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Archive 2015 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory He...

  
 
mcbroomf
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


Rich, there may be an overall colour change (even in the center) as I used a very large feather when creating the circle. Looking at the mask I think it has a very slight effect in the middle even though of course the most impact is on the outside of the circle.


Feb 05, 2016 at 09:29 AM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


mcbroomf wrote:
Rich, there may be an overall colour change (even in the center) as I used a very large feather when creating the circle. Looking at the mask I think it has a very slight effect in the middle even though of course the most impact is on the outside of the circle.


Hi Mike,

I was just wondering becuase if you look at my image that was supposed to have been affected only by the LR defaults, I definietly see a difference in the color. Look at the color of the houses and the grass.

Rich



Feb 05, 2016 at 09:34 AM
mcbroomf
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


You're right Rich. I used the colour sampler in PS to look at the colour in the center and the red is 3 to 5 lower compared to green and blue after the radial filter, so there is a little effect even in the middle due to the large feathering.


Feb 05, 2016 at 09:40 AM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


I ran some additional tests today under partly/mostlycloudy conditions this time out the rear of my house. Again, I tested both my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and my Leica M 24mm f3.8 Asph lenses mounted to my Hawk's Factory V5 Helicoid. Additionally, I also ran tests with my Leica R 50mm f2 Summicron to act as a contol and as a non RF WA lens.

These may be a little underexposed.

I am going to again pair the results between my new A7rM and compare it to Mike's older A7rM camera.

The first image is with my A7rM and my 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and the second image is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.

The second set of images is with my A7rM and my 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph and the second is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.


Rich






Rich's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 100 f8 1/250 sec







Mike's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 100 f8 1/250 sec







Rich's A7rM Leica 24mm Asph ISO 100 f8 1/250 sec







Mike's A7rM Leica 24mm Asph ISO 100 f8 1/200 sec




Feb 07, 2016 at 05:10 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


The last 2 photos compare my A7rM with Mikes's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm f2 Summicron lens.

The first image is with my A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron and the second image is Mike's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron.

Rich





Rich's A7rM Leica 50mm Summicron, ISO 100 f8 1/250 sec







Mike's A7rM Leica 50m Summicron, ISO 100 f8 1/200 sec




Feb 07, 2016 at 05:18 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


I'm enjoying the thread, but I'm a little surprised at the magenta corners and short edges after the Kolari filter exchange in both cameras.

I went back to my test shots with Leica 24 Elmar and 2nd gen Kolari a7 several times to check the edges, and there was nothing compared to what I see here. Then, I realized maybe its the difference between a a7 and a7R, or maybe it was just the snow! I had the a7R and traded down to the a7 just to get the bigger pixels to augment the Kolari treatment.

Anyway, then we have the difference in color temp between a 2nd and 3rd gen Kolari. Can you comment on why Mike's 2nd gen filter has more balance color than Rich's 3rd gen Kolari?

a7 2nd gen Kolari Leica 24 Elmar: with attempt to color balance in LR. I now have 2 outdoor custom white balances that work OK.
_DSC0007 by Jim Buchanan, on Flickr



Feb 07, 2016 at 08:31 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


JimBuchanan wrote:
I'm enjoying the thread, but I'm a little surprised at the magenta corners and short edges after the Kolari filter exchange in both cameras.

I went back to my test shots with Leica 24 Elmar and 2nd gen Kolari a7 several times to check the edges, and there was nothing compared to what I see here. Then, I realized maybe its the difference between a a7 and a7R, or maybe it was just the snow! I had the a7R and traded down to the a7 just to get the bigger pixels to augment the Kolari treatment.

Anyway, then we have the difference
...Show more

Hi Jim,

There is a large difference in the issues with the purple corners and edges with the A7r and the A7 cameras with or without the Kolari Modification. The color issue is also absent with the A7rII cameras.

The color issue with the A7r cameras can be dealt with with either Corner fix or with the Flat Field Plug in from Adobe.

Once we get the color issues and WB dealt with with either the V2 or the V 3 Kolari sensor covers, I will try to deal with the purple color of the RF WA lenses with the Flat Field Adobe Plug in. Once I have an A7rII camera (Hopefully I will be able to get one) this will be little issue.

Mike's camera appears to have a real blue color cast while my camera appears to be more yellow or green? In many ways though the V3 color glass appears in many ways to be more neutral at least to me. We will also have to wait for others to report on the color cast of the V3 cover glass including Charlie that just had his A7 updated to the V3. The reason I say that the V3 cover glass may be more neutral is in many ways seen in the color of the houses in the earlier series. Those images actaully show the color of the houses more accurately than do the images taken with Mike's camera.

Ilija at Kolari had explained to me that they hoped that the V3 revision would be more neutral with less of the blue cast that we are seeing in the V2. From my initial tests, and I am yet to provide Kolari with updates of my testing, Ilija is wonderng if they had gone too far in their coatings to the cover glass.

Rich




Feb 07, 2016 at 09:31 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


Michael (mdemeyer) just sent me an PM to check my WB setting and to make sure my trim was set to 0. Unfortunately, I found with my camera had one of the 2 values was not set to 0. Mike's camera was set to dead 0. I will have to run more tests again now that I have reset my camera to 0. I will shoot more tests and post the results as they become available.

Rich



Feb 08, 2016 at 11:40 AM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


After discovering that the AWB Trim was not set to 0 and resetting my camera to a 0 Trim, I ran some additional tests today under partly/mostlycloudy conditions this time out the rear of my house. Again, I tested both my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and my Leica M 24mm f3.8 Asph lenses mounted to my Hawk's Factory V5 Helicoid. Additionally, I also ran tests with my Leica R 50mm f2 Summicron to act as a contol and as a non RF WA lens.

I am going to again pair the results between my new A7rM and compare it to Mike's older A7rM camera.

The first image is with my A7rM and my 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and the second image is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.

The second set of images is with my A7rM and my 24mm f3.8 Elmar Asph and the second is with Mike's A7rM and the same lens.

After the Trim adjustment to my camera, the colors of the V3 and the V2 Kolari Thin Sensor covers now appear much closer. The Purple corners and edges of the WA RF lenses are still more prominent in the V3 Sensor covers as can be seen with my camera.


Rich






Richs's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 100 f8 1/400 sec







Mike's A7rM Zeiss 35mm Distagon ISO 100 f8 1/640 sec







Rich's A7rM Leica 24mm Asph ISO 100 f8 1/500 sec







Mike's A7rM Leica 24mm Asph ISO 100 f8 1/400 sec



Edited on Feb 08, 2016 at 06:56 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2016 at 01:25 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


The last 2 photos compare my A7rM with Mikes's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm f2 Summicron lens.

The first image is with my A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron and the second image is Mike's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron.

Rich





Rich's A7rM Leica 50mm Summicron, ISO 100 f8 1/400 sec







Mike's A7rM Leica 50m Summicron, ISO 100 f8 1/400 sec




Feb 08, 2016 at 01:32 PM
hiepphotog
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


naturephoto1 wrote:
The last 2 photos compare my A7rM with Mikes's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm f2 Summicron lens.

The first image is with my A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron and the second image is Mike's A7rM with my Leica R 50mm Summicron.

Rich


Rich,

Thank you for these. I think the V3 might give a more accurate WB now right. Can you comment on this? I still want to see if there is any improvement in the AR.



Feb 08, 2016 at 06:27 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


hiepphotog wrote:
Rich,

Thank you for these. I think the V3 might give a more accurate WB now right. Can you comment on this? I still want to see if there is any improvement in the AR.


Hi Hiep,

My guess at this point after adjusting the AWB Trim of my camea to 0 is that the V3 colors may be a bit more accurate and quite possibly more neutral than the V2 Sensor covers.

The Color Profile and WB of the new Sensor will still need to be prepared and unfortunately, it appears that the Purple color of the edges and corners from my Zeiss and Leica RF WA lenses are more prominent than on the V2 cover glass for the A7r cameras. I will need to use the Adobe DNG Flat Field Plug in to correct this issue at least in most situations.

Rich



Feb 08, 2016 at 06:47 PM
hiepphotog
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Hiep,

My guess at this point after adjusting the AWB Trim of my camea to 0 is that the V3 colors may be a bit more accurate and quite possibly more neutral than the V2 Sensor covers.

The Color Profile and WB of the new Sensor will still need to be prepared and unfortunately, it appears that the Purple color of the edges and corners from my Zeiss and Leica RF WA lenses are more prominent than on the V2 cover glass for the A7r cameras. I will need to use the Adobe DNG Flat Field Plug in to correct this
...Show more

Rich, unfortunately, that is just the characteristic of the sensor itself (not the the cover glass). The best cameras to handle those would be A7RII and A7S (1st and 2nd gen).

I believe with the Phigment, you can use the in-camera color cast correction to correct it to a great extent (like with Leica camera).



Feb 08, 2016 at 08:10 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


hiepphotog wrote:
Rich, unfortunately, that is just the characteristic of the sensor itself (not the the cover glass). The best cameras to handle those would be A7RII and A7S (1st and 2nd gen).

I believe with the Phigment, you can use the in-camera color cast correction to correct it to a great extent (like with Leica camera).


Hi Hiep,

I was not suggesting that the Coverglass was causing the problem. Rather the color cast seems to be stronger with the V3 versus the V2 cover glass.

As to my Phigment Adapter, it may well do some of the adjustments. Unfortunately there are several obstacles. First, Pual has stopped manufacturing the adapters and I am not sure how much he is or is willing to now support the units. Second, Paul had made adjustments to the frmware specifically for my Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor lens and the adapter only recognizes the lens some of the time. It is frequently recognizing the lens as my WATE which appears to now be the default for the adapter. So, I am not sure if the adapter is working properly to try to do what it may be capable of doing. Additionally, of my 2 WA RF lenses, only my Leica M 24mm f3.8 Asph has the 6 bit coding. The adapter reads the coding, but it needs to be instructed as to which in a series of lenses is which lens. Additionally, my Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM lens like my Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor lens has no Leica 6 bit coding. That is why Paul had gone into the firmware and made some adjustments so that the adapter would recognize the lens. I am not familiar to even try to code my Zeiss lens and I am not sure if I could get my Leica 24mm lens coded into the adapter.

Perhaps I should try to contact Paul about all of this through his e-mail address, but I have not seen him on the forum now in quite some time.

Rich



Feb 08, 2016 at 08:31 PM
mdemeyer
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


Rich,

Glad the color balance trim was the issue for overall color cast. I couldn't figure any other explanation for the difference you were seeing.

Michael



Feb 08, 2016 at 08:53 PM
naturephoto1
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


mdemeyer wrote:
Rich,

Glad the color balance trim was the issue for overall color cast. I couldn't figure any other explanation for the difference you were seeing.

Michael


Hi Michael,

Thanks for the heads up. I am glad that we are able to solve the issue. I wasn't even aware that it was set that way. At this point I wonder how the setting that I had affected the thousands of images taken with the wrong adjustment. I will send the latest results off to Ilija at Kolari Vision and I will let him know why we were getting such weird results. I am sure that will put him much more at ease.

Rich



Feb 08, 2016 at 09:16 PM
uhoh7
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


I'm also wondering about the AR coatings effect on performance.

Here is SEM 21 at f/5.6

First v1


a7m_sem21_5.6 (1 of 1) by unoh7, on Flickr

v3 (with camera standard and some WB cooling)

A7.mod v3 SEM 21 F/5.6 by unoh7, on Flickr

Link to V1 full

Link to V3 full

What do you guys think?



Feb 08, 2016 at 09:45 PM
mdemeyer
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


Hard to compare the two shots made in such different conditions and the lower part of the v3 image is really dark (underexposed because of the brighter sky), but I don't see a difference in smearing in the lower corners (where there is detail) which would be the only difference to check for.

Michael



Feb 08, 2016 at 10:02 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


Since this is the current thread on Kolari modded a7 cameras, here is an a7mod with ZM35/1.4 at f/1.4 to test for field curvature.

On a stock thick cover glass a7 camera, the ZM 35 Distagon plane of focus would bow out like a wind blown umbrella and while the mid frame would be out of focus, the edges would sharpen up due to the curved plane of focus. These test shots using a Kolari mod show an improvement to that phenomenon.

As a side note, infinity focus was tested in center frame and at the extreme corner. There was basically no focus change indicating there was a flatter plane of focus.

Also, these are full frame and the vignetting is uncorrected.

Subject distance is about 18-20 feet:
_DSC0001-2 by Jim Buchanan, on Flickr

Subject distance is about 10-12 feet:
_DSC0008-3 by Jim Buchanan, on Flickr



Feb 13, 2016 at 07:49 PM
JaKo
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid


uhoh7 wrote:
I'm also wondering about the AR coatings effect on performance.

Here is SEM 21 at f/5.6

First v1

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8606/16259533180_3d9a0b4eb3_b.jpg
a7m_sem21_5.6 (1 of 1) by unoh7, on Flickr

v3 (with camera standard and some WB cooling)
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1605/24906935275_ed80fb218d_b.jpg
A7.mod v3 SEM 21 F/5.6 by unoh7, on Flickr

Link to V1 full

Link to V3 full

What do you guys think?



Charlie,

Based on your Flickr samples between M9 and A7mod v3 I would suggest to alter white balance setting in your camera menu. Start with shifting it to A1-M1, take few test shots at f/5.6-8 along with M9, compare and adjust farther if needed.



Feb 14, 2016 at 06:10 PM
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