Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2015 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait

  
 
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


I haven't done much with artificial lighting in the past. I am supposed to do a portrait (unpaid favor) of a lady and her dog, maybe adding her husband for some. Bought too much gear lately, so I am trying to not spend a fortune at the moment.

My plan so far - I'm going to try to put them some distance from the tree (6' ?). I want to get some of the tree lights, so figure I will drag the shutter as much as I can without the (active) dog messing things up too much.

I intend to use my speedlight as the key (Nikon SB-700) maybe around 30 degree angle and a reflector for fill. That's all that I have currently.

I can just borrow a light stand and umbrella, and use that with the speedlight. What I was wondering however - is the SB-700 going to have enough power to work well with an umbrella? Also, since a softbox would give me more focused light - I'm presuming it probably would be better - will the umbrella put too much light on the tree, and mess up showing the lights?



Dec 19, 2015 at 01:53 PM
Gregg Heckler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


My suggestion would be to use the umbrella to be sure you have enough even light. If the subject is far enough away from the tree, put the umbrella close and feather it, you won't have any problems controlling the ambient on the tree. Use your ISO and shutter to control that. An Umbrella will give you more light with the SB700 than a softbox will. Or just crank up the ISO a bit. I would start by setting the umbrella over your left or right shoulder angled down a bit. This will give you more an even beauty type light. That way the SB700 won't have to work so hard and your female subject will thank you.




Dec 19, 2015 at 02:12 PM
markli
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Like most thing in photography (and especially lighting) there is no right or wrong, do some testing to figure out what you need to do to get the result you want. An umbrella inside a room in a house is like a light bomb going off, this level of fill may or may not be what you want.

Sorry if this doesn't seem helpful but only you know the end result you want and the environment you are shooting in.



Dec 19, 2015 at 02:25 PM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Gregg Heckler wrote:
My suggestion would be to use the umbrella to be sure you have enough even light. If the subject is far enough away from the tree, put the umbrella close and feather it, you won't have any problems controlling the ambient on the tree. Use your ISO and shutter to control that. An Umbrella will give you more light with the SB700 than a softbox will. Or just crank up the ISO a bit. I would start by setting the umbrella over your left or right shoulder angled down a bit. This will give you more an even beauty
...Show more

I understand re. putting the umbrella close, not sure what you mean by "feather it"?

I do understand playing around with the ambient light.

I thought I had read that you got more light shooting through a softbox than reflected from an umbrella, why I thought that might be better for the SB700?

I agree though, while I am a fan of dramatic lighting, for this female subject more even might be better.



Dec 19, 2015 at 03:25 PM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


markli wrote:
Like most thing in photography (and especially lighting) there is no right or wrong, do some testing to figure out what you need to do to get the result you want. An umbrella inside a room in a house is like a light bomb going off, this level of fill may or may not be what you want.

Sorry if this doesn't seem helpful but only you know the end result you want and the environment you are shooting in.


I need to decide whether to go there with the umbrella I can borrow, or go buy a softbox. So I'm not necessarily going to get to play around in advance to make that choice unfortunately.

The flash with umbrella or softbox is going to be my main/key - not fill. Fill will be from the reflector. I only have one light.

'helpfully' I don't even know what the room will look like.

So for this particular shoot, I'm just wanting to get subjects lit reasonably, tree lights in evidence, and not a disaster



Dec 19, 2015 at 03:28 PM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


From Adorama website: (re. softbox)

"Because your flash fires directly through a lightbank, it produces direct lighting, even though the lightbank may have a diffusion panel in front of the flash tube to soften the flash. Because you're shooting through rather than relying on reflected light,"

Interesting article actually http://www.adorama.com/alc/0013566/article/Softbox-vs-Umbrella-Which-One-Should-You-Use

so according to that the SB-700 would have to work harder with the umbrella than the softbox. So umbrella = too much light or not enough? a few conflicting opinions maybe, unless I am missing something (always possible)



Dec 19, 2015 at 03:39 PM
Paulthelefty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Generally a soft box of any size will have two diffusers, so you lose a ton of light that way... Add to that most soft boxes are designed for a tube light (like a studio flash) and not a directed light (like a speed light) and you have a very inefficient set up. Since you know so little about the location, etc, I would say KISS, go with the umbrella. Feathering means aiming the umbrella so the edge of the light pattern falls where it does not hit the tree, for example. This means the light/umbrella would not be pointing directly at the subject (necessarily) but probably at a point a foot or two in front of the subject (for example).

Hope that helps.

Paul



Dec 19, 2015 at 04:01 PM
Gregg Heckler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


"Feathering means aiming the umbrella so the edge of the light pattern falls where it does not hit the tree, for example."

Exactly, you want to feather the light so more of the rear edge of the umbrella is lighting the subject, not the center of it. I like to leave my flash bracket or head a little loose on the stand. This way I can pull or push the umbrella or softbox until I get the lighting effect I want. Since you won't have a modeling light, you'll have to experiment a little and watch your rear LCD. Feathering the light toward you will also help you put more light on the fill reflector, and cause the light to wrap around your subject, giving a softer, less contrast look. Your SB-700 will have to do a lot less work that way. Feathering toward you will also keep the light off of the tree. An umbrella can make some nice light when use properly. For something like this a 33" to 40" white will work fine.



Dec 19, 2015 at 04:27 PM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Ahhh ok gotcha. Sounds like the borrowed umbrella is the way to go this time. No clue how big it is, or what color, but I will ask. I will at least be able take test snaps and review on the LCD.

No clue seems to be my general state about this one haha. Well they'll at least get what they paid for (free).

Thanks very much everyone for the help.



Dec 19, 2015 at 05:29 PM
Gregg Heckler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Good luck. Note you can buy a decent umbrella for $20. Get your own and practice.


Dec 19, 2015 at 06:32 PM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Can do if I can get one in time. I need a stand also - so borrowing the first time (if suitable) may be good, let me think about what I actually want instead of purchasing in a hurry.


Dec 21, 2015 at 09:06 AM
Steve Wylie
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


If you have the opportunity to get a white reflective umbrella, rather than a silver one, it might be a bit more forgiving for you for portraiture, less specular and "brassy" in quality, but a bit less efficient than a silver one.

The main thing you'll need to do is figure out your ambient exposure for the room you're in, to preserve the tree lights or any other details you need in the room. Then fill in the subject with flash; go manual with it and dial it up or down to taste.

The other thing you can do with the reflective umbrella, if you find that you need to narrow down the spread of light emitted by the umbrella, is to collapse it somewhat, making the opening smaller. Feathering is still the first option I'd go with, but collapsing is also an alternative.



Dec 23, 2015 at 01:14 AM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Well I got it done. More or less. Hahaha between the room space and the dog, all I would have needed to add to make it perfect was a screaming baby and a hissing cat. And maybe a dead goldfish.

I ended up buying a umbrella box. I could direct it more than an umbrella anyway. Used the silver side of my reflector as I needed more light than I got from the white side.

However - the room was maybe 10 feet deep - with several giant couches, giant tables, really giant tv... no floor space, and I couldn't really get away from them as much as I would have wanted.

The dog was really the 'star' of the show - as soon as he finished leaping all over everything, he melted. Into a puddle on the floor, where he stayed. I would have to crawl over from the corner that I was lying in (!), pick up the dog and drape him over the owner, crawl back and jam my head back into the corner of the room, and try to frantically shoot before he collapsed again.

So posing people specifically and fancy lighting patterns were out the window - just tried to get everyone's eyes open and the dog half upright.

So I did feather the light, that worked out ok. I got the subjects exposed adequately anyway, and did have the background darkish with the tree lights showing. So got the basic look that I wanted.

At home, I had practiced with draping some black velvet over part of the umbrella box (sort of a gobo) which worked well - but I didn't end up need it on site.

Thanks for all the help!



Dec 27, 2015 at 12:46 PM
Gregg Heckler
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


You're welcome, I hope it came out well. Here's one I did for one of my sisters. Nikon SB-910 with a 33" white shoot through umbrella and an SB-910 on camera, bounced for a little fill. Nikon D3, 35 1.4g @f/8, 1/40, ISO 400.







Dec 28, 2015 at 11:52 AM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Very nice photo, I'm sure she was pleased.

That's an entirely different effect than I got - I basically did not have the detail of the tree - kept it pretty dark, mostly just had the lights behind them (as planned).

Not the bokeh I would have wished for - they were too close, and I stopped it down some since the dog was sort of - here, there, and everywhere - sometimes parallel to them, sometimes in front of them. And with him collapsing, I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of shots, so I went with a safer bet.

But overall, didn't come out too bad, considering the challenges. They seem to like them, so that's what counts.



Dec 29, 2015 at 08:31 AM
DigMeTX
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


TAM63 wrote:
Very nice photo, I'm sure she was pleased.

That's an entirely different effect than I got - I basically did not have the detail of the tree - kept it pretty dark, mostly just had the lights behind them (as planned).



That's what I typically go for as well.

http://photos.bradcookphotography.net/img/s6/v148/p101658780-5.jpg

http://photos.bradcookphotography.net/img/s5/v130/p480319843-5.jpg



Dec 29, 2015 at 10:42 AM
TAM63
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Very nice bokeh shots.




Dec 29, 2015 at 08:06 PM
DigMeTX
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Umrella or softbox - Christmas Tree portrait


Thanks


Dec 30, 2015 at 12:39 AM





FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.