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Archive 2015 · Overcoming Baldness

  
 
beavens
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Overcoming Baldness


So I encountered a number of completely bald skies while out in AZ, but you know you gotta shoot anyway cause your options are limited with trip stuff.

99% baldness here - does this shot still have any merit?

Hoping to get the eyes to see the first two buttes on left and work their way down the basin to Bryce Canyon in the background.

Yay? Nay?

Cheers,

Jeff







Dec 21, 2015 at 10:07 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Overcoming Baldness


sooc ?


Dec 21, 2015 at 10:09 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Overcoming Baldness


Yay.
I think BW works better with empty sky and its of course a good option for images that are all about texture. Don't know what the color looked like but for my taste, I might experiment with the color mix to see if there is an option to darken the sky, or consider a bit of exposure gradient.
I like the image but would also consider burning down some of the darker tones in the foreground for balance, a bit more depth and a richer look.
Clever title to the thread!

Scott



Dec 21, 2015 at 10:11 PM
beavens
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Overcoming Baldness


RustyBug wrote:
sooc ?


HDR blend - whatcha want? One of the exposures or premono conversion?

.edit Was wrong on this! Not HDR - SOOC coming up!
---------------------------------------------

sbeme wrote:
Yay.
I think BW works better with empty sky and its of course a good option for images that are all about texture. Don't know what the color looked like but for my taste, I might experiment with the color mix to see if there is an option to darken the sky, or consider a bit of exposure gradient.
I like the image but would also consider burning down some of the darker tones in the foreground for balance, a bit more depth and a richer look.
Clever title to the thread!

Scott


Thanks, Scott! I definitely want this to have a nice feeling of depth and I don't feel like I'm quite there.

Jeff







Dec 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Overcoming Baldness


+1 @ gradient sky in mono.


Dec 21, 2015 at 10:41 PM
beavens
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Overcoming Baldness


Added gradient!







Dec 21, 2015 at 10:53 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Overcoming Baldness


The original capture was about as bad as it gets..
Plain, blue sky and way, way too much of it
Centered composition
Horrid, mid day lighting
Not much going for the composition. No leading lines or center of attention
No drama, no mood, no emphasis

There is a point where you should not take the picture and where post processing is not going to make up for all of the issues. This one is close to it.

I rarely like B&W and in this case do not see it as a fix to the issues. I did a little post processing to try to at least turn the original into a memory shot. This is a very quick fix but at least gives the idea of the direction I would use when processing the original raw file.









Dec 22, 2015 at 12:02 AM
oldrattler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Overcoming Baldness


I added some contrast & cropped the left side & top.







Dec 22, 2015 at 01:20 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Overcoming Baldness


There's the Jim we all know and love. I was starting to think you were getting soft on us Jim! <--- (said with loving affection and sarcasm)

Jeff, it hurts but Jim does point out the many things you had going against you on this shot. I suspect that you were already aware of many of these things based on your OP image and where you went with it. As you already stated, when you're on a vac trip like this you don't always have the luxury of time to plan out and stalk many golden hour locations. You just have to do the best you can with the light you have sometimes. And the plain blue sky goes right along with it. You can't control what mother nature hands us.

With that said, I agree that a 16:9 aspect ratio would work best on this image if you want the larger scene as others have shown. You'll want to loose as much of that sky as possible yet retain a nice composition. I played around with it and that ratio feels like the best option to me for the larger scene. However, I think you idea in your original image makes it much more inviting as long as your ok with loosing all those pixels.

Based on your OP image, I'd say you are heading in the right direction. That's one hell of a lot of missing pixels though. As long as you have the pixels to get your final result that's all that matters right now. As Jim pointed out, a much better composition in camera would have given you something much better to play with.

I know landscapes are fairly new to you but rest assured you are not alone when confronted with a scene like this. I know I struggle with finding a good composition when the entire vista is simply jaw dropping like this place. I suspect that if you had much more time to spend there you would have nailed several shots.

Ahhh... Vacations. Aren't they great!

Oh... And I say yay to your original B&W image with the ideas folks are suggesting.

Dave



Dec 22, 2015 at 10:47 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Overcoming Baldness


Bald sky's. Heck if it were not for bald sky's I would be finished. I have been to almost every place I want to photograph and the main reason I need to go back is because I had bald sky's, in all my previous images. In fact I just showed one where I used a composite from different places and different years.

What many people do is point the camera at some textured rocks that do not contain sky. That's the picture I will not bother with.

I always take the picture I came for, and if the sky is bald, I work on composition so that the next time I will be in the best position.

Now I understand we can't always get back to a place, especially if very long travel is required. Not much you can do about that. It's the bane of landscaping.





Dec 22, 2015 at 10:54 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Overcoming Baldness


ben egbert wrote:
Now I understand we can't always get back to a place, especially if very long travel is required. Not much you can do about that. It's the bane of landscaping.


Ain't that the truth. And then couple that with a mere 5-10 minute window in the morning and again in the evening and it makes it extremely difficult to nail that perfect shot.

Hmmm... the more I think about it, the more I think I'll just stick with shooting critters.
Still need good light but at least bald sky's don't come into play. Too much.

Dave



Dec 22, 2015 at 11:47 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Overcoming Baldness


lighthound wrote:
Ain't that the truth. And then couple that with a mere 5-10 minute window in the morning and again in the evening and it makes it extremely difficult to nail that perfect shot.

Hmmm... the more I think about it, the more I think I'll just stick with shooting critters.
Still need good light but at least bald sky's don't come into play. Too much.

Dave


At least you know where to find a landscape, it never moves, but critters bring a whole other set of problems in finding them with good settings and light. Also have to find them at the right tome of year and doing something interesting.

When I lived in Spokane, I had a wetland 20 minutes from home and Bald Eagles this time of year 45 minutes away.



Dec 22, 2015 at 12:20 PM
beavens
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Overcoming Baldness


Camperjim wrote:
The original capture was about as bad as it gets..
Plain, blue sky and way, way too much of it
Centered composition
Horrid, mid day lighting
Not much going for the composition. No leading lines or center of attention
No drama, no mood, no emphasis

There is a point where you should not take the picture and where post processing is not going to make up for all of the issues. This one is close to it.

I rarely like B&W and in this case do not see it as a fix to the issues. I did a little post processing to try to at least turn
...Show more

Thanks Jim - agreed about the original, but I disagree about the conversion not addressing some of the issues. But in the end I'm not gonna win any battles at this time of day and in these conditions. Better comp before the shutter was pressed would sure have saved me some pixels, but at the time I swung and fouled it off.

---------------------------------------------

oldrattler wrote:
I added some contrast & cropped the left side & top.


Thanks for the rework!

---------------------------------------------

lighthound wrote:
There's the Jim we all know and love. I was starting to think you were getting soft on us Jim! <--- (said with loving affection and sarcasm)

Jeff, it hurts but Jim does point out the many things you had going against you on this shot. I suspect that you were already aware of many of these things based on your OP image and where you went with it. As you already stated, when you're on a vac trip like this you don't always have the luxury of time to plan out and stalk many golden hour locations.
...Show more

Thanks for the comments, Dave! I should have added "mid day sun, no drama and poor in-camera comp" to the title. Yeah, this isn't a case of me trying to show off this shot as much as I am seeing how much lemonade can be squeezed out of lemon. But I'm definitely sitting here with opens ears about everything else!

---------------------------------------------

ben egbert wrote:
Bald sky's. Heck if it were not for bald sky's I would be finished. I have been to almost every place I want to photograph and the main reason I need to go back is because I had bald sky's, in all my previous images. In fact I just showed one where I used a composite from different places and different years.

What many people do is point the camera at some textured rocks that do not contain sky. That's the picture I will not bother with.

I always take the picture I came for, and if the sky is bald,
...Show more

I love the methods to your madness, Ben! Good food for though as well. If I do get more into the landscape game and visit repeatable spots then I will do just that.

Cheers,

Jeff



Dec 22, 2015 at 12:34 PM
Camperjim
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Overcoming Baldness


lighthound wrote:
.... As you already stated, when you're on a vac trip like this you don't always have the luxury of time to plan out and stalk many golden hour locations. You just have to do the best you can with the light you have sometimes. And the plain blue sky goes right along with it. You can't control what mother nature hands us.

.....

Ahhh... Vacations. Aren't they great!

....


In a couple of months I will be making a major presentation to about 75 photographers concerning travel/vacation photography. One of my points will be that the results will depend on the effort expended. Next, results will improve if we give up the excuses. The photographer should get the credit for what goes right and should also get the blame for what does not work. There are countless opportunities in all directions with constantly changing conditions and endless opportunities to vary focal length, point of view, width of field and subject matter.

When I travel I try to schedule late afternoons through sunset for my major photography efforts. Other times I drive between locations, explore, hike, eat, and often take an afternoon nap. I just reviewed my best photographs from my travels this past Fall. In spite of my emphasis on golden hour photography, I found about 70% of my best images were taken during mid day conditions. Since I traveled mainly in the southwest, there were plain blue skies in a great many of my favorite images.

I have a long, long way to go in my journal to improve my photography but I moved forward a long way when I started to give up my excuses and rationalizations.



Dec 22, 2015 at 04:07 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Overcoming Baldness


Yep, I understand what you are saying and agree that sometimes we all use excuses to help justify a less than stellar image. However, I am also a realist and from what I understand, this image was taken while Jeff was on a family visit out west and he managed to sneak away for a while while he was out there to try to get some images of a few iconic landscapes. The reality is lack of time, thus possibly being rushed to see as much as possible with hopes to come home with some nice shots. Maybe even some wall hangers, which I think he accomplished with some other locations.

My personal take on the original posted image is that it is a nice image and to use your phrase, a great memory photo. If we look at the original image and then the sooc image, I think that it's clear that he is trying to make some lemonade from a lemon shot.

I doubt very much that the sooc image is what he went there to capture but rather a snap taken while hiking around exploring looking for a magical spot to then take the time to think through a little more before hitting that shutter button.

I know if I ever get the chance to go there again, I'll bang off several similar shots should I see something that catches my eye but just doesn't have everything I think it should to justify the time to set up on.

Now if I was retired and had all the time I wanted to spend at places like this then that is a whole other ballgame. Unfortunately in my case, I'd probably still make excuses to explain why my image suck.

Bottom line is, I like the lemonade Jeff came up with from his sooc image. And I normally don't like B&W landscapes! Sure he could have tried to get that composition in camera but it is what it is when the clock is ticking.

Dave



Dec 22, 2015 at 08:21 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Overcoming Baldness


A couple thoughts kinda in line with Jim @ "we make our own luck" based on our efforts. The tools of landscapers include a compass, watch and calendar as much as a tripod and lens. Some times it includes an alarm clock and some good shoes and socks, or warm coat and gloves and a ton of patience. Yeah, we make our own luck, not unlike the photojournalist adage of yore @ "f8 and be there".

As to the traveler, we seem to always be making choices / compromises / sacrifices @ can't be in more than one place at one time. Sometimes that means we might be in more of a "recording mode" than an "artistry" mode. That's not to say the too modes can't overlap, but sometimes we do have to be realistic @ the reality of living in a world without teletransporters.

Took a stab at a couple renderings, one more "recording mode", one more "artistry" mode. As to lemonade ... it may not always make our portfolio or be gallery worthy, but it still brings value to the effort and / or memory of the experience @ being there.

I'd like to see Jeff's original crop posted sooc large enough to play with it. I think he has a nice crop of the scene, but I'd approach the tonal values a bit different that he did. The sooc posted was just a bit small to workup the crop, so these are alternative, although I think Jeff's OP crop might have the more compelling composition.












Dec 22, 2015 at 10:47 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Overcoming Baldness


Very nice work Kent. The last has a classic AA feel and the first has the color equivalent.

As I like to think, nature is the artist and we are just documenting it, but some do a better job.

This is certainly a dramatic scene, but of course we would like some clouds in the sky. Putting a gradient helps a lot. But the additional detail you pulled out of the rocks also helped.

For me, there is no way I could avoid taking this picture regardless of the sky or light. The scene itself is just to good and the time and trouble too great and maybe impossible to repeat.

My rationale is I never want to forget the place.

Can it be art? Heck I guess not but no matter how dramatic a sky, somebody else will have a better one. We have to play the hand we are dealt.

Show it as art? No, but if all my images had the requirement I would quit.



Dec 22, 2015 at 11:03 PM
beavens
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Overcoming Baldness


Well done and said, Kent!

I dig your lemonade and that heavy gradient definitely helps some with the dull skies.

The crop you've got is along the lines of what I was thinking (knowing that some cropping would be done) and was before I played around with tightening things up.

Definitely nothing worth hanging or even really printing, but a good exercise nonetheless!



Jeff



Dec 23, 2015 at 12:31 PM





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