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Archive 2015 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks

  
 
Jeff
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


"Commercial Activity: It shall be unlawful to conduct any commercial activity or concession, or provide any service, product or activity for which a fee is charged, on Open Space lands, except when a valid Xxxxxx County Open Space Special Activity Agreement is issued. Fine: $75.00"

Is this common in your area? I was just advised of this regulation (while doing a one-on-one portrait session), and of the fact that if you sell an image with Public property in it (i.e. open space, in this case), the public deserves a cut of that $$. It was very difficult to actually find that the regulation even existed.

That being said, if one were to NOT charge for the portrait session, and only charge for any prints and/or digital files delivered, would that circumvent the language contained above? Or would it merely put it off until a print and/or digital file is purchased?

I understand their intent that people don't set up hot dog stands all willy-nilly, but this seems like a simple money-grab to me.

Thanks for any insight,

-Jeff



Nov 10, 2015 at 01:36 PM
andre2112
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I have heard of it. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/photo-permits/

Have you checked to see what the permit fee is? I know it's a hassle but could only be 10 bucks or so.
You know Uncle Sam has to get paid.



Nov 10, 2015 at 02:57 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Wow, thanks for the link.

$25/day, or $100/year. Not much in the grand scheme of things, but seems like the principle of the thing. I understand wanting to have control over large film crews and not wanting a taco stand at every trailhead, but seriously, if you objectively consider the actual impact of a portrait session on a park, it seems a bit over-reaching.



Nov 10, 2015 at 04:04 PM
Todd Warnke
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Jeff, I live just south of you (Castle Rock) and as a photog I get your point. That said, we have three local senior photographers that bloody near monopolize parts of a local park here. You're right that the "actual impact of a portrait session on a park" is small, but 20-30 of them a week? In a small park? It gets awkward sometimes even going to the park and feeling like you are intruding. So, if it's just you, you are right. But if it's a good spot (like Rock Park is here in Castle Rock) I bet it's not just you.

Peace,

Todd



Nov 11, 2015 at 11:29 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Wow, that's a lot. I see the most other photogs at Clear Creek (City of Golden, I only go there because people request it), but have never seen anyone else at one of the JeffCo Open Space parks that I frequent (I do so because nobody else ever tends to be there taking pictures). I might do 4 there a year, so that works out to about $25/pop, about a significant % of the sitting fee. I'd say that's pretty good money for the County. I can only imagine what one of those Denver Parks rangers would say at Red Rocks...


Nov 11, 2015 at 11:58 PM
OSOFAST
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


There is a small private/public park near here. It is touted as a artists enclave. Wanna hear some obscene rules for photographers, boy I could not believe how strict they are. Permits are high, and penalties for not having a permit go into the hundreds of dollars.
Jeff



Nov 12, 2015 at 12:44 AM
rw11
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


"rules for photographers" are probably unconstitutional and not enforceable - rules for commercial use are something else


Nov 12, 2015 at 01:18 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I think their point is that we are operating 'commercially', in these circumstances. My beef with my local county is that the language on their website suggests that they are trying to control commercial enterprises that are advertised to the public with the intent of making money. I get that, it all just seems a bit obtrusive, especially considering I paid for the park as much as anyone else.

And, it seems that their approach is that of 'affecting the user experience of the park', not necessarily getting specific with photographers.



Nov 12, 2015 at 01:36 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


And, I still wonder: if I am not charging for the sitting, only for prints or digital output, does that obviate their assertion that I am operating commercially? I know, I'd surely just piss someone off with that approach, but I still wonder if it's valid...


Nov 12, 2015 at 01:41 AM
rw11
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


yes, they are likely concerned about user experiences

I don't understand whether you have a policy issue or a legal one - lawyers handle the latter, and can write you a nice letter for not too much money.

most likely, it is a commercial use if you are making a profit (or trying to) - if you were there to document clearcutting or mining on public lands they would have a hard time stopping you - 1st Amendment and Constitution's petition clause apply



Nov 12, 2015 at 02:40 PM
andre2112
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Buy a day or even better a year permit and stop in and talk to them first. Be friendly and engaging ask about good places to go ect. Talk to them about the whole permit thing and maybe get a feel for their attitude about the whole thing. Once you establish that connection with them I bet they find better things to do then ever bother you about it again.


Nov 12, 2015 at 07:14 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


It's also just as much about you having commercial insurance so if someone is injured on your commercial shoot, no one comes to try and sue the county or state for that injury. And, in many cases, like here in Ca. with the state park system, if you have a permit for that day, it guarantees that you'll be able to shoot and you'll be able to kick out any non permitted productions, even if it's just one or two people. If I've gone to the trouble to scout El Matador State Beach, then take a client and assistant there, the most unprofessional thing I can do is risk getting kicked out because I was too cheap to get a permit. A hundred bucks for a year is just a screaming bargain.


Nov 12, 2015 at 08:32 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


To add to my post: Last year some time there was a long thread in the People forum here regarding basically the same issue, and the photographer in question thought she was above the requirements of the park in question simply because she was doing her art or whatever and couldn't imagine how her use of the area might impact anyone else's. No one's going to care if you stop and take a portrait of your kids or husband or wife, but once you are using public lands commercially, it all changes.


Nov 12, 2015 at 08:38 PM
mdude85
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I would contact the park to inquire. If they insist on a permit, that's a cost you could simply pass onto the client (and if they don't want to pay it, they can choose a different location).

But disregarding that, this seems like a lot of handwringing over a fairly minor issue. These rules are really geared toward preventing food and souvenir sales within the park. Those are prohibited for a lot of different reasons. I'd be pretty surprised if you were stopped by a ranger or other employee during a portrait session.



Nov 13, 2015 at 12:10 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I was stopped by a ranger during a portrait session, and I did contact the park to inquire. The ranger acted like I was supposed to know about the regulation, but its existence was not easy to discover, nor decipher given the specific language on their website. That led me to wonder whether the regulation's application was arbitrary on the part of the specific ranger, or universally-applied thought the County parks.

It's not that big of a deal (as I said), $100 is minor, was just inquiring as to other people's experiences elsewhere. Yes, I'll pay my $100 next year and move on to the next thing...



Nov 13, 2015 at 12:15 PM
mhp_sd
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Same thing at Cherry Creek State Park up here....


Nov 13, 2015 at 12:47 PM
thebmrust
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Just one more reason that we tend to avoid parks. I even tell clients at the first meeting "we avoid parks as much as possible" and we rarely have clients request park locations.


Nov 16, 2015 at 12:24 AM
MGARDUSA1
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I have a historical park near me that is very popular for E-shoots and senior photo's. It used to be over run by photogs and clients (some of which didn't respect the grounds) to the point where it was uncomfortable to work there. Well they took care of that, for a while now they require a permit which I think is very high $125 for a day and $500 for a year. You can take photos non commercially free.


Nov 16, 2015 at 12:45 AM
mdude85
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


Jeff wrote:
I was stopped by a ranger during a portrait session, and I did contact the park to inquire. The ranger acted like I was supposed to know about the regulation, but its existence was not easy to discover, nor decipher given the specific language on their website. That led me to wonder whether the regulation's application was arbitrary on the part of the specific ranger, or universally-applied thought the County parks.

It's not that big of a deal (as I said), $100 is minor, was just inquiring as to other people's experiences elsewhere. Yes, I'll pay my $100 next
...Show more

Gotcha -- none of this was in the original post. So were you fined, and if so did you pay?



Nov 16, 2015 at 11:43 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Permits required to shoot in County open space parks


I was not fined, first time a courtesy, and he was pleasant enough. Would have been $75.


Nov 16, 2015 at 12:25 PM
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