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Archive 2015 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

IrishDino
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

I just had my 3rd engagement couple in the past 2 months request that I don't blog their session or put it on Facebook. Which also likely means 3 weddings in 2016 that I can't blog.

For a part-timer like me, new work is kind of the life blood of my business. We get a lot of couples who book us because of the images we blog and the locations we photograph in.

For those who blog a lot of your work, how forward are you with the clients about posting their images online? We imply it on our website, but I'm wondering if I need to be more explicit in the communication.

Because if I'm honest, I'm not totally sure that I'm willing to go balls-to-the-wall (assistant, flash, ring shots, lens changes) for a session that doesn't go any further than the client's hard drive.

Nov 07, 2015 at 01:57 PM

sherijohnson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

did you ask why?

Nov 07, 2015 at 02:19 PM

amonline
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

I always mention it in the consult, and watch for their reaction. I've had a few over the years mention they don't want it either blogged or on FB. In those cases, I always honor their request. The vast majority are always on board, and look forward to seeing them posted.

I have had a few that were okay with it once they saw the images. So, always ask after they see them! (just do it in a manner that sounds like you're helping, such as "would you like me to post some optimized high quality versions on Facebook for your friends and family to see?")

Nov 07, 2015 at 02:29 PM

FrancisK7
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

Its in my contract.

Nov 07, 2015 at 02:41 PM

skg photos
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

In the contract, and discussed at consult.

Prefer no ig/fb/blog post? no problem, a privacy fee equal to 100% of collection cost is an option for those clients.

Put the line in the contract with the dollar amount; they initial it if they want it, and pay up.
No one does.

Problem solved. And no one even questions the amount. I think clients who respect your work understand that you need to show it to keep your business running.

I do let them know that I won't use last names, and if they prefer, can use fake first names. That's all they usually care about: showing up when googled for whatever reason.

Nov 07, 2015 at 06:31 PM

BSPhotog
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

In my contract, I have a section that they initial if they would like to be tagged in social media. Following that, I also have a spot for them to indicate if I can use their real name, otherwise I give the opportunity for them to select an alias instead. No one has ever chosen not to have their name used or raised any concerns...yet.

Nov 08, 2015 at 01:22 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

BSPhotog wrote:
In my contract, I have a section that they initial if they would like to be tagged in social media. Following that, I also have a spot for them to indicate if I can use their real name, otherwise I give the opportunity for them to select an alias instead. No one has ever chosen not to have their name used or raised any concerns...yet.

What do you do when the groom requests you refer to him as Dick Dickman?

Nov 08, 2015 at 02:01 AM

hendrikm
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

A little off topic:
In Germany/Europe we have much stricter laws on privacy, and the customers are much more aware. Around a quarter of my couples pay a surcharge (around 10% off the package price), so that their images are not used by me.
That hurts if you´ve a pretty bride and a great location.
The people declinining the publication are mainly lawyers/judges, teachers and surprisingly people working in computer science. I guess they can imagine what Google/Facebook will do in 5 years with the images you post today.

This is also the reason why you rarely see (complete) european weddings here, because everyone visible in the images would have to give their consent to publication

Nov 08, 2015 at 04:24 AM

IrishDino
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

hendrikm wrote:
This is also the reason why you rarely see (complete) european weddings here, because everyone visible in the images would have to give their consent to publication

1.2 and be there

Nov 08, 2015 at 06:10 AM

glort
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

ZachOly wrote:
Because if I'm honest, I'm not totally sure that I'm willing to go balls-to-the-wall (assistant, flash, ring shots, lens changes) for a session that doesn't go any further than the client's hard drive.

I gotta say, and I'm trying to be as nice as possible here, I find that statement utterly disgusting.
I can't sugar coat it any more than that.

You are taking these peoples money to provide THEM with a service. No doubt you showed them great pics and garnered confidence in your abilities and desire to produce the best possible pictures for them.
Now because you think there is nothing in it for you, you can't be stuffed living up to the expectations you created and the things you promised. If you told them you would only do a half hearted job if there was nothing in it for you, then I apologise most humbly for the inaccurate aspersion.

If you didn't tell them you'd only do your best if it would benefit you, then shame on you.

They aren't paying you to produce advertising material for yourself. How in the hell can you take these peoples money then say you are only half arsed about doing the job because there is no advertising value it it for YOU?

And before any one gives me the " it's the way we get new work" in crap ( and it IS crap) your advertising and the ability to use it as a self promo tool and doing your best for the client which IS what they are paying you for and more importantly, putting their good faith and trust in you, are 2 different things completely.
Would anyone have the balls to say to their clients " If you don't let me blog your pictures, I really couldn't be stuffed doing your pics to the best of my ability if its only for you and i'm not going to use the pics for my own purposes?
No, know damn well no one has the guts ( or conversely, isn't so stupid) to say that to a clients face.

That alone ought to tell you it's wrong. Bloody wrong.

It's up to YOU to market your business, not a requirement of your clients and frankly, if you loose enthusiasm because you think doing this work isn't going to benefit you beyond getting paid and are not putting the clients first with a commitment to do your best no matter what, I think you are in the entirely wrong game and ought to pack it in and go do something else.

You seem like a real decent guy from what I have read of your other posts but that attitude is just plain wrong. I have taken a real laid back attitude to things lately but congratulations on really firing me up again cause that statement really hit a chord.

There is no justification for this self centered attitude no matter how many people try to adopt or justify it these days. Its a real poor reflection on our industry and professionalism as well.
It's not a RIGHT to blog or use couples weddings for your own gain and self serving interests, it's a generous privilege our clients may or may not choose to allow us.
What just stunts me is the present attitude that shooters HAVE to blog every job that comes thought the door. I have never done that and more over, I would Never want to do that.

I'm far from the greatest shooter out there and i'm certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do believe in the old " do unto others" thing and karma. I try to do the right thing by people to the best of my ability ESPECIALLY when its something important and they may look back on for the rest of their lives. If I'm not committed to doing the best I can for the CLIENTS first, then I just don't take the job at all.

I could say soooo much more but no doubt I have gone against the group mentality enough already.

I'll just say I think it's time we had a reality check and ask how we'd feel as customers if the people we employed to give us what we want had the same attitude we are imposing on our clients.

Nov 08, 2015 at 07:22 AM

MattGruber
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

Almost always when someone books, they mention that they saw so and so's blog post, or photos of so and so online in some capacity. I also reference it during the booming process. I've only had one couple request that nothing go online, and I said ok. I politely asked why out of curiosity, and it's because the groom works for the government. What am I going to say? Nope, I don't care, it's going up online anyway?

Most (if not all) of my bookings come from word of mouth. If you do a great job and the couple is happy, they will still refer people to you, so I wouldn't worry about it all that much. Yes, it sucks because we want as much of our work seen by as many people as possible, but at the end of their day it is there wedding. You can't not give it your all, though. I agree with what glort said. If you go all out and balls to the walls, hopefully they refer more brides to you.

Nov 08, 2015 at 08:04 AM

IrishDino
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

glort wrote:
I gotta say, and I'm trying to be as nice as possible here, I find that statement utterly disgusting.
I can't sugar coat it any more than that.

What I said wasn't the best way to word it, I'll admit. It was written post-sesson with a lot of frustration.

There are levels to doing "the best job you can do".

What I'm saying is that I'm totally capable of shooting an engagement session by myself with one or two lenses and doing a great job - I do it all the time. But if these images aren't going to be seen by anyone, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend money on hiring a knowledgeable assistant, lugging around strobes + modifiers, and doing things occupational health and safety would deem unsafe, just so the client can get their natural light grip-and-grin.

Nov 08, 2015 at 09:43 AM

MattGruber
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

ZachOly wrote:
What I said wasn't the best way to word it, I'll admit. It was written post-sesson with a lot of frustration.

There are levels to doing "the best job you can do".

What I'm saying is that I'm totally capable of shooting an engagement session by myself with one or two lenses and doing a great job - I do it all the time. But if these images aren't going to be seen by anyone, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend money on hiring a knowledgeable assistant, lugging around strobes + modifiers, and doing things occupational health and safety would...Show more →

Just because it won't be in a blog post doesn't mean that the bride won't show all of her friends and family on her Facebook, or privately. If you do the work that she hired you to do, you can still get referrals out of it. I would use it as motivation to go above and beyond and blow her expectations out of the water so she feels she has to tell everyone about you. Take it as a challenge. Make the situation force you to provide the best work you've ever done.

Nov 08, 2015 at 10:01 AM

glort
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

ZachOly wrote:
What I'm saying is that I'm totally capable of shooting an engagement session by myself with one or two lenses and doing a great job - I do it all the time. But if these images aren't going to be seen by anyone, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend money on hiring a knowledgeable assistant, lugging around strobes + modifiers, and doing things occupational health and safety would deem unsafe, just so the client can get their natural light grip-and-grin.

.......but you would if YOU were going to blog it right??

Nov 08, 2015 at 10:13 AM

IrishDino
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

MattGruber wrote:
Just because it won't be in a blog post doesn't mean that the bride won't show all of her friends and family on her Facebook, or privately. If you do the work that she hired you to do, you can still get referrals out of it. I would use it as motivation to go above and beyond and blow her expectations out of the water so she feels she has to tell everyone about you. Take it as a challenge. Make the situation force you to provide the best work you've ever done.

For sure, I agree.

I'm more frustrated than I should be, I know.

Nov 08, 2015 at 10:13 AM

IrishDino
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

glort wrote:
.......but you would if YOU were going to blog it right??

I don't know. I suppose all these photogs giving discounts for Iceland elopements are doing it because they love freezing their butt off.

Nov 08, 2015 at 10:17 AM

glort
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

ZachOly wrote:
I don't know. I suppose all these photogs giving discounts for Iceland elopements are doing it because they love freezing their butt off.

No, they are giving discounts on the price the client is paying, not discounting the quality they will be receiving they paid full price for. The clients are getting a bonus for the Shooter wanting to use their pics for advertising, not getting a lesser quality because the shooter is pissed off can't use the pics for their own self serving purposes and has lost real interest in the job.

Lets not beat around the bush here or you try to spin doctor what you said. It's clear to all what your intentions were/ are and you won't win a debate with me trying to BS your way out of it with crap like this:

There are levels to doing "the best job you can do".

That's garbage and you know it. You have already tipped your hand that you know whats right and wrong.
There is Good, better, best, but there is no Sorta Best, OK best or I can get away with it best.

If you could do your best work on your own, clearly you wouldn't even mention hiring an assistant and multiple lenses and Lighting etc. Tha'ts a clear "tell".
I'm thick as 2 planks at the best of times but if you think I or anyone else are going to fall for that ruse, you must be 4 times thicker than I am to think you could get away with it.

You have put the noose round your own neck and trying to spin doctor it is just going to make you look non creditable and foolish. I'm not trying to embarrass you or grandstand or start a rabble rousing public lynch mob. I just think your attitude, which you have now proven beyond shadow of a doubt, is really piss poor and you need to take a good hard look at what you are thinking and saying and your attitude towards your clients and your own agenda's.

You ARE putting your own self interests before your clients and that's wrong and bloody selfish frankly. It's not for you to say no one will see them. It dosen't matter because the COUPLE will see them and that's all the justification needed x 1000!
The Couple are PAYING you for them and no doubt you promised or went to a lot of trouble to make them believe you would do your very best for them. To write the job off as doing an adequate job rather than the better job you know you could do because it doesn't suit your agendas requires a serious attitude adjustment on your part.

I'm pretty sure you'll write off what I'm saying here with your own justifications and you won't do jack different or put in your full effort into this couples pictures but that does not mean I won't call you out on it. It's wrong, it's selfish and frankly if you were a mate of mine, I would give you a serve you would not forget in a long time.

The fact you are so upset over this just shows how little you know about marketing and promoting your business. You are making the classic mistake of putting all your eggs in one basket. You shouldn't think twice if a couple says no to you using their pics, your marketing should be such that you have plenty of other pics to use. I'm putting together a new glam site atm. i'm not using every client I shot But I am using pics i took 10 years back because they are killer and I have not had the opportunity to use the locations again or they were just one off moments I was able to capitalise on.

Like said, you should be thinking about all the people the B&G will show the pictures to. If you would make the pictures "different" with an assistant and extra lenses ( !!) lighting or what ever you OWE that to the clients you took money from to do your very best not your half arsed " they'll never know the difference, it's only for them not me" bullshit "best".

You wouldn't like anyone you were paying to not do their ultimate "best" work they could on an important job that meant a lot to you, you were paying them for so don't be a bastard and short change anyone else because it doesn't suit your self interested agenda's.

Nov 08, 2015 at 10:59 AM

mirrorrim
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

There have been a few occasions in my life where I felt the person I hired didn't feel like doing "the best job they could do." They were still professional, friendly, and gave me a product I liked, but I was disappointed because I know they've done better. I hired this person after hours of research and comparison, and I hired them for THAT special thing they do. Why was I not a good enough client for them to want to put out all the stops? Everyone has an off day, but when you choose to specifically *not* do something you normally do, that's not ok.

I appreciate your honesty but I'd be careful about assuming your clients wont notice. They might not tell you, but they won't be super-over-the-moon to tell everyone to hire you either. I still remember these people.

As for your question, I talk about it at each consult. On the rare occasion someone has privacy concerns, I get into the details of why. Normally it's something really simple (no real names so they can't be googled, no faces of person X online, no getting ready pics in the online gallery for family to see) and I can still publish whatever I want within those confines. The latest was a gorgeous couple and wedding and they were ok with me only posting to my website, no social media or the big online wedding blogs. They literally said they wanted to limit the risk of their wedding photos going 'viral.'

Tough to swallow, because I'm very proud of the work I did at this wedding and I want to show it off as much as possible, but I'm glad I still at least get to post it to my website. I have enough other work to show off. However, if this was a regular thing like it is in Germany, I would most likely add a fee.

Nov 08, 2015 at 01:05 PM

FLSTCSAM
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

While I will never admit this in public.

Glort is spot on.

Sam

Nov 08, 2015 at 01:55 PM

wenkanzhu
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Permission to Blog/FB: Do you ask?

Maybe the OP mentioned is not about his serving altitude, but the eager of creation.

As good wedding photos we always want to take photos satisfying not only our clients, but also our colleagues. We challenge ourselves every time, to try more, think more etc.

However in some situations you are told your works are only required to meet the clients' expectation. Then you may still serve them with best altitude, but stop the "crazy" minds to be creative.

Nov 08, 2015 at 03:03 PM

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