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Archive 2015 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony

  
 
DavidBM
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Well I've finally done it. After a year of agonising about buying a used slow 180mm lens for around a thousand US dollars I've pushed the button on one in good nick in M42 mount at a not too awful price given what they go for!

Why you ask? Because Ming Thein and Lloyd say so? Not really.

It's just that I never take my 70-200 f4 with me overnight hiking, which is where many of my best pics come from. Never. And the Apo-Lanthar is really small; 8cm long with a 49mm filter (11cm including a Novoflex adapter which I happen to have for M42); and less than 500g.

Ok there are slightly lighter (but not shorter) ways to get a 200 - like the Zuiko 200 f5. Cheaper too. But though that lens is fine, and so are a few others I've tried, they aren't great. 200 mm lenses just needed more tech than most manufacturers were prepared to throw at something not ultra fast.

How good is the Apo-Lanthar going to be? Well that remains to be seen: it'll take a while to arrive.

Here are the data points that make me confident:

(1) I've seen careful images which show it to be a bit contrasted and sharper than the excellent Leica Apo-Telyt f 3.4 (which was my other option), except maybe at infinity (where haze tends to be the determining factor)

(2) Ming Thien likes it, and he's pretty picky

(3) Jim Kasson shows that the Sony 70-200 is pretty much a wash with the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 at the long end.

(4) Jim has also shown that the Apo-Telyt is a wash with the Sony at 180 in the middle, but rather better in the edges.

Putting all that together, I should have a lens which is at least as good as a modern zoom at 200, maybe better in the edges, and much much smaller.

I'm not expecting miracles (a nice Loxia Apo-Tele-Tessar might give us those!) since this is a 17 year old design, absurdly overpriced just due to rarity, but I do think it'll be every bit as good as my zoom but (importantly) I'll have it with me.

But I've given up waiting for a modern compact slow quality tele, so here goes. I can always sell it if buyers remorse gets me.....



Nov 11, 2015 at 11:06 PM
lightstrum
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


This lens will delight you.


Nov 12, 2015 at 06:18 AM
f.hayek
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Great (and tiny) long lens for hiking and travel. Enjoy it; other ~200s like the Oly 200/5 or Nikkor 200/4 are not in the same league; rarity plays a big role in its valuation but it is that good. When I shot Nikons, it was THE long lens I traveled with and relegated my beastly tele zoom to the 'sales' bin. Pretty sharp already at ƒ/4, stopping down to ƒ/5.6 brings it to its peak performance. It is almost, but not quite at the level of the CV 125 in terms of resolution and color correction.

I owned both the Leica and CV for a period of time. For distance/near infinity, the CV was 'twitchier' to keep in focus (tiny adjustments or breathing might throw off focus), whereas the Leica was a breeze-longer focus throws, less susceptible to minute adjustments. Close-up (remember, the CV is marketed as a 'Close Focus' lens), things changed dramatically. I often used it for portraits.

I did find the contrast on the CV higher and colors more accurate. The Leica was better at preserving shadow detail. I do miss it but glad I held on to the CV. Useful thread from 2011 on both at MFlenses.



Nov 12, 2015 at 07:55 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


I love the sharpness of my Leica R 180/2.8 APO for landscape. I can hike with it and I have no regrets paying what I did for it as it has gone up alot in price after that still.


Nov 12, 2015 at 08:32 AM
formula4speed
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


I was desperately hoping your thread title meant Voigtlander re-introduced this lens for NEX cameras even though I knew it wasn't the case.

I've been keeping my eyes open for either this lens or the Voigtlander 90mm for a good price for many of the same reasons you mentioned above.



Nov 12, 2015 at 09:35 AM
f.hayek
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony




formula4speed wrote:
I've been keeping my eyes open for either this lens or the Voigtlander 90mm for a good price for many of the same reasons you mentioned above.


If you're still looking for the 90, Stephen Gandy at Cameraquest still has the CVII version in EOS mount for $580, new.



Nov 12, 2015 at 10:01 AM
formula4speed
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


f.hayek wrote:
If you're still looking for the 90, Stephen Gandy at Cameraquest still has the CVII version in EOS mount for $580, new.


I'm hoping to find a Nikon mount, my girlfriend shoots a D7000 and I could use it on my A7 and EM-5. The EOS would limit me to my A7 with the Metabones which I've considered but not pulled the trigger.




Nov 12, 2015 at 11:25 AM
f.hayek
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


formula4speed wrote:
I'm hoping to find a Nikon mount, my girlfriend shoots a D7000 and I could use it on my A7 and EM-5. The EOS would limit me to my A7 with the Metabones which I've considered but not pulled the trigger.



fleaBay's got 3 listed right now, CVI and II. $500-580



Nov 12, 2015 at 11:50 AM
formula4speed
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Yep, thanks. I'm being patient looking for a better price, I'm pretty averse to paying new prices for used lenses, discontinued or not. I've got an 85mm, 90mm and 100mm in the bag already so I can be picky and wait it out.


Nov 12, 2015 at 12:23 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


formula4speed wrote:
I was desperately hoping your thread title meant Voigtlander re-introduced this lens for NEX cameras even though I knew it wasn't the case.

I've been keeping my eyes open for either this lens or the Voigtlander 90mm for a good price for many of the same reasons you mentioned above.


The 90 is a nice lens; I used to have it, but couldn't justify keeping it with the other lenses in that range i have )cv75 2.5; SonyFE 90 macro, Batis 85) It's about 400g by the time you add an adapter, and it's not as nice as some of the modern competitors. It's no better, I think, than the Canon or Nikon 85 1.8s and certainly not better than the Batis 85; and it's not as contrasty and sharp as the best 90-100mm macros.

It is a bit smaller than most of those, for which you pay with the slower aperture, and it's cheaper than the macros.
So it certainly can make sense - but the difference with the 180 is the 180 just doesn't have competition at all in t's size/quality/fucntion envelope, shamefully.



Nov 12, 2015 at 03:20 PM
formula4speed
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Agreed on the 180 David, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of options for compact tele's now that mirrorless seems to have caught on. I might end up with the Olympus 75mm 1.8 on m4/3 as the closest alternative I can think of.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, hope to see some samples and hear your thoughts on the 180 when you get it in hands. Also jealous of your 90 macro and 85 Batis, both on my wish list.



Nov 12, 2015 at 03:31 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


formula4speed wrote:
Agreed on the 180 David, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of options for compact tele's now that mirrorless seems to have caught on. I might end up with the Olympus 75mm 1.8 on m4/3 as the closest alternative I can think of.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, hope to see some samples and hear your thoughts on the 180 when you get it in hands. Also jealous of your 90 macro and 85 Batis, both on my wish list.


Yep the Oly 75 1.8 is not a bad alternative at all; it's what 150 f3.6 for DOF purposes. And if they release a body with more MP then it could take cropping to 200 equiv.

If the 150 focal will do, though, on FF the Sigma 150 2.8 macro is from memory very good likely as good as the Lanthar, has a slightly better potential for thin DOF if you care than the Oly, but is almost 14cm long (without adapter; 17 with for most mounts) and a lot heavier. Damn. Then of course there is their 180 3.5, only it's even bigger and heavier. And then there is their truly wonderful 180 2.8 macro (an Art lens before Art) but it's a real behemoth....often been tempted by it but I'd never travel with it, and while I shoot a lot around our country place, I don't think I can justify it...



Nov 12, 2015 at 05:38 PM
f.hayek
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


DavidBM wrote:
And then there is their truly wonderful Sigma 180 2.8 macro (an Art lens before Art) but it's a real behemoth....often been tempted by it but I'd never travel with it, and while I shoot a lot around our country place, I don't think I can justify it...


Lloyd Chambers did a head to head on this Sigma against the Leica 180 Elmarit APO. pretty surprising results....



Nov 12, 2015 at 06:31 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


f.hayek wrote:
Lloyd Chambers did a head to head on this Sigma against the Leica 180 Elmarit APO. pretty surprising results....


Sigma better? wouldn't astonish me. It is remarkable. And of course more recent. Legendary lenses get to be legends by being the best when new. Wish they'd start making e mount lenses...



Nov 12, 2015 at 08:19 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Leica R 180/2.8 APO is 970 grams and 13.2 cm.
A stop faster. Works well with Leica 2x extender and 1.4x Canon extender.



Nov 12, 2015 at 08:21 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


DavidBM wrote:
I'm not expecting miracles (a nice Loxia Apo-Tele-Tessar might give us those!) since this is a 17 year old design, absurdly overpriced just due to rarity, but I do think it'll be every bit as good as my zoom but (importantly) I'll have it with me.


I would be very pleasantly surprised if a Loxia 180 or 200/4 retailed for less than what you paid for the 180/4. The way things are going now with Zeiss lenses, it would probably be in the $1200-1500 range.

Still would be cool to have that option. I ended up with the 180/3.4, but yeah, it's about the same size and weight as a 70-200/4...

formula4speed wrote:
Yep, thanks. I'm being patient looking for a better price, I'm pretty averse to paying new prices for used lenses, discontinued or not. I've got an 85mm, 90mm and 100mm in the bag already so I can be picky and wait it out.


Well, it wouldn't help your GF, but if you can find the LTM version, it should be cheaper and will work on your mirroless cameras. It's the same optics as the SLR version.



Nov 12, 2015 at 08:23 PM
Luvwine
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


So far as I know, nothing yet beats the Leica 180/2.8 apo. The Sigma 180 macro is supposed to be as good at close range though is also much larger, but the Leica beats it at infinity. The Leica 180/3.4 is supposed to be about as good as the newer Leica at infinity, but not as good at close range. Course, the Leica 180/2.8 apo is very expensive, especially the 11357 version (only 400 made!) that accepts both 1.4x and 2x Leica extenders.


Nov 12, 2015 at 08:42 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


Luvwine wrote:
So far as I know, nothing yet beats the Leica 180/2.8 apo. The Sigma 180 macro is supposed to be as good at close range though is also much larger, but the Leica beats it at infinity. The Leica 180/3.4 is supposed to be about as good as the newer Leica at infinity, but not as good at close range. Course, the Leica 180/2.8 apo is very expensive, especially the 11357 version (only 400 made!) that accepts both 1.4x and 2x Leica extenders.


The Mamiya 645 A 200/2.8 comes close to the Leica, or so I heard on this forum. It's probably my sharpest lens.




Nov 12, 2015 at 10:57 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


You definitely won't be disappointed, it's excellent. Incredibly small considering the APO correction, resolution, and close focus. Jim has an interesting chart in this thread showing that similar lenses tend to be much bigger even as they have far less close focus and inferior performance. I don't think you overpayed for this lens at all. Now the 125/2.5? There's a lens inflated by collectors and rarity.


Nov 12, 2015 at 11:12 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Apo Lanthar 180 for Sony


rscheffler wrote:
I would be very pleasantly surprised if a Loxia 180 or 200/4 retailed for less than what you paid for the 180/4. The way things are going now with Zeiss lenses, it would probably be in the $1200-1500 range.

Still would be cool to have that option. I ended up with the 180/3.4, but yeah, it's about the same size and weight as a 70-200/4...



I agree a Loxia 180 f4 would be at least USD 1500; still you have to imagine that in the seventeen years since the Lanthar was designed we could do even better (I gather contrast is much better these days because we have the computer power to trace not just image forming rays but all the rays, and so work out what's happening with the non-image forming light and thus reduce haze and flare). Rather than being as good as the top zooms, it would be a lot better!

But I don't have high hopes. There was a SAR report on an interview with Zeiss saying ultra wide and 200 next priority with Zeiss for Loxia! But when you listened to the actual interview they said the opposite: that 180 and 200 will have to wait, as ultrawides, 100 and 135 are more urgent...



Nov 13, 2015 at 12:56 AM
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