Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
  

Archive 2015 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy

  
 
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Hi guys, I'm trying to switch over to LR5 from another program, so I'm still very much in the early learning stages. However, a major problem I'm having is the lack of sharpness in exported images (JPG, TIFF, doesn't matter...same results for all exports).

I've uploaded an example here: sharpness comparison

As you can see, on the left side (lightroom screencap), the image is very clear...it's sharp but in a smooth way. On the right side, the exported image is extremely soft and hazy by comparison.

I've tried to compensate in a number of ways, including bumping the sharpness and/or radius way up, using the Output Sharpness options, etc. but then the images just end up looking grainy or dirty, with that "false sharpness" look you get from trying to sharpen too much in a program like PSP. It doesn't look clear but smooth like the LR preview.

My export settings, as far as I can tell, are fine. Set to export to JPEG, 100% quality, sRGB, 300 ppi, (Resize to Fit is NOT checked)...I can't figure out why this is happening. It looks perfect in LR but terrible when exported. If someone can explain to me what I'm doing wrong, and how to get the exported image to exactly match the LR preview that I spend so much time to get looking just right, I'd really appreciate the help!



Oct 25, 2015 at 03:40 PM
hugowolf
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Do you have 'Limit File Size ' checked?

Are you comparing the export and the original in Lightroom?

Brian A





Oct 25, 2015 at 04:04 PM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Hi Brian, there is nothing checked in the export settings that would mess with the quality of the file itself (resize, limit file size, etc. are not activated).

Per your suggestion, I just tried importing the JPG back into Lightroom to see how it compares within the same program, and it still looks extremely soft. Maybe a tiny bit sharper than in my usual image viewer, but negligible. Comparing the JPG to the RAW shows a huge difference in clarity regardless of whether the images are in LR or a standard image viewer. The edited RAW file is nice and crisp, whereas the JPG is soft and hazy looking.

Here's a side by side comparison of the images as they appear in LR (RAW file being edited on the left, exported JPG that's been imported back into LR on the right): Sharpness comparison within LR

I really want to make more use of Lightroom...up until now, I've been using other editors and only importing JPGs into LR to use the adjustment brush on certain images, but I was hoping to make it my primary editing program. This softness issue is extremely frustrating though, and not a problem that I've encountered with other RAW editors. I'd really like to figure out why it's happening, because I haven't found any obvious reasons so far.

Literally everything else about the edited RAW file is exporting without a problem. Color, contrast, lighting, clarity, etc. are reflecting on the exported images just fine and look identical to the LR preview...but for some reason, the sharpness shown in LR while editing the RAW file is not exporting along with the rest of the settings, as far as I can tell.



Oct 25, 2015 at 04:43 PM
schlotz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Jaiden,

Not a lot of detail provided. Specific settings would be helpful. I suggest you do a save metadata to file then make both the raw file and its .xmp sidecar file available to download. Then others can actually see the raw in final and before being adjusted. No doubt there is an answer to this.

Matt



Oct 25, 2015 at 05:07 PM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Thanks Matt, I've never done this before so hopefully this is what you need:

RAW file
XMP file

If that's wrong, please let me know!



Oct 25, 2015 at 05:20 PM
Eyeball
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Are you using the final version of LR 5 (5.7)?
There was a bug in some of the initial versions of LR 5 that did not properly apply sharpening and noise reduction when the exported image was less than 1/3 of the size of the original image.

If that's not the problem, are you using a high-res monitor?
A high-res monitor ("Retina", "4K", etc.) can give the impression of a reduced-size image being softer than the original because the original is being shown at high-res and the reduced-size image is being up-sampled to the same apparent screen size.



Oct 25, 2015 at 07:40 PM
schlotz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Ok, was hoping the xmp file would have been saved after you had edited / made develop module corrections to the photo. Regardless, looking at the raw I can tell you that it is not that sharp. The 70-200 II lens used can provide sharper results than this.

The focal point used was located on the little shinny spot on the left side of her jacket just below the hair. Note: it should have been on her eyes. Secondly, f/2.8 is too shallow and f/4.0 - 5/6 should probably have been considered. Not certain on how far this family was from the rig but assuming 15ft, the DoF would be approx 3.6" or 1.8" front and 1.8" back of the focal point using f/2.8. Since there is a number of inches here in depth that need to be sharp to cover the faces of the family, using f/5.6 would provide double the DoF and a better choice. Lastly, given the focal point that was used, I suspect the the rig could use some AFMA (AF micro adjustment) as being off just a hair could render similar soft results. Processing this photo to export to a jpg will not make it any better. JMTC

Suggest you look into the simple Dot-Tune method for the AFMA.

Matt



Oct 25, 2015 at 08:32 PM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Eyeball - I did just update to the latest version, hoping that was the issue, but the same thing is occurring.

Matt - The xmp file actually was saved from the adjusted image in the Develop module. I just right clicked > Metadata > Save Metadata to File. I'm still trying to get the hang of LR's workflow, so maybe I'm supposed to save or apply the edits first? But when I exit the program and re-enter, the adjustments to any RAW files I've made are still there when I open an image. If there's another step that I need to do before saving the xmp file, then please let me know and I'll redo it.

As for the rest, thanks for the in-depth review. It's not one of my better shots; certainly not one that I'd use for professional purposes. It was a last minute shoot for a family friend and the baby was not being cooperative, in lighting and locations that weren't great. The later shots were better, once we reached a proper shooting location but that one was just a quick point-and-shoot as we were walking through the park.

So I know that the RAW file itself isn't the best but my issue is that in LR it *LOOKS* totally different - much sharper with the touchups that were done. I see no reason why the exported file would look any different from the edited RAW file as viewed in the LR Develop module. After all, the JPG looks identical in every way to the edited RAW file *except* for the sharpness. It makes no sense to me that the JPG would reflect all of the other adjustments, but not that one. You're saying that the original file isn't focused properly and that's true but the adjusted RAW file in LR looks MUCH crisper, so it's clearly possible to tweak it to the point where it looks more acceptable in Lightroom.

As far as I can tell, it's as if every other setting has been applied to the exported JPG, but not the sharpness...that the JPG is simply keeping the original soft look of the unedited RAW file instead of applying the sharpness adjustments that were made in LR. I can accept that the RAW image is not ideal but what I don't get is why the exported JPG would look any different from what I'm seeing in LR, and only in regards to that one aspect...

*Edit* Okay, just to follow up on that, I can see now that the RAW file with adjustments does look as soft as the JPG in the Loupe module. But when I view it in Develop, the Develop module renders the preview with a MUCH crisper look. So what I don't understand is why the sharpness offered in the Develop preview cannot be replicated for the final export....or why that sharper look does not seem to apply to the JPG when I import it and view that version in Develop mode (does it only render RAW files with that added smooth sharpness?) - sorry, I'm just trying to understand how this works because it seems silly to me that a powerful program like LR can provide a preview in one mode that looks a certain way, but not export it to match the sharpness in that preview, while perfectly matching the colors, contrast and everything else.



Oct 25, 2015 at 09:23 PM
Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


jaidanwolf wrote:
My export settings, as far as I can tell, are fine. Set to export to JPEG, 100% quality, sRGB, 300 ppi, (Resize to Fit is NOT checked)...I can't figure out why this is happening. It looks perfect in LR but terrible when exported. If someone can explain to me what I'm doing wrong, and how to get the exported image to exactly match the LR preview that I spend so much time to get looking just right, I'd really appreciate the help!




I can't remember how long ago or by who but there was thread on here about export problems in LR . there seems to be an issue with exporting a 100% jpeg . drop it down to 75% and repeat .



Oct 26, 2015 at 02:40 AM
Ian.Dobinson
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


found the old thread .
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1320766/0?keyword


has a link to an interesting web page about exporting



Oct 26, 2015 at 02:44 AM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Have you installed LR/Mogrify 2 ? It's a free download (Google it). This offers you sharpening with Unsharp Mask, Borders (inner &/or outer), Watermarks, Text, Resize dimensions and so on .. stuff that's not offered, or is different, to LR's basic export options.


Oct 26, 2015 at 07:25 AM
schlotz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Understand your concern regarding exported jpg not looking the same i.e. lacking same sharpness. BTW I did re-import your raw and got all the included edits. Whew, guess you were really pushing it during the tests . So, I approached the edit as I would in my workflow, then saved two jpgs. Both had the IQ set to 75% with the resizing box unchecked but did have the resolution set to 320. First one was set to screen sharpen standard, the second to screen sharpen high.

I imported the jpgs, then look at each zoomed in 1:1 - they look basically identical. Note: I'm on LR 6.1.1 I'll send you a PM with a dropbox link so you can dload the files I worked on.

This brings me to wonder if Ian is on to something with his posts above.

Matt



Oct 26, 2015 at 07:43 AM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Thanks, Ian - I read the thread and article and tried the 75% option but there was unfortunately no difference. I downloaded the plugin mentioned as well but can't get it to work (and am not sure it would help anyway, since I don't think it controls the quality itself).

Frogfish - I will look LR/Mogrify 2 up but as I said, the issue isn't so much the lack of clarity itself...it's the fact that the image looks one way in the Develop module and different when exported, but only in regards to sharpness, while the other settings are being applied to the final image without a problem :-\

Matt - thanks for doing all of that. As you mentioned, I see no difference in the jpgs you sent either...but again, I'm completely miffed by the fact that it looks one way in the Develop module (not perfect, but MUCH better in regards to clarity) and yet there's apparently no way to replicate that on the exported files.

Did you actually compare the exported JPGs to the edited RAW file in Develop mode (with my settings or similar settings applied)? Because that's where the disconnect is for me. Yes, the original file is soft but in Develop mode, it isn't. I know I'm repeating myself but when I export the file, it retains the softness of the original instead of reflecting the look of the file as displayed in Develop mode. So for some reason, the Develop module is making the RAW file look much sharper, but that look is not being exported along with the rest of the settings, nor does Develop sharpen the resulting jpgs in the same way when they are imported and viewed there for comparison.

I feel that the Develop module, more than anything else, should be a proper reflection of what you're getting when you save the final shot. Otherwise, how can I make proper adjustments to my images if it's over-sharpening RAW files in that mode? It seems unbelievable that a major program like Lightroom would not export the exact image that you see while you're editing, so I keep thinking I must be doing something wrong. It's frustrating because I love everything else about the program, and clearly not everyone has this problem, so I'm trying to understand what's going wrong on my end.

I appreciate everyone's help! I'd really love to sort this out somehow but unless a setting somewhere is amiss, I don't really know what to do!



Oct 26, 2015 at 01:19 PM
J.Andrew
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


@jaidanwolf. Is it possible that you have an import setting somehow set that automatically sharpens? If so then it will look sharp without even touching the sharpness sliders. Then the kicker, is it also possible than an export setting undoing it? Sorry I don't know all the in and outs of Lightroom, but that may be a possibility as far fetched as it might sound.


Oct 26, 2015 at 01:35 PM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Andrew - I wish I knew! But I installed the program not that long ago, so whatever defaults were in place should be unchanged.

Since the sharpening is present within the Develop module but apparently not within the grid or loupe views, I'm not sure what to make of it. I thought maybe the Develop module has its own independent way of rendering the preview, but why would it be any different from the rest of the program? I'm completely at a loss...



Oct 26, 2015 at 01:47 PM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


jaidanwolf wrote:
Frogfish - I will look LR/Mogrify 2 up but as I said, the issue isn't so much the lack of clarity itself...it's the fact that the image looks one way in the Develop module and different when exported, but only in regards to sharpness, while the other settings are being applied to the final image without a problem :-\


That's exactly the issue I had, exported jpgs didn't match the LR view. LR/Mogrify 2 gives you unsharp mask options that have solved that issue for me (Mogrify is ONLY available when you export, not in Develop). Now I have usually have to ensure I don't over-sharpen by trying a couple of different export parameters.



Oct 26, 2015 at 02:42 PM
John Wheeler
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Hi Jaidanwolf
Any chance you are looking at a Smart Preview in the Develop Module and not the original image? You can export Smart Previews yet they are not the same quality an sharpening will not look the same either.
You can tell what you are looking at in the Develop Module via this helpx file from Adobe: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/lightroom-smart-previews.html

Not sure this is your issue you thought it was worth mentioning.



Oct 26, 2015 at 03:12 PM
dass101
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


I never experienced this before, but I can fully replicate your problem. Never noticed that LRs Develop view is sharpened in any way, but this is very obvious with your file. Makes me think that DXOs approach to only show sharpening at 100% view might actually be correct. Have you tried processing the file in any other software? How sharp could you make the exported jpeg?


Oct 26, 2015 at 03:35 PM
schlotz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


Jaidan,

As a matter of fact I have looked at it in the Develop module with your settings and compared it to a jpg created from it and sure enough the difference you speak of is there. Afterwards I toned down, how should I say it... the heavily applied settings to something significantly less than 150 sharpness amount and added lens correction. Exported that, imported it back in, compared and they are very close but off in the reds due to gamut diff between sRGB in the jpg and the raw. It appears to be something about maxed sharpness settings with exporting to jpg. New one on me.... sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Matt



Oct 26, 2015 at 04:44 PM
jaidanwolf
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Lightroom 5 - Exported Images are Soft and Hazy


John - Thanks for the suggestion but I just doubled checked and it is indeed the original photo, not a smart preview.

Frogfish - Thank you for suggesting Lr/Mogrify 2. I installed the plugin and have been playing around with the settings, exporting that image with a number of variations am getting results that are close to how it appears in the Develop module, at least *when the image is not full view.* It's not perfect but it's definitely closer to what I want.

That said, what sort of settings do you usually use for the unsharp mask? When I view the new JPG fit-to-screen it looks nearly identical to the adjusted RAW file in LR Develop...however, when zooming in to full view, it's SO noisy (which I suppose is to be expected). It would be great if I could find a way to get the sharpness shown in LR without losing the smoothness when zoomed in.

Example here: Adjusted RAW in Develop Mode vs. Lr/Mogrify 2 JPG with unsharp mask

Whatever the Lightroom Develop module is doing, it's bringing out the edges and making the overall image much clearer while still looking quite smooth. When I use Lr/Mogrify 2 to sharpen during export, it looks fine at first glance but once I zoom in, it's lost any smoothness and is just grainy and ugly. Any suggestions?

I still don't understand why a third party plugin is even necessary...I'd like to figure that out because it shouldn't take a plugin to get the JPGs looking the way the adjusted RAW files do in LR. It's happening on all of my photos, even where the RAW files were already in focus. Seems sort of unacceptable for such a major program and I can't imagine there's no way around it, since obviously countless people use LR without this issue!



Oct 26, 2015 at 05:23 PM
1
       2       end




FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.