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Archive 2015 · PPA

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · PPA

I did a topic search but nothing showed up.

I'm thinking about joining PPA. Would anyone with past or present experience with them please offer your opinion on the advantages of being a member?

Thanks in advance,
Marty

Dec 02, 2015 at 10:48 PM

glort
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · PPA

Well seeing no one wants to talk to you....

I can;t give any advise on your PPA but I have been a member of our local ones here in Oz.

In short, I found them totally and utterly useless.
I think they are more of a crutch for the people starting out and the ones that like to sniff one anothers backsides frankly.

Here you pay the better part of $500 a year and get a magazine and a discount on their highly price inflated workshops and events. You can enter their yearly awards but I found that to be a complete and utter mothers club and if you're not in the click, forget it.

I'm not bitter because I didn't win anything, I did, but it's hollow when you see brilliant work by a no one dismissed and some talentless piece of crap getting praised by a Brand name shooter that is mates with all the other people on the committee and judging panel. It's supposed to be anonymous judging but all of them in the click have already shown one another what they are entering so they know who to give the prizes to and the fill in the numbers with the rest of the entrants.

I'm far from the only one to think this and I know and have personally spoken to some who have left even though the were in the illumanati but didn't like the biased way the associations were being run.

Here they make a big deal of being a member. They used to run ads in bridal mags basically saying you can't trust anyone but one of our members. Brides would come in asking the question word for word as advised in the ad about being a member and I'd tell them no, Paying an extortionate yearly membership to be in a mothers club does not make me a better shooter or give you any benefits. People book me because of what I do and what I offer, not what trade union I belong to.

Rather than that working against me, it always won me favor. People would say " Yeah, it's like that in my industry as well, I know what you mean exactly" and that was it.

I looked at their membership policys again about a year ago. Wow. it's like a cult. They want to tell you how to run your business and provide proof of your software purchases to them and lay down the law how you have to run your business and what you can and can't do and what would be seen as not acceptable practice.
Would be fine if it were just business ethics but it goes way beyond that here.

I'd suggest you look at your organization and ask what you really want and need to help your business now and in the future and take a good look if that's what they actually provide.

As far as networking goes with other shooters, I have done that 100 times more on the net than I have with any get togethers from shooters organizations.

Everyone has different needs and will find different benefits but my suggestion is rather than just take their word for the benefits you'll get, ask yourself if thats what you really want or need in the first place and if there aren't other ways ( cheaper) you can get the same thing.

To me a lot of what they offer is a bit like camera features made a big fuss about but you have never had occasion in your life to want and never will use it now it's available anyway.

" Our new camera lets you use phase inverted tripple Grammy meter girdle spring adapters"
If you have no use for the feature, it's not of any value.

Dec 03, 2015 at 08:29 PM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · PPA

glort wrote:

Well seeing no one wants to talk to you...

I seem to have that effect on people...

Thanks for your analysis. I will take it under consideration.

As you know I'm starting a major business model overhaul and I'm looking under rocks everywhere for information and ideas.

I'm leaning toward giving them a go for at least one cycle because they can get me in free to an expo coming to Atlanta and it would almost cost as much as the membership dues just to attend the expo.

Plus, I dropped my equipment insurance and kept my liability a while back because it wasn't worth the money to me. They include that in the price of membership as well.

Again, thanks for your input!

Marty

Dec 03, 2015 at 11:00 PM

gschlact
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · PPA

Marty,
Last year I looked into the ppa insurance. On the surface, nice, but was lacking in the detail.

Going from memory, you would need /want to speak to their rep. They were changing terms but anyway, look into Mysterious and Accidental loss coverage which I think we're missing. Also, you'll want to see if international coverage is there, as well as coverage for personal use. They also had decently high deductible compared to other coverage.

I recently looked at their Health Insurance plans, and for people with no government entitlement benefits on the Marketplace, the PPA health plan offerings were identical as the individual carriers available to individuals off market place. So no group benefit.

Guy

PS - Allstate actually had decently equipment coverage for pros or individuals. Liability is expensive and separate.

Dec 04, 2015 at 08:35 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · PPA

Thanks Guy. I'm rapidly approaching the age where mysterious loss of things is not uncommon.

Marty

Dec 04, 2015 at 02:32 PM

glort
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · PPA

Marty Bingham wrote:
Plus, I dropped my equipment insurance and kept my liability a while back because it wasn't worth the money to me. They include that in the price of membership as well.

The Pro association here had an insurance package that was quite attractive and a lot of people took it up. Didn't take long before noises about claims being refused started circulation and then got quite loud.
It was played down by the association who were no doubt getting good kickbacks out of it.... Up until one of the board members got all his gear knocked off out of his car on a job, 2 weeks running, and they knocked both claims back. Within weeks they had a new company they were pushing. That didn't do so well as a lot of people were burned over the first crooks.

The board member Borrowed the 2nd lot of gear from the importer and was going to pay when his insurance came through. It never did. He was in the hole something like 30K. He did try to take action but his solicitor found a get out of anything clause in the contract so it never went beyond that.

I have never had equipment insurance here. I have never lost through theft or otherwise , any equipment. The times I have looked over the years at it, the premiums have always been about 25% of the insured value . It's just BS here. We automatically get public health cover here in Oz and for Public liability I went through a broker who got me a good deal.

I don't know if it is common knowledge or not but there is a real easy way to drop the price of your premium a savvy friend told me about.

Increase your excess. With my Public liability, from memory the $20M coverage was about $7xx. By increasing the excess to $1000, I got my premium down to high $400's . It was almost $300 which obviously doesn't take long to recoup even if you did have a claim.
Covering the first $1000 isn't going to break me so it was a well worthwhile risk for me to carry.

You can do the same with all insurances pretty much, here at least. A slight bump in the excess means a very significant reduction in the over all premium. I told my father about this and he enquired when his business insurance came due and by taking a $5K excess, he saved about 40% on his premium.

Don't know what convoluted system you have there. ( a lot of things like that in the US seem far more difficult than here) but it would be worthwhile asking about.

Dec 04, 2015 at 07:19 PM

Jay_Be
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · PPA

glort wrote:
I have never had equipment insurance here. I have never lost through theft or otherwise , any equipment. The times I have looked over the years at it, the premiums have always been about 25% of the insured value . It's just BS here. We automatically get public health cover here in Oz and for Public liability I went through a broker who got me a good deal.

Around 1k is an average premium for both 20k equipment cover and 20 mill. public liability combined. Certainly not 25% of insured value of equipment, more like 2.5 %
I go through a broker for a similar premium and $500 excess. The example linked below is a random company googled to simply to show I'm not talking out of my ar++
https://business-insurance.aon.com.au/Professions/Entertainment/Photographers.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAiA1o-zBRDomsWasvKh4S8SJADSlZkqZqfX-MOS3NTPahRrfK212lha19ctGArLxmuyi6UnkBoCLzfw_wcB

Dec 06, 2015 at 07:05 AM

glort
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · PPA

Jay_Be wrote:
Around 1k is an average premium for both 20k equipment cover and 20 mill. public liability combined. Certainly not 25% of insured value of equipment, more like 2.5 %

Best I have ever seen.

At this stage though, I wouldn't bother with equipment insurance. I have managed to not need it a lot of years now and If I lost the lot, not like i'm not in a position I just can't go out and replace it. I think that's the thing. If it would leave you stranded then insurance is good. If you can cover it yourself.... Meh.

One does need to look into the fine print as well to see what is and isn't covered and what the terms and conditions are.

Dec 06, 2015 at 03:43 PM

henryp
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · PPA

Marty Bingham wrote:
I'm thinking about joining PPA. Would anyone with past or present experience with them please offer your opinion on the advantages of being a member?

When I shot full time I was a member. They offer insurance and back then they administered the CPP (Certified Professional Photographer) program. They also have an annual trade show & convention.

I was also a member of my state group and by extension the local group too. From the standpoint of networking and getting real month-by-month feedback that was a much better opportunity for me. But to make that work you really have to go to every local or country group monthly meeting, eat the rubber chicken and then participate in whatever the event of the month might be. Some were better than others of course. YMMV

Henry Posner
[email protected]
B&H Photo-Video

Dec 08, 2015 at 11:56 AM

Marty Bingham
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · PPA

Thanks Henry. I'm really interested in the trade show that they have coming to Atlanta soon. The cost to join is only a little more than the cost to attend everything I want to see at the show so I will give them a shot.

Marty

Dec 09, 2015 at 02:30 AM

gschlact
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · PPA

Marty,
Just wanted to add /clarify.
When the policy has Mysterious loss, it actually covers loss when there is 'theft' without forced entry, except the Insurance companies don't consider it theft, and hence Mysterious Loss. Ironically however, it does require a police report.
Also, Mysterious Loss is often packaged with or includes Accidental loss. (lens fall over cliff etc)

Dec 12, 2015 at 12:12 AM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · PPA

It depends on your market. They are great for portrait and seniors photographers, good for wedding photographers, but not going to be of much value for sports or wildlife shooters. One can get special insurance through them which includes errors and omission coverage as well as coverage for equipment.

They have special programs for providing assistance with business operation and marketing that is particularly valuable for studio owners.

Their magazine is by far the best photo magazine being published in the USA at this time for the professional photographer.

Dec 20, 2015 at 05:31 PM

RDKirk
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · PPA

elkhornsun wrote:
It depends on your market. They are great for portrait and seniors photographers, good for wedding photographers, but not going to be of much value for sports or wildlife shooters. One can get special insurance through them which includes errors and omission coverage as well as coverage for equipment.

They have special programs for providing assistance with business operation and marketing that is particularly valuable for studio owners.

Their magazine is by far the best photo magazine being published in the USA at this time for the professional photographer.

If one is in the portrait/senior business, I agree with this completely. With regard to getting expert help with running the business in any area of consumer photography (non-commercial, non-editorial), I agree PPA can provide support you can't get elsewhere without being an established photographer's very-trusted padawan.

Feb 01, 2016 at 08:39 PM

markd61
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · PPA

I was a member for a number of years. I have to say that Glort's experience is somewhat comparable but I also found that PPA did offer some real benefits.

The most useful service they offer is their information on how to run a profitable business. They have very comprehensive programs to educate photographers on how to structure their business, know their costs and develop pricing strategies that result in profit.

I was also able to take advantage of their legal advice services WRT contracts and copyright.

Henry P is correct that local chapters can be more useful than the National organization in helping you with your local business. Networking with them can be fun and educational.

Competitions can be useful but I found their judging criteria inconsistent at times but the criticism useful.

I do not use their insurance schemes or any of the other "partner" programs as they are poor values compared to what one can find with just a little research.
As for insurance, a local broker wrote me an excellent policy at a rate that beat another trade group that I belong to.

Feb 02, 2016 at 11:59 PM


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