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Archive 2015 · Very very bad photo selection

  
 
jmraso
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Very very bad photo selection


for the album !

Ok, I think I may know very well (11 years around FM) the ways many of you think and work.

Here is the story : beautiful couple and even more beautiful wedding, groom's family from Holland and bride's family from Spain, all together celebrating the wedding in one of the nicest old romanic churchs in the city and country and, then, in an outstanding venue.

12 hours working my ass to document the interaction, details shots here and there, and portraits as needed.

My standard procedure 99% of the time (that is what the couples want as they live close enough or in the Big City not too far from me) is that they see the pictures in my studio with me, so I guide them to select properly, of course, they have already seen the job online to get a first look and idea how the thing went, most of the times, we have the same selection in our minds and I, obviously, dont mind those few pictures or not so few, some times, that may not be my favourites ( as you say, it is their album and I have accepted this premise).


This time, as many others where the couple lives abroad or cant come to my studio, they selected from the pictures displayed online. Their selection is beyond that premise (it is their album): repetitive portraits of the bride and groom, it seems they like them all, too many detail shots of everything, very few (I mean, very very few) pictures of people interacting so there are huge gaps from moment to moment that doesnt allow a good flow to tell the story, etcetc.

I sold them a documentary style reportage and album with a few details and portraits to, carefully and nicely, put throughtout the album.

I know that if I use their selection for the album, they WONT get a good product (lacking of many things , repetitive, boring ...)


Adding a few pictures of my choice wont "fix" it.

I wassaped them and phoned to holland just a few minutes ago ( leaving a messege ) so I will see.

They will come round for Xmas to see the bride's family so, holding everything on till then would be the best for the album !

Comments more than wellcome !

Thanks



Oct 23, 2015 at 06:09 AM
Scott Mosher
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Very very bad photo selection


Perhaps design an album with the images they chose, then design a 2nd one with most of their images + the ones you want/need to fill out the storyline. Then they can "see" what could be.


Oct 23, 2015 at 07:28 AM
jeremy_clay
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Very very bad photo selection


As Scott said depending on how long it takes you to lay out a rough draft, I would put together your vision of it and in digital format and let them see; explain a bit your selections (you're the pro, after all) and see what they say. If not, well..they want what they want


Oct 23, 2015 at 07:46 AM
lilyphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Very very bad photo selection


Ditto to what the above 2 posters responded.


Oct 23, 2015 at 09:36 AM
MattGruber
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Very very bad photo selection


I agree with the above comments, but here's something that I don't think we give enough consideration to: the bride and groom sometimes have a different connection to certain images than the photographers do. We may want epic portraits or technical feats to make the album- after all we pour our creative hearts into these images. The couple doesn't give a shit about that- they want the images that mean the most to them. Usually these images we may consider boring or repetitive- but at the end of the day it's their album. They are the ones that will be looking at it for decades to come. It would be great if every image selected for the albums were our favorites, but like I said- the images they pick are chosen for a reason. They mean something to them.
But ya... I don't hesitate to give suggestions, especially when they pick multiples of basically the exact same shot.



Oct 23, 2015 at 09:52 AM
FrancisK7
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Very very bad photo selection


I no longer allow them to choose at the start. I show them an already done design, and give them three rounds of revision requests.

I do this now because I was tired of waiting weeks for people to select photos and I finally realized album designing was an acquired skill I had developed passively over the years and that most people don't have what it takes to make an optimal selection quickly and efficiently.

With Smart Albums 2 my design is done in 45 minutes or less. Then they see what could be. Much easier for them to go over each spread and ask for "Photo 2 on spread 5 to be changed by image 5402" and so on.

I waste less time and clients feel they are taken care of. Win win for me.



Oct 23, 2015 at 10:40 AM
jmraso
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Very very bad photo selection


Love it !

in my mind for a couple of years, though so used to my procedure plus most of my clients come from others who chose the photos so I find it not an easy change !


FrancisK7 wrote:
I no longer allow them to choose at the start. I show them an already done design, and give them three rounds of revision requests.

I do this now because I was tired of waiting weeks for people to select photos and I finally realized album designing was an acquired skill I had developed passively over the years and that most people don't have what it takes to make an optimal selection quickly and efficiently.

With Smart Albums 2 my design is done in 45 minutes or less. Then they see what could be. Much easier for them to go over
...Show more




Oct 23, 2015 at 10:51 AM
sgtbueno
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Very very bad photo selection


Thats what I always do and so far so good, only one bride made few changes.

jmraso wrote:
Love it !

in my mind for a couple of years, though so used to my procedure plus most of my clients come from others who chose the photos so I find it not an easy change !







Oct 23, 2015 at 11:17 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Very very bad photo selection


I've always shown them a pre-designed layout with my selections, 90% of people accept my design with a few image swaps (usually basically same shot but just a different frame). If things like this bother photogs, I don't know why they don't do this.

Most people aren't graphic designers and if they are not overwhelmed by hundreds of pictures and put it off, will just randomly pick ones they like without thinking about how the album will run together and the spreads will work. Imo, this is also part of why they hire us.



Oct 23, 2015 at 11:18 AM
jmraso
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Very very bad photo selection


So true !

Mark_L wrote:
I've always shown them a pre-designed layout with my selections, 90% of people accept my design with a few image swaps (usually basically same shot but just a different frame). If things like this bother photogs, I don't know why they don't do this.

Most people aren't graphic designers and if they are not overwhelmed by hundreds of pictures and put it off, will just randomly pick ones they like without thinking about how the album will run together and the spreads will work. Imo, this is also part of why they hire us.





Oct 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM
jmraso
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Very very bad photo selection


Time for a change !! a big one !!😊

Thank u all for the answers, very much appreciated !!

I will think about my new procedure tonight over a few pints of Guinness, but I swear to god I wont take any decition at the end of the night ! 😊😊😊



Oct 23, 2015 at 11:53 AM
ashton lamont
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Very very bad photo selection


Couple of thoughts:

repetitive portraits of the bride and groom

That describes the album designs of some of the top "rockstar" wedding photographers; I've never liked that myself.

very few (I mean, very very few) pictures of people interacting

That style is soooo 2007. All couples have more images than they can ever look at from all those guest smartphones and tablets. A genre we would once have called reportage. I'm not saying the quality is there, but it is sufficient to meet the clients wishes for informal people photos; some candid and others really hamming it up in the manner of those god-awful photo-booths.

We may need to make quite drastic adaptations to changing requirements if we are not to become trapped in increasingly niche sectors.

With this particular couple, if I had time I would design a 2nd album based solely on my personal tastes and tell them you plan to have it as a sample album to illustrate the style you would normally expect to supply. You would probably do that anyway as you have described it as a very nice wedding. I would avoid all the "design an album of 100 pages in 20 minutes" software at all costs. Thats not designing its just drag and drop the same as any consumer can do and it shows.

Pete



Oct 23, 2015 at 12:01 PM
jmraso
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Very very bad photo selection


Great input englishman !, and you know the sample will be from Graphi !😊

Just a little disagreement with the comparations of the smartphones and the ones we take in many areas we all know, but, eventhough, there will be hundreds from the guests, good, a few of them in facebook, and the rest lost when the smartphone dies etc, but this is not the main reason why the album has to have some of those images you describes but because that is what they will look at throughtout the years, which, in good orther and composition,make a good book ! so when they want to recall the wedding they only have to open the book.




ashton lamont wrote:
Couple of thoughts:

repetitive portraits of the bride and groom

That describes the album designs of some of the top "rockstar" wedding photographers; I've never liked that myself.

very few (I mean, very very few) pictures of people interacting

That style is soooo 2007. All couples have more images than they can ever look at from all those guest smartphones and tablets. A genre we would once have called reportage. I'm not saying the quality is there, but it is sufficient to meet the clients wishes for informal people photos; some candid and others really hamming it up in the manner of those
...Show more




Oct 23, 2015 at 12:20 PM
ashton lamont
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Very very bad photo selection


Meant to expand my answer a bit. Here goes:

Your market may be different to mine, tastes and trends and all that.

I work in the mainstream, I don't seek out clients who think they want an artist. many are very complimentary to me in that regard but I know where i stand :- ) Anyway, what leads on from that is that nearly all clients express a wish for a low key storytelling approach - nothing too formal other than the essential groups and portraits - when at the consultation stage. However when it comes to the album image specification stage - which in my case is often long after the wedding and I give them as much input as they want - those choices are dominated by what would be thought of as traditional formals. I design around that adding my own input as well obviously, and like others I get very few requests for revisions let alone big revisions.

From that experience I conclude that 1) it would be commercial suicide not to offer reportage style albums etc at the consultation stage 2) many clients of photographers who offer little or no input to their clients and always design "reportage" or "fashion" or whatever probably have many clients who having got over the initial "wow" are less happy in the long run than they might have been.

When I look at the rockstar designs I referred to earlier, such as Y-----T or G-----S I simply can't imagine any client who would want that. Obviously some do ..... or think they do :- ) Its a wedding!!!

I agree Graphi continues to be a great choice for the actual products if not necessarily for the photography styles they push :- )

Pete



Oct 23, 2015 at 03:21 PM
glort
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Very very bad photo selection


MattGruber wrote:
I agree with the above comments, but here's something that I don't think we give enough consideration to: the bride and groom sometimes have a different connection to certain images than the photographers do. We may want epic portraits or technical feats to make the album- after all we pour our creative hearts into these images.


Exactly!!

Who is paying for this album?
Whos wedding was it?
What's the purpose of these pics in the first place? For the shooter to show off their work or the couple to look back on?

I have Dutch and swiss friends and their " different" proclivities and habits are a constant source of Well meaning jokes and jibes. This cultural difference alone may be enough to explain the choice of images you are not happy with but they are. Of course personal preference is another more than valid explanation.


I have laid albums out for clients for as long as I remember. I tell them I was thinking of using them as a display album and this is what I put together. They are free to change anything they like, it' is portrayed merely as my own selections they can change any way they want. The overwhelming majority of people are lucky to change 3 pages or 5 Pics in the whole album.

They cut whole pages back as I expect and plan for but the changes I have to make to the pages are minimal.





Oct 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM
skg photos
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Very very bad photo selection


yes, predesign.
It's too much work for them to pick from hundreds of photos, and few of them are qualified to make the selection- you are the designer, not them.
If you predesign using the best photos, the ones you used for the blog and the musical slideshow, they usually leave your design alone except for minor changes.

Believe me, they view this as a service, not as some freedom you have taken away from them.
Send the design and tell them to let you know if they want anything swapped and you'll be happy to do that, and to let you know changes requested within two weeks so they can have their album in their hands sooner than later. I also mention that, if possible, they exchange vertical photos for vertical, and horizontal for horizontal; 'if they do decide to change anything'. Planting the idea that some couples change nothing at all.

I emailed a bride her album predesign last week, and she responded already with only two specific photo swaps to make among the family photos. Thats all. And she bought my top collection so it's my largest album, 40 pages, plus she ordered a duplicate parent album.
Her wedding was August 29th and she and her parents will have these albums before their three month anniversary.




Oct 25, 2015 at 08:59 PM





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