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Archive 2015 · My 7DII is still a headache

  
 
PetKal
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My 7DII is still a headache


Inconsistent AF is the problem I've had with my 7DII from day one.
Canon Canada took a look at the camera, but I am not sure what they did to it, if anything.
Right now the Single shot AF mode performs OK.
The problem remains with Servo AF......I am still getting too many OoF shots.
Also, I really have a hard time believing the 7DII AF sensors are rated to (-3) EV.

Since I do not have anything better to photograph in my immediate area these days, I've decided to give 7DII Servo AF some challenging but readily available test targets, and what could be better for that than frontal attack pijuns in flight.

I've started with 100-400 II lens today, and then I'll do a couple of faster aperture lenses, i.e., an f/4 and lastly an f/2.8 lens.

The in-focus rate with 100-400 II has been mediocre at best, and somewhat inferior to my old 1DsMkII. Simply put, the camera AF doesn't "see" the target well even in good light, let alone being able to track it given the quickly diminishing focusing distance.

The sample image below will give you an idea of the target type I am doing these tests on.....the same targets on which I've been performing such gear tests for years.




7DII + 100-400 II @ 400mm



Edited on Nov 19, 2015 at 07:27 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2015 at 02:22 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My 7DII is still a headache


I was having that problem with my 7D2 when I first got it. I could not even hit a BIF that I could post. I sent it to New Jersey last December and they did correct that. This last time if you read any of my posts I decided to send it in for a tune up to see if I could get a nudge in the clarity.

AI Servo seem to be OK side to side. I just shot some airliners the other day all in focus. Incoming I seem to be OK.

55-250 STM

~original[/IMG]

I read about how great everyone says Canada CPS is but in all honesty when it comes to fine focus stuff I don’t trust them at this point.

When big country sent his in to NJ they had to wait for a special tool. After he got it back he said it was better but there might be something else. We never heard about that later.

I’m wondering about my 100-400 myself.

That is a really nice shot by the way.



Nov 16, 2015 at 02:39 PM
charlyw
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
The in-focus rate with 100-400 II has been mediocre at best, and somewhat inferior to my old 1DsMkII.


Maybe you simply overdid the customisation, I hope that contrary to previous posters with problems you are willing to explain what settings (case, case modifications, AF settings) you used. Your shots were crops though, so that may account for differences as well as the amount of pixel on subject so make a difference when it comes to how well the focus needs to hit...



Nov 16, 2015 at 02:43 PM
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My 7DII is still a headache


Did Canon indicate they had done work on the camera, or if all was to spec in their mind?

I also sent mine in due to the inconsistent servo AF (many shots just slightly soft), and they stated they adjusted and improved the focus. My experience in the field supports that something has changed for the better with a tack sharp keeper rate approaching my 1DX now.



Nov 16, 2015 at 03:19 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My 7DII is still a headache


charlyw wrote:
Maybe you simply overdid the customisation, I hope that contrary to previous posters with problems you are willing to explain what settings (case, case modifications, AF settings) you used. Your shots were crops though, so that may account for differences as well as the amount of pixel on subject so make a difference when it comes to how well the focus needs to hit...


(1) All default settings used for AF tracking, in fact they are the same as I usually, but not always, use on 1DX.

(2) The degree of cropping above is dictated by the distance to target.....the shots are typicall either in focus or OoF. If in-focus shots are soft, that is due to motion blur or Servo AF starting to lose the target etc.

(3) Also, CMOS pixel density doesn't cause much trouble (or benefit) here.......besides, I am comparing results to cameras with lower, and a camera with higher pixel density than 7DII.

In the first approximation, the camera either picks up the target, locks AF onto it and then tracks it, or it doesn't. Little AF calibration drifts etc. come in the second approximation, and I do not worry about those at this stage of the test.



Nov 16, 2015 at 03:22 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My 7DII is still a headache


Greg Schneider wrote:
Did Canon indicate they had done work on the camera, or if all was to spec in their mind?

I also sent mine in due to the inconsistent servo AF (many shots just slightly soft), and they stated they adjusted and improved the focus. My experience in the field supports that something has changed for the better with a tack sharp keeper rate approaching my 1DX now.


Canon report said they did inspection, cleaning and electrical adjustment as needed, and the equipment AF was within the specs. Therefore, I do not know what they did, if anything at all.

However, my single AF shots are where they should be, and there might have been an improvement there. I am still puzzled by apparent lack of low light AF sensitivity.

Many of my Servo AF results are all over the map: front, back and nowhere focused on easy targets. The camera is borderline useable for BIF, but not really dependable enough even as a backup for 1DX.

I am seriously contemplating getting 1DMkIV as a backup for 1DX for action photography, because I do not trust my 7DII enough.



Nov 16, 2015 at 03:38 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My 7DII is still a headache


I'm not sure what peoples opinion of this fellow but




Nov 16, 2015 at 04:05 PM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
I am seriously contemplating getting 1DMkIV as a backup for 1DX for action photography, because I do not trust my 7DII enough.


I'm willing to swap my mint 1D MIV to a NIB 7D MII, no cash out on the other party. That's how I trust the 7D MII's AF.




Nov 16, 2015 at 04:08 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My 7DII is still a headache


Zenon Char wrote:
I'm not sure what peoples opinion of this fellow but



That fellow is quite a talker.



Nov 16, 2015 at 04:29 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My 7DII is still a headache


Liquidstone wrote:
I'm willing to swap my mint 1D MIV to a NIB 7D MII, no cash out on the other party. That's how I trust the 7D MII's AF.



OK, Romy, I am game. I'll throw in the grip for you too + 4 good Canon OEM batteries.



Nov 16, 2015 at 04:30 PM
David Garcia
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
Inconsistent AF is the problem I've had with my 7DII from day one.
Canon Canada took a look at the camera, but I am not sure what they did to it, if anything.
Right now the Single shot AF mode performs OK.
The problem remains with Servo AF......I am still getting too many OoF shots.
Also, I really have a hard time believing the 7DII AF sensors are rated to (-3) EV.

Since I do not have anything better to photograph in my immediate area these days, I've decided to give 7DII Servo AF some challenging but readily available test targets, and what could be
...Show more

Nice shots.

I can certainly understand your frustration. I sold my first 7D ii (after 8 mo's) as the AI Servo hit rate was no where near that of my other bodies. I just ordered a refurb this morning directly from Canon... 2 wk return policy with 1 yr warranty. If I have the same AI Servo oof issues, it will be returned.

It's been kind of a "let down" for me, as I've lost faith in the 7D ii body. For a crop, I've been using the 70D (which has been stellar), but it has it's limitations. Consequently, I decided to try the 7D2 just one more time.



Nov 16, 2015 at 04:47 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My 7DII is still a headache


I tested my 7DII using Focus Tune, in 10 shot "Shot to Shot Consistency" mode. That gives you the shot to shot variance from best focus. You could also use FoCal to get similar, specific, data driven feedback.

I found the shot to shot variance high with some settings. Changed settings, reshot, etc. Somewhere in the process my consistency got much, much better!

Unfortunately, I was changing a setting, taking 10 shots, changing, taking 10 more shots. Then processing in groups later. I thought I knew what I changed, but folks here said that only affected live view shots (the "Continus AF" setting.)

Like all trouble shooting though, you need to eliminate variables, change 1 thing at a time, and look at the good data.


I shoot my 7DII wide open in Servo AI all of the time, using any of the 65 points. It is very, very reliable. The best camera I have ever owned for AF consistency.

I have repeated the tests with many other cameras. Surprisingly, a lot of the mirrorless cameras I tried had large shot to shot variance, despite the "common knowledge" that sensor based AF is more accurate. That was true of my Sony A6000 and my Panasonic G7. It may be a specific combination of settings.

These complex devices. The 6 Sigma motto is: "Data Driven Decisions." Good data is critical!

When I have time, I will try to go through my 7DII settings again with FoCal or Focus Tune. It is time consuming!

Good luck.



Nov 16, 2015 at 04:48 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My 7DII is still a headache


I just did the 10 shot back to back thingy a few minutes ago with a tripod, mirror lock up, cable release and defocused between each shot. Pretty close. There was was some drift, maybe 1 MFA which is normal with PD. That was F4 so I can't really say for wider but most long lenses we use are f4.


Nov 16, 2015 at 04:59 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
That fellow is quite a talker.


Oh yeah.



Nov 16, 2015 at 04:59 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · My 7DII is still a headache


The problem with my 7DMkII is not that I can not get a half decent shot here and there, good enough for forum posting. The problem is with the keeper (i.e., in focus) rate.

Now, granted, this big pijun was a very easy target to AF on and track, despite abysmal light and rain. I could have, and I have, used Rebel T6s successfully on easy BIFs like this.




7DII Servo AF



Edited on Nov 19, 2015 at 07:28 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2015 at 05:04 PM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
OK, Romy, I am game. I'll throw in the grip for you too + 4 good Canon OEM batteries.


Pete, the 7D MII has to be NIB (see my original offer) so I'll have a great chance of getting a good one. With your amazing BIF skills, your 7D II copy must really have a problem if you can't focus it as well or nearly as well as your 1Dx.

I actually posted my 1D IV (with a spare OEM battery) for sale locally at 90% of the price of the 7DMII during the latter's introduction. There were no takers.... trading of used photo gear is much slower here than abroad.

Right now, my limited muscle memory is struggling to adopt to two systems of UI - that of the 1D MIV, and the 7D MII/5D MIII/5D MII/7D group. I'd rather use one system of UI, as well as maintain one type of batteries and chargers.




Nov 16, 2015 at 05:12 PM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · My 7DII is still a headache


PetKal wrote:
The problem with my 7DMkII is not that I can not get a half decent shot here and there, good enough for forum posting. The problem is with the keeper (i.e., in focus) rate.

Now, granted, this big pijun was a very easy target to AF on and track, despite abysmal light and rain. I could have, and I have, used Rebel T6s successfully on easy BIFs like this.


That's a tough AF job (darkish BIF with a featured BG), Pete..... well done!

If you can capture those with a less-than-optimal copy of the 7D II, I wonder what you'll get with a good copy like mine.




Nov 16, 2015 at 05:20 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · My 7DII is still a headache


Thank you, Romy, I think I would like to see my 7DII evolve into a dependable shooter eventually, because I still believe the camera has a great potential that some people like yourself have been able to utilize. Perhaps it is another firmware revision in the future that will fix it ? In the interim, I'll just keep testing a bit here and there in order to understand the camera's limitations better.


Nov 16, 2015 at 05:23 PM
StillFingerz
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · My 7DII is still a headache


Peter, your headache solution is a new 1DX<something>, anything less just doesn't have enough horsepower under the hood. Let those interested help fund your next Pro body by selling us your most unused gearz, I'd guess there are a few that would do so; I in particular will sit in line waiting for enough strength/skill to return and hope said new pro body arrives before your next birding season commenses so I might join in said funding


Nov 16, 2015 at 05:24 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · My 7DII is still a headache


Case 6, 65 point zone a few weeks ago. I didn't spend a lot of time editing. A quick run through LR.

~original[/IMG]

~original[/IMG]

~original[/IMG]

~original[/IMG]

~original[/IMG]

~original[/IMG]

Edited on Nov 17, 2015 at 01:09 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2015 at 05:47 PM
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