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Archive 2015 · Digital Negative Experience?

  
 
retrofocus
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Digital Negative Experience?


I am curious if anybody here used or uses digital negatives to combine digital image workflow with traditional print techniques (enlarger-based and with wet chemistry for development). I really enjoy this process and I get great B&W prints from IR and B&W converted photos with this process which I don't easily get just by printing those photos digitally. I would like to share experience here and to learn from others who also have experience there.


Nov 07, 2015 at 01:19 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Digital Negative Experience?


What I have done in the past is drum scan black and white negs, retouch and tonally correct them, then output them to Res 80 or Res 120 LVT on T-Max 100 to make a new "analog" neg, which is then put in the enlarger and printed. Since I don't have a wet darkroom any more, I'm not doing that, and I don't know if the lab I used to use for the LVT output is still doing those.


Nov 07, 2015 at 01:48 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Digital Negative Experience?


The main advantage that I see of the digital negative is that it makes the enlarger redundant for traditional techniques, such as platinum/palladium and collotypes. You can make the digital negative as large as you want and contact print.

Brian A



Nov 07, 2015 at 03:03 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Digital Negative Experience?


Peter Figen wrote:
What I have done in the past is drum scan black and white negs, retouch and tonally correct them, then output them to Res 80 or Res 120 LVT on T-Max 100 to make a new "analog" neg, which is then put in the enlarger and printed. Since I don't have a wet darkroom any more, I'm not doing that, and I don't know if the lab I used to use for the LVT output is still doing those.


Thanks, Peter, for your feedback. I am currently using a different process: I print my digital negative 4x5" on suitable white foil as inverted B&W/greyscale image with my PIXMA Pro-100 printer. I was fortunate enough to get a fully equipped, nearly mint Beseler 45M enlarger for free recently which is ideal to be used for this purpose. Trick in this process is to get the tonal calibration curve right which adjusts the Inkjet printer output with the tonal range of the chemical developer. It took me a few weeks to get this right - there are several sites online which describe the process in general, but it is not as easy.

The only thing I still struggle with is with a sometimes (and not always visible) occurring diagonal dot pattern which derives from the 4x5" printed digital negative inkjet print. The pattern is sometimes visible when looking closely within the final print in whitish/greyish areas but never in the blacks. This is independent on the resolution output, negative size, and the enlarger/development process (I was able to exclude those parameters as potential error source). I checked inside the software print menu on alternative print options to choose from but so far no luck. I currently see it as the replacement of former film negative noise with little digital printer noise . If somebody has an idea where this diagonal print pattern could derive from, it would be great to share the answer here.



Nov 08, 2015 at 09:41 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Digital Negative Experience?


hugowolf wrote:
The main advantage that I see of the digital negative is that it makes the enlarger redundant for traditional techniques, such as platinum/palladium and collotypes. You can make the digital negative as large as you want and contact print.

Brian A


You are right, contact printing is another alternative option. Since I have the enlarger but no exposure box, I will use the enlarger based process for now since it allows me to print on different paper sizes with one single - I chose 4x5" - digital negative.



Nov 08, 2015 at 09:46 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Digital Negative Experience?


Peter, some large format film photographers have made digital negatives from film originals so that they could contact print large platinum prints! :-)

Peter Figen wrote:
What I have done in the past is drum scan black and white negs, retouch and tonally correct them, then output them to Res 80 or Res 120 LVT on T-Max 100 to make a new "analog" neg, which is then put in the enlarger and printed. Since I don't have a wet darkroom any more, I'm not doing that, and I don't know if the lab I used to use for the LVT output is still doing those.




Nov 08, 2015 at 01:18 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Digital Negative Experience?


Yes, of course they have. They used to often output at a service bureau on an imagesetter to a superfine halftone and then later to inkjet transparent media, neither of which was the ideal way to do it. I have one friend who at one time owned his own 16x20 LVT, but I think he got rid of that. Large format output from imagesetters was not inexpensive, but I used to gang four files on to one 8x10 T-Max LVT and that brought the individual price way down - from memory to something like $20 per image.


Nov 08, 2015 at 01:30 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Digital Negative Experience?


Here are a few scanned silver gelatin prints made from digital negatives as mentioned above. All photos were originally taken with my infrared camera and then converted into B&W.

http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v43/p1511370097-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v30/p1640377931-5.jpg


http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v69/p1502991485-5.jpg



Nov 14, 2015 at 09:03 AM
MayaTlab
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Digital Negative Experience?


There are several labs in Paris that can do both types of digital negatives (inkjet on special paper, or Kodak LVT). I'm surprised that you're using the inkjet technique combined with an enlarger - no lab in Paris does this as, according to them, the resolution of inkjet prints isn't good enough for enlargements. All the inkjet digital negatives they do are contact negatives (same size as the final print). Perhaps you don't enlarge your already rather large negatives much ?
Unless I need a contact print, I prefer the Kodak LVT technique. The digital negatives are much more resistant, can be enlarged to any print size, they have no discernible pattern and the noise is, of course, very natural. A 35mm-like negative area is enough for 40x60cm prints and you can put quite a lot of these on one sheet (to bring the price down per negative).

For both of these techniques, compared to a lambda print on B&W paper the resolution is better and you have a much broader choice of different papers (one of the things I dislike most with lambda B&W prints, in addition to the smoothening of very fine detail, is that only one neutral tone paper is available, and I tend to prefer warmer ones).

It's the technique Salgado uses for is fine art prints. He has Kodak LVT negatives made by Central Dupon : http://www.centraldupon.com
I used one of their computers once and there was a folder named "Sebastiao Salgado" on the desktop filled with pictures ready to be turned into digital negatives.



Nov 14, 2015 at 01:12 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Digital Negative Experience?




MayaTlab wrote:
There are several labs in Paris that can do both types of digital negatives (inkjet on special paper, or Kodak LVT). I'm surprised that you're using the inkjet technique combined with an enlarger - no lab in Paris does this as, according to them, the resolution of inkjet prints isn't good enough for enlargements. All the inkjet digital negatives they do are contact negatives (same size as the final print). Perhaps you don't enlarge your already rather large negatives much ?
Unless I need a contact print, I prefer the Kodak LVT technique. The digital negatives are much more resistant, can
...Show more

Well, I am glad that I seem to do something which isn't done by others . I print with my technique on quite large paper size, 14x11". The resolution output from my Pixma printer is excellent.



Nov 14, 2015 at 02:40 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Digital Negative Experience?


Printed from another new digital negative today, 14x11". The print is bigger than the frame of my scanner, so some part of the borders are cut off. The photo originally was taken in color with my Sony A7R and Canon 50/3.5 macro FD lens.

http://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v41/p1806306869-5.jpg



Nov 15, 2015 at 04:01 PM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Digital Negative Experience?


hugowolf wrote:
The main advantage that I see of the digital negative is that it makes the enlarger redundant for traditional techniques, such as platinum/palladium and collotypes. You can make the digital negative as large as you want and contact print.

Brian A


Yep, ;twas what we did in art school. Great stuff.



Nov 18, 2015 at 12:57 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Digital Negative Experience?


retrofocus wrote:
The only thing I still struggle with is with a sometimes (and not always visible) occurring diagonal dot pattern which derives from the 4x5" printed digital negative inkjet print. The pattern is sometimes visible when looking closely within the final print in whitish/greyish areas but never in the blacks. This is independent on the resolution output, negative size, and the enlarger/development process (I was able to exclude those parameters as potential error source). I checked inside the software print menu on alternative print options to choose from but so far no luck. I currently see it as the replacement of
...Show more

I believe I figured out this issue myself - the pattern was gone in the recent digital negatives which I created. It must derive from an dpi number and print size mismatch. I used a lower dpi number now with no loss of resolution, and the pattern is gone. The pattern was not affected by changing to a different paper/slide print option in the printer menu. I am currently in the process of making my own 8x10" B&W prints for my 2016 calendar. The print results are fantastic with this method!




Dec 18, 2015 at 08:05 AM





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