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Archive 2015 · Color Depth

  
 
rw11
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Color Depth


I'm interested in camera (sensor) comparisons, but not sure where to post, so I'm trying here.

When I compare several different cameras I've owned in the past there are some significant differences in the subjective appearance and appeal of the images. Some, but only some, can de attributed to dynamic range, so I' interested in the effect of color depth...

At the lowest level, I used to have a pocket camera, a Canon S90 - dxoMark gives a color depth of 20 bits.
- the images were pretty flat and unappealing
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/PowerShot-S90

A DX sensor DSLR, the Nikon D5100, has a color depth of 23.5 bits.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Nikon/D5100

A full frame sensor Nikon body (D610) has just a bit better color depth of 25.1
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Nikon/D610

The images form the D610 seem much more "alive", more interesting and "full" than those with the D5100. I cannot attribute this to noise or to DR, so I was thinking maybe it is the color depth. But comparing the color depth, it is not a lot more.

Any thoughts?



Dec 30, 2015 at 03:34 PM
Mr Mouse
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Color Depth


Most sensors have 12 or 14 bit luminosity sensing. In reality sensors do not capture color. Color is filtered by color filter on top of camers sensor. Software converts mosaic images into RGB image in camera and in RAW converters. RAW converter will convert the 12 or 14 bit lumionsity values into 8bit or 16 bit color valuse in any color space you want. You want a sensor that captures high quality pixels. Where high ISO settings have well controlled noise. What you want is a good sensor, Firmware and lens. The sensor is just part of the total picture.

If sensor have higer then 14 bit values RAW converters will only produce 8bit or 16bit color images. HDR precessing will use 32bit color depth. Most Color Printer only support 8Bit color. Some Displays have 10bit also call 30 bit color support. Only some Display drivers support the 10 or 30 bit color for displays that can use it.



Dec 30, 2015 at 11:59 PM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Color Depth


Hi rw11
I think you are reading too much into this particular measurement. Here is the description from DxOMark:
Portrait photography: Color Depth Flash studio photography involves a controlled and usually maximal amount of light. Even when shooting with hand-held cameras, studio photographers rarely move from the lowest ISO setting. What matters most when shooting products or portraits is to aim for the richest color rendition. The best image quality metric that correlates with color depth is color sensitivity. Color sensitivity indicates to what degree of subtlety color nuances can be distinguished from one another, often meaning a hit or a miss on a pantone palette. Maximum color sensitivity reports, in bits, the number of colors that the sensor is...Show more

So basically this is color resolution or ability to distinguish between subtle variations which is totally different than that saturation and/or color gamut of a particular image. I suggest backing up and asking what are the most important characteristics you need in a camera or ask for advice on a broader basis. Focusing at low level details of a specific benchmark may help you see the "trees", yet I think you might be missing the "forest" or big picture.

Just my opinion.



Dec 31, 2015 at 01:00 AM
rw11
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Color Depth


I am trying to determine which species of trees make up the forests I see.

The images form the D610 seem much more "alive", more interesting and "full" than those with the D5100. I cannot attribute this to noise or to DR, so I was thinking maybe it is the color depth. But comparing the color depth, it is not a lot more.



Dec 31, 2015 at 02:22 PM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Color Depth


Hi rw11
You started out talking about sensor comparisons yet you also talk about comparing images from two different cameras.

Unfortunately comparing two pictures side by side to pick a camera body is extremely difficult because of the chain of other factors involved e.g.:
FX vs DX format, exposure/camera settings used, Raw vs JPEG, Lens used and lens settings, was scene/lighting the same for both, cropping of image, post processing used (big factor and almost guaranteed to be different), and are you viewing the images the same way side by side on a monitor or in controlled common lighting situation.

Personally, most Nikon and Canon camera bodies in the semi-professional arean are all really good with different characteristics and I would not be making a decision on which one to chose by just comparing images side by side given the above mentioned reasons of unmatched flow from camera body to print (or image on monitor).

I suggest you might be better off identifying what you want out of the camera the most for a given price point and ask which camera forum members recommend. You might get a richer more meaningful discussion that comparing the nuances of small differences of a single technical parameter.

Just a suggestion.



Jan 01, 2016 at 11:35 AM
rw11
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Color Depth


No post, just using 2 different bodies side-by-side on the exact same scene, properly exposed, viewed on the same monitor, no cropping

this is NOT an attempt to decide what to buy - this is a comparison of bodies I already own(ed), and an attempt to understand the subjective differences



Jan 01, 2016 at 02:52 PM
gdsf2
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Color Depth


In my experience, the lens makes a big difference. Some glass looks very flat and some glass makes an image look more 3d. I think a lot of this has to do with contrast (or microcontrast).


Jan 01, 2016 at 03:02 PM
John Wheeler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Color Depth


Hi rww11
Maybe sharing the two images and the conditions for each might be helpful in understanding the differences between the two setups e.g.
1) Are you comparing JPEGs right out of the camera or Raw images put through a Raw processing? JPEG images are typically not processed the same among different camera bodies
2) Are the images taken from the same position of the same scene to maintain the same perspective? (your prior post indicates that you are)
3) Assuming #2 is true, to get the same angle of view for the two images, between an FX and DX format camera body, I would assume you using a longer lens (or lens setting on a zoom) for the FX body (1.5X longer for Nikon FX bodies than DX bodies)
4) Given #2 and #3, to create the same depth of field, you would need an Aperture setting 1.5X that used on the DX body e.g. if the DX lens setting was set at F 1/4 then the setting for the FX body would need to be F 1/6
5) The of course with #2, #3, and #4 then either shutter speed or the ISO would need to be changed due to the aperture change to have the same exposure.

I would consider the above to be a starting point to make sure there is the same perspective, angle of view, depth of field, and exposure for the two images. If the above steps were not taken, then there would some mismatches in some of the characteristics just mentioned.

Even with the above steps to match characteristics of the shot, you certainly could have some differences to consider. Those differences can have a variety of sources which could be discussed (and some already discussed such as lens quality)

Again, it would be helpful to see the images in question and the information about the lenses and settings (focal length, aperature, shutter speed, ISO for both images)

Hope this is of some help and I am pretty sure the parameters I set to match characteristics are correct (though I did do that from memory).



Jan 01, 2016 at 05:41 PM





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