use a a7rII over the RXII, so its rather horses for courses.

I've certainly seen some amazing landscape shots with the RXII so it can do the task well, but I'd rather have a 16-35 on a A7rII for some framing versatility, if my photography pursuits were landscape focused.

As it stands, and for my intended style of photography, and typical output, the Q is more than "good enough" in terms of IQ, just as my earlier RX1 was. For my needs, there was zero need to upgrade from the RX1 in terms of IQ as that was never a letdown. The lack of EVF, the slow AF etc were where the camera sometimes fell short.

The Q simply works, day or night, indoors or out, in the same consistent manner ie; fast and accurate each and every time. That really is what makes me keep it, despite the large investment and lots of other gear I could buy instead with sale proceeds lol.

With the Q I don't have to really even think about the AF as its always spot on. I also don't think about the ISO or stopping down the lens for better sharpness etc.

Its generally just either a) I want subject isolation and shoot at f1.7, or b) I want everything in focus and shoot at f8 or f11. Might apply a touch of EC if needed, though the camera meters really well. Need to move the AF point around ? Just touch the screen and drag the AF box.

In a way the Q is the most stupid simple camera I've owned (short of a real M I suppose). My cameras like the RX100 series have 10x the features and menu options, which can be nice, but also can complicate shooting at times.

The Q simply takes pictures (and good ones at that) which is part of its appeal I suppose....



Apr 18, 2017 at 10:10 AM
RoseandCharles
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


The problem with both Sony RX series and Leica Q: NO WEATHER SEALING.

They made $3000+ "compact" size cameras with FF sensors... and did not offer weather sealing.

I have this same problem with the Fuji X100 series, the Sigma DP, etc. Why make a product meant for lightweight travel, putting in purses/pockets, and then leave out a great feature that makes it more dust-resistant, durable and usable in inclement weather?

Of course, maybe it's part of planned product obsolescence.



Apr 18, 2017 at 05:26 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


The lack of weather sealing is a big deal. If you want your RX1RII to last, extra care is needed.


Apr 18, 2017 at 06:41 PM
millsart
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


I've spent a few decades shooting cameras in all sorts of conditions, none of which were weather sealed, and everything has always been just fine.... I do have a true waterproof compact for when I go into the ocean though, and a GoPro


I think WR is really more of a marketing driven 'lifestyle' feature, in the same way "go anywhere" SUV's were in though 95% of the buyers never had a need to take them anywhere more than a gravel parking lot.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it hurts to have it (though how truly weather resistant bodies are I'm sometimes not sure) but people have been shooting outdoor photogs for a long, long time and its never been that big of problem.

How many of us really stand in the rain to take pictures ?

I've owned an Olympus E-M1 for a few years, one of the most WR bodies out there, and honestly can't think of anytime I've wanted to go shoot in the rain, or wash my camera off in the kitchen sink et al.

Certainly some peoples needs are different than mine, but how many Q or RX1 owners really want to go stand in a downpour and take pictures ? Or go splashing into the ocean with the camera ?

Even if you don't mind physically getting soaked, keeping the lens dry, and actually being able to take pictures for more than 30 seconds is a far bigger concern.

I say if you want a compact little imaging tool you can toss about, dunk in the water etc, get a GoPro for a few hundred bucks. Its designed for just that.

High end fixed lens compacts likely appeal to a market that likes to stay dry



Apr 18, 2017 at 08:07 PM
RoseandCharles
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


millsart wrote:
I've spent a few decades shooting cameras in all sorts of conditions, none of which were weather sealed, and everything has always been just fine.... I do have a true waterproof compact for when I go into the ocean though, and a GoPro

I think WR is really more of a marketing driven 'lifestyle' feature, in the same way "go anywhere" SUV's were in though 95% of the buyers never had a need to take them anywhere more than a gravel parking lot.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it hurts to have it (though how truly weather resistant bodies
...Show more

It's not just about rain, but about putting it in a pocket/purse with dust/lint that can get into the lens. Once it's inside, it's incredibly difficult to get back out. I've had a few compact cameras get this issue.

Also had experience weekend before last where it wasn't raining, but mist spray from a large waterfall got on the camera nonetheless. There are many who would take photos at beaches/near bodies of water.

If someone didn't care about image quality they'd just shoot with the smartphone nowadays... and there are plenty of those that are waterproof or at least water resistant.



Apr 18, 2017 at 08:31 PM
robgo2
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


I hate this thread! It's recent revival got me thinking about how I almost never use my RX1 anymore, because of its weak autofocus, awful manual focus and generally slow operation. Yet I really loved it for its compactness and fabulous IQ. It is just so damned easy to carry that camera around on my wrist for an entire day. If I want to have a more useable camera like that again, my choices amongst the FF offerings are two--an RX1Rii and a Leica Q. The former has improved AF over the RX1, but still nothing to boast about. Also, its 42MP of resolution are more than I need. The latter has both great AF and MF, a superior EVF, and it hits what is for me the resolution sweet spot of 24MP. However, it has a 28mm lens vs the RX1Rii's 35mm lens. I'm pretty sure that I can be happy with 28mm as a regular walk-around focal length, although I prefer 35mm.

So what to do? After after a deep dive into the internet and the reading the many rapturous reviews from users, as well as some professionals, I pulled the trigger and bought a used one off the B&S board for a reasonable price. Ming Thein's review in particular is the one that convinced me to go for the Q. If I love it, I will be putting my RX1 (still in excellent condition) up for sale. If not, it will be the Q that will return to the B&S board. I've got my fingers crossed.

Rob


Edited on Apr 18, 2017 at 11:21 PM · View previous versions



Apr 18, 2017 at 09:29 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


robgo2 wrote:
The former has improved AF over the RX1, but still nothing to boast about.


Just for the record, there's nothing to complain about regarding the RX1Rii's AF. Have you actually tried it?



Apr 18, 2017 at 10:10 PM
seanj
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


I have an RX1RII on the way. I have an FE 28 and Voigtlander Norton 35/1.2 II on my A7RII and I easily choose 35 over 28. Sure, there are good arguments for the Q, but I can't imagine being disappointed with either option. So focal length is key to me. I can pair it with my 14 Samyang or a portrait lens and wear my rx1rii on my neck and A7RII on my blackrapid shoulder sling to be ready for all my needs (or simply the rx1rii alone for 70% of my shooting).


Apr 18, 2017 at 10:38 PM
robgo2
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


Jeff Kott wrote:
Just for the record, there's nothing to complain about regarding the RX1Rii's AF. Have you actually tried it?


No I have not, but I have read reports from users that it remains sluggish, although it is improved from the RX1. In any event, there seems to be fairly broad consensus that it is not close to the Q in terms of speed and accuracy.

Rob



Apr 18, 2017 at 11:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


robgo2 wrote:
No I have not, but I have read reports from users that it remains sluggish, although it is improved from the RX1. In any event, there seems to be fairly broad consensus that it is not close to the Q in terms of speed and accuracy.

Rob


I don't find the RX1RII AF sluggish and EyeAF is just as accurate/fast as with my A7RII + fast lens.
It's way better than the original RX1/R. My only complain about the RX1RII is price but IMO if compactness and high IQ is the main goal, it's definitely worth it.



Apr 18, 2017 at 11:22 PM
robgo2
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't find the RX1RII AF sluggish and EyeAF is just as accurate/fast as with my A7RII + fast lens.
It's way better than the original RX1/R. My only complain about the RX1RII is price but IMO if compactness and high IQ is the main goal, it's definitely worth it.


I cannot dispute what you say, Fred, having never tested the RX1RII myself. I was just repeating what I had read elsewhere. That said, I never enjoyed the handling and ergonomics of my RX1, and I don't know if that aspect has changed much with the speedier Mark II version. In contrast, one of the near constants that one finds in reviews of the Q is how much people love using the camera and how it inspires them to go out shooting with it. I can't say that I ever felt that way about my RX1, even though it gave me many great images. As I said previously, I will find out for myself if it really is that good.

Rob



Apr 18, 2017 at 11:59 PM
Chris_88
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


Having owned the rx1rii for quite a while, then having to sell it to fund other GAS-related purchases, and now thinking about getting another one, I never had the feeling that it was slow or inaccurate. In one or two instances with very little available light, it struggled to nail focus, but that was it. The only things that bugged me were the sunstars and sometimes the flare. The Loxia 35 or the 35 zm are superior in these two categories.

Handling and ergonomics is one thing and quite subjective if you ask me (how big are your hands, do you need/want a grip, etc.). I understand everybody has different needs/preferences. I always liked the compact size and the ergonomics.



Apr 19, 2017 at 07:50 AM
RoseandCharles
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


robgo2 wrote:
I cannot dispute what you say, Fred, having never tested the RX1RII myself. I was just repeating what I had read elsewhere. That said, I never enjoyed the handling and ergonomics of my RX1, and I don't know if that aspect has changed much with the speedier Mark II version. In contrast, one of the near constants that one finds in reviews of the Q is how much people love using the camera and how it inspires them to go out shooting with it. I can't say that I ever felt that way about my RX1, even though it gave
...Show more


It could also just be the Leica red dot. I would imagine that spending more to get worse performance would probably make people hype up the "intangibles" that much more. The "shooting experience" where you just "love" the "superior brand" camera that is technically worse in specs and has the same angle of view as almost every smartphone cameras nowadays.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#625,638,ha,t

Looking at the bodies, I see similar number of dials on both cameras, larger body/lens combo on the Q and smaller body/lens on the RX1RII, and fixed screen vs tilting screen.

But different strokes for different folks, and people have different opinions. OVF vs EVF, analog vs. digital, mirror vs. mirrorless, and there are fervent, passionate advocates on either side.



Apr 19, 2017 at 09:32 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


robgo2 wrote:
I cannot dispute what you say, Fred, having never tested the RX1RII myself. I was just repeating what I had read elsewhere. That said, I never enjoyed the handling and ergonomics of my RX1, and I don't know if that aspect has changed much with the speedier Mark II version. In contrast, one of the near constants that one finds in reviews of the Q is how much people love using the camera and how it inspires them to go out shooting with it. I can't say that I ever felt that way about my RX1, even though it gave
...Show more

Ergonomics suffer a bit for the RX1 series because it's so compact. Sony's goal was to design a camera with the highest IQ (sensor/lens) while keeping it as small as possible. They succeeded and there is really nothing like it on the market. However, if ergonomics and shooting experience is more important than ultimate IQ and size, the RX1RII quickly loses its attractiveness.

I find that the thumb grip helps tremendously with ergonomics while not adding any size to the camera.
The new built-in EVF is an amazing feat and provides a very similar experience I get with my A7RII. It seems that Sony answered all shortcomings of the previous RX1 models. I would suggest renting one before making any decision.



Apr 19, 2017 at 09:45 AM
robgo2
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


RoseandCharles wrote:
It could also just be the Leica red dot. I would imagine that spending nearly $1k more to get worse performance would probably make people hype up the "intangibles" that much more. The "shooting experience" where you just "love" the "superior brand" camera that is technically worse in specs and has the same angle of view as almost every smartphone cameras nowadays. How inspirational is the same angle of view as every other 28mm lens? It is one of the reasons I couldn't get myself to really love the FE 28 and don't shoot often with smartphones.

But different strokes for
...Show more

Look, I am totally open to being wrong about my choice of the Q over the RX1RII. I haven't even received the camera yet. And if I am wrong, the choice is not irreversible. However, I am fairly confident that the user experience will be different, given the Q's better handling, superior EVF, lightening fast AF, and straightforward menus. As far as focal length is concerned, that is a matter of personal taste. 28mm has both advantages and disadvantages compared to 35mm, and it is the FL used frequently by some eminent street photographers (e.g. Alex Webb.) And the fact that 28mm is the same FL as cell phone cameras means absolutely nothing in terms of artistic creativity. Just think of the legions of 35 and 50mm camera lens shooters over the years. Isn't there a certain sameness to their images, yet who really cares?

Now, does the red dot sway users to overrate their cameras and lenses? In some cases, yes, but in others it may raise expectations to a level that is not actually reached and thus results in disappointment. Finally, technical specifications are not the only determining factor in image quality. Sometimes, lenses and cameras with lower specs deliver more pleasing IQ than those with higher ones. How else to explain the fact that so many FM members lust after technically imperfect older lenses? That world is not for everyone, but its denizens are, for the most part, very astute.

I really do not want to engage in a debate over which camera is better. Both are undoubtedly great, and its up to users to get the most out of them.

Rob

Edited on Apr 19, 2017 at 01:57 PM · View previous versions



Apr 19, 2017 at 10:07 AM
robgo2
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


Fred Miranda wrote:
Ergonomics suffer a bit for the RX1 series because it's so compact. Sony's goal was to design a camera with the highest IQ (sensor/lens) while keeping it as small as possible. They succeeded and there is really nothing like it on the market. However, if ergonomics and shooting experience is more important than ultimate IQ and size, the RX1RII quickly loses its attractiveness.

I find that the thumb grip helps tremendously with ergonomics while not adding any size to the camera.
The new built-in EVF is an amazing feat and provides a very similar experience I get with my A7RII. It
...Show more

Too late, Fred. As mentioned above, I already pulled the trigger in a Q. We shall see how it works out for me.

Rob




Apr 19, 2017 at 01:21 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


robgo2 wrote:
Too late, Fred. As mentioned above, I already pulled the trigger in a Q. We shall see how it works out for me.

Rob

I see.
You can still rent the RX1RII for a few days while having the Q and test them side by side. You will be able to know for sure which camera will better complement your photography.



Apr 19, 2017 at 03:47 PM
sebboh
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p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


RoseandCharles wrote:
It's not just about rain, but about putting it in a pocket/purse with dust/lint that can get into the lens. Once it's inside, it's incredibly difficult to get back out. I've had a few compact cameras get this issue.

Also had experience weekend before last where it wasn't raining, but mist spray from a large waterfall got on the camera nonetheless. There are many who would take photos at beaches/near bodies of water.

If someone didn't care about image quality they'd just shoot with the smartphone nowadays... and there are plenty of those that are waterproof or at least water resistant.


i shoot with the rx1 classic in the rain all the time. i also stick it in my wife's purse, my bags, and my coat pockets. after 4 or so years, no issues with dust or water damage (knock on wood). it's certainly not something i'd want to drop in water (though i have taken it in the pool a few times), but i would not be terribly worried about dust or water except in extreme circumstances. it doesn't seem near as prone to sucking in dust as p&s cameras with zooms, but i've certainly heard that it does happen occasionally to people.

compared to the Q, the rx1 has a definite size advantage as well as lens advantage to my eyes, but the Q is clearly a more ergonomic camera.




Apr 19, 2017 at 05:04 PM
robgo2
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p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · Leica Q vs Sony RX1rII - My in depth impressions


sebboh wrote:
i shoot with the rx1 classic in the rain all the time. i also stick it in my wife's purse, my bags, and my coat pockets. after 4 or so years, no issues with dust or water damage (knock on wood). it's certainly not something i'd want to drop in water (though i have taken it in the pool a few times), but i would not be terribly worried about dust or water except in extreme circumstances. it doesn't seem near as prone to sucking in dust as p&s cameras with zooms, but i've certainly heard that it does happen
...Show more

I had dust on my RX1 sensor and had to send it in for cleaning.

The smaller size of the RX1 is a double-edged sword: It makes the camera easier to carry but at the same time harder to hold and use, which is an ergonomic issue. There are always tradeoffs.

Rob



Apr 19, 2017 at 06:12 PM
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