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Archive 2015 · Black Bear processing

  
 
lighthound
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Black Bear processing


I took these shots back in July when I rented the Siggy 150-600.

I'm posting the sooc images first then my corrected edits so you can see what I started with and where I took them. Except for the last image #5 where I just posted the finished version because I can't post more than 5 images.

I'm not real happy with how they turned out but would like to know how my processing looks to you folks.
I'm especially interested with how I tried to deal with my classic battle with a Cyan cast. Did I introduce any other color issues that are objectionable or intrusive in my attempt to correct the Cyan?

FYI, I think the down sizing added a little graininess / noise compared to my full size images.

Thanks for any advice!

Dave







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Edited on Oct 13, 2015 at 03:56 PM · View previous versions



Oct 13, 2015 at 09:56 AM
beanpkk
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Black Bear processing


Bears, or any black furry object are tricky. The problem is the light bouncing off their fur does indeed have a cyan cast, and getting rid of that, in my opinion, does more harm than good. The result, particularly evident in #2 and #4, is a red bear which does not look natural at all. I have hundreds of black bear photographs and I will say that the sooc images here look very realistic. Their muzzles for instance, are tan, not brown or red. Their fur can be a beautiful mahogany (they call it cinnamon) but never red.

A polarizer will cut down some of that reflection but it also uses up an f-stop or two. And you have to remember to adjust it (! which I often forget to do !).

I'd say either cut way back on the adjustment or just keep the SOOC images as they are.

Just my two cents,
keith



Oct 13, 2015 at 10:17 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Black Bear processing


beanpkk wrote:
Bears, or any black furry object are tricky. The problem is the light bouncing off their fur does indeed have a cyan cast, and getting rid of that, in my opinion, does more harm than good. The result, particularly evident in #2 and #4, is a red bear which does not look natural at all. I have hundreds of black bear photographs and I will say that the sooc images here look very realistic. Their muzzles for instance, are tan, not brown or red. Their fur can be a beautiful mahogany (they call it cinnamon) but never red.

A polarizer
...Show more

My thoughts exactly. But i do like the second one for cloning out that twig. I carry pruning cutters sometimes, but maybe not for a bear picture.

The last has the best editing and maybe the best image, I wish the mothers eyes were more visible, but the cub makes up for it.



Oct 13, 2015 at 10:26 AM
beanpkk
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Black Bear processing


I took the first image and did just a slight color adjustment, and cloned out a bit of the grass. See how you like this one.

1201971 by Keith, on Flickr

keith

PS By the way, which Sigma did you get the S or the C. I have the C and am very impressed with its IQ.

PPS If you're interested in black bear photography, no better place in the continental US than Vince Shute Wildlife Sanctuary (google VSWS). You'll have bears all around you, walking by you (you have to get out of the way!), and no ropes or fences, and they're wild bears. Cubs, mothers, big males, the whole shootin' match, depending on what time of year you go.



Oct 13, 2015 at 11:15 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Black Bear processing


Dang! My bears are red!!?

Thank you Keith for that advice and insight on these furry friends. This is why I thought I better ask because I don't see any reds at all. I was worried about that. But what about the grasses around them? Shouldn't I be removing the cyan cast until the grass or other items look correct? Did I simply go too far with my corrections?

What is the best way to expose for the black fur? Notice in the #3 sooc image how I had overexposed to get some details on the bear. Is this correct thinking in this harsh lighting or should I try to expose properly for the entire image then bump up shadows in post? I usually don't like to do that for fear of noise.

And yep, a polarizer would have helped but like you pointed out, I'd lose a few stops and with this lens I was already pushing the ISO crazy high in shaded areas to keep any speed. I should have used it in the open areas like #3 & #4 though.

I'll see what I can do with these by cutting back on my RGB adjustments.

Thanks Keith!


Yeah Ben! I'm a little crazy when it comes to getting close to these guys (as my wife can attest) but I think I would need extra long pruning cutters for that twig.

Thanks for the confirmation of what Keith has pointed out. The momma's face not showing and blurred is why I'm not happy with that shot. I was sooooo close to getting a nice shot but it just didn't work out for me. I'm looking forward to getting back up there hopefully this year.

Dave



Oct 13, 2015 at 11:32 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Black Bear processing


beanpkk wrote:
I took the first image and did just a slight color adjustment, and cloned out a bit of the grass. See how you like this one.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5766/22113509456_a6cb7817b8_b.jpg1201971 by Keith, on Flickr

keith

PS By the way, which Sigma did you get the S or the C. I have the C and am very impressed with its IQ.

PPS If you're interested in black bear photography, no better place in the continental US than Vince Shute Wildlife Sanctuary (google VSWS). You'll have bears all around you, walking by you (you have to get out of the way!), and no ropes or fences, and they're
...Show more


Other than the noise (which you couldn't help) I like it Keith. To my worthless eyes your edit looks like it has a green cast but I'm guessing that is just me. I'll use this as a guide for my colors when I tackle these again.

I rented the siggy C for this trip. The IQ was amazing especially for the price but I ended up buying the Canon 100-400II for better low light shooting. It does suck not having the reach of the siggy though. 600mm is crazy nice and I could easily handhold at that length!

Thank you much for the location tip. I've never been there but I have added it to my short bucket list. What is the best time to go there?

These shots were from Cades Cove that I had told you about a few months ago. Did you ever get a chance to go?

Dave

Edit: make that my long bucket list. I just looked it up and it's 1400 miles from my house.



Oct 13, 2015 at 11:43 AM
kylebarendrick
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Black Bear processing


I would focus exposure and colors on the bears, since that's what will draw attention from the viewers anyway and it is where I'd want my best quality (not that I'm much of a wildlife shooter). Tweaking the surroundings as a finishing step makes sense to me.

Congrats with the 100-400ii. I have been loving mine. I've been really happy using it with the 1.4x for a little extra reach too.



Oct 13, 2015 at 11:51 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Black Bear processing


Thanks Kyle! I'm shooting a cropper 70D right now so the 1.4x isn't a viable option for me. Someday I hope to snag 7D2 or similar which is an amazing combo from what I've heard and seen.


Oct 13, 2015 at 11:56 AM
beavens
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Black Bear processing


Nice bears, Dave!

The edited ones are looking too warm to me (on the work monitor) - probably a result of you trying to battle any cyans/blues.

You chose to shoot in some really tough light for this trip!

Last one is best IMO in terms of content and processing. Might want to tighten the crop, especially at the top and left. MAYBE some off the right.

Is there a reason you can't use the 1.4x with your 70D that I don't know about? I haven't really researched them all that much but I plan on picking one up for sure.

Note: This converter is only compatible with fixed focal length L-series lenses 135mm and over, as well as the EF 70-200/2.8L, EF 70-200/2.8L IS, EF 70-200/4L, and EF 100-400/4.5-5.6L. Additionally, please see the lens and/or camera body manual for full autofocus compatibility information with the Extender EF 1.4X III.

Cheers!

Jeff



Oct 13, 2015 at 01:09 PM
beanpkk
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Black Bear processing


lighthound wrote:
Dang! My bears are red!!?

Thank you Keith for that advice and insight on these furry friends. This is why I thought I better ask because I don't see any reds at all. I was worried about that. But what about the grasses around them? Shouldn't I be removing the cyan cast until the grass or other items look correct? Did I simply go too far with my corrections?

What is the best way to expose for the black fur? Notice in the #3 sooc image how I had overexposed to get some details on the bear. Is
...Show more

I think the adjustments went too far, but my bias is to err on the conservative side rather than over-adjust. My wife looked at the adjusted pics and had the same reaction I did. Certainly on my monitor a red bear is not going to work. I'd say get the bear right and don't worry about the grass. As long it's close to reasonable (i.e. not purple! ) no one will look at the grass or care about it.

As for exposure, the conventional wisdom is to underexpose black objects (like bears) to they look black without losing too much detail. If you're spot metering on the bear you could try -2 EV for starters. If you're in evaluative you may need to do some compensation depending on what else is in the scene. I find that when looking at photos I'm sensitive to blue casts in reflections, but in the real world I am not! Reflected light off a bear in the sun under a blue sky will have a bit of blueness, and if you try to take that out you end up with a yellow or red bear. A black bear's muzzle is perhaps the best indicator of color accuracy -- it's tan, not dark brown or reddish or greenish. A properly exposed black object against a bright background will probably result in a blown background at least to some extent. So be it! It's tough to do HDR with moving wildlife.

I don't have a problem bringing up shadows in post....I do it all the time, but depending on the exposure and the camera there are limits to how far you can go with it. Who said "All things in moderation." I think it applies here.

I hope this helps....I offer it only as one opinion among many.
keith



Oct 13, 2015 at 01:21 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Black Bear processing


beavens wrote:
Nice bears, Dave!

The edited ones are looking too warm to me (on the work monitor) - probably a result of you trying to battle any cyans/blues.

You chose to shoot in some really tough light for this trip!

Last one is best IMO in terms of content and processing. Might want to tighten the crop, especially at the top and left. MAYBE some off the right.

Is there a reason you can't use the 1.4x with your 70D that I don't know about? I haven't really researched them all that much but I plan on picking one up for sure.

Cheers!

Jeff


Hey Jeff Thanks! I've been wondering where you were at. Did you head out west yet?

Yeah, when us pro photog's reach the ultimate level of expertise we must search out new and challenging things in our photography to keep things interesting. Like shooting black bears and little white dogs on super bright, blue sky sunny days. Okay, the reality is that I'm just a dumbass but it's fun to dream.

Thanks for the crop suggestion on the last image. When I tackle back into these I'll take a look at that. That image has already been heavily cropped though so I'm kinda running out of pixels. It was shot just as they crossed the road in front of me and I can't stand pavement in any wildlife or landscape shots.
Now if I had Ben's camera I could make it a nice close up portrait of just the cub and have plenty of pixels left.

From what I understand you can use the converters on the 70D and some other croppers but you lose AF. Which for me at least means it don't work. And with moving critters I would be screwed without AF servo.
Now for manual focus folks like yourself, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

Dave
---------------------------------------------

beanpkk wrote:
I think the adjustments went too far, but my bias is to err on the conservative side rather than over-adjust. My wife looked at the adjusted pics and had the same reaction I did. Certainly on my monitor a red bear is not going to work. I'd say get the bear right and don't worry about the grass. As long it's close to reasonable (i.e. not purple! ) no one will look at the grass or care about it.

As for exposure, the conventional wisdom is to underexpose black objects (like bears) to they look black without losing too much
...Show more

Thanks yet again Keith for the info. I would have never have guessed or thought about underexposing when shooting black furry critters. This is a huge surprise to me as it's completely opposite from what I thought. I've always been under the impression you want to capture as much detail as possible with all subject matter. Heck I got me plenty of under exposed shots of these guys. Maybe I have some others I could take a fresh look at.

I think I've pushed my photography obsession a little too far with my wife. When I ask her how my photo edits look all I get is the eyes rolling to the back of the head and a brief "yeah, they look nice" as she walks away.

This was my first attempt to go in and mess with the RGB values individually to try and correct my cyan issues which is why I posted these specifically to find out if I was even close. The red and green issues that you see is non existent to my eyes so your input is greatly appreciated here Keith.

It sounds like I need to address this part of my editing like I try to do on the rest of my post work and keep repeating to myself as I'm editing....
Less is more...less is more... less is more....

Dave



Oct 13, 2015 at 03:37 PM
beanpkk
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Black Bear processing


Dave,

No worries, it seemed counter-intuitive to me too! But if you think about it the meter in the camera wants to make things neutral gray (the 18% gray card or whatever), so if you don't under-expose a black object it will come out too much toward neutral gray. The same is true in the other direction for white objects. Ever shot a snow scene and had the snow come out grayish? I have (!) and what you end up having to do is raise the exposure in post to make the snow white. Pure black with no detail is about -3 EV, black with detail is -2 or so, pure white is +3, white with detail is +2 or so, etc etc. 18% gray is +0. Or -0 depending on your mood that day :-).

I totally understand the obsession and wife thing. To be honest my wife's opinion about whether an image is good or bad or better than the other on or whatever is far better than mine. Mine is too technical -- she is looking at the image as an image. I bet it's the same for you and yours. Explain to her that her opinion really does matter ad maybe she'll have a different attitude. Slightly different, anyway ;-).

You're brave to try to edit RGB values independently. I've tried that and succeeded only in making a hash of the image.

Best,

keith



Oct 13, 2015 at 04:03 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Black Bear processing


Okay. I reworked this one from scratch and tried all the suggestions. I cropped just a little more off the top and left side per Jeff's suggestion. I left the RGB adjustments alone and didn't make any changes to any colors other than dropping the vibrancy and saturation down just a little. I applied a fair amount of shadow recovery and selectively sharpened the little guys eyes and face. A little D&B here and there with a small amount of cloning tossed in there for good measure. Other tweaks like vignette and a little USM hit on just the bears.

How does this one look overall? Specifically, any color issues?

Thanks!

Dave

Edit: Just noticed I grabbed and edited a slightly different one than the one I posted above. My bad.







Oct 13, 2015 at 07:14 PM
beanpkk
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Black Bear processing


I think you improved it greatly over the first edit. Nice job. And yes, it is certainly a very tricky lighting situation.

keith



Oct 14, 2015 at 02:18 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Black Bear processing


Last one is sweet.


Oct 14, 2015 at 03:50 PM
lighthound
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Black Bear processing


Thanks Keith and Ben. I'll process the rest of my shots the same as I did here on the last image. I'll have to make minor variations of course but I should be able to get them within reason.

Dave



Oct 14, 2015 at 05:34 PM
kylebarendrick
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Black Bear processing


I like seeing the extra separation between the cub and sow in that last edit too. The fact that mom is looking away from the camera a little more hides some of the blurriness too. Works for me!


Oct 14, 2015 at 05:49 PM
beavens
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Black Bear processing


Been kinda busy lately with work/life! Nope, we'll be heading out in a week and a half.

Ah yes - you might lose AF. I'm no expert with manual, just suck with AF!

Jeff

.edit I also like your latest rework the best!

lighthound wrote:
Hey Jeff Thanks! I've been wondering where you were at. Did you head out west yet?

From what I understand you can use the converters on the 70D and some other croppers but you lose AF. Which for me at least means it don't work. And with moving critters I would be screwed without AF servo.
Now for manual focus folks like yourself, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

Dave





Oct 15, 2015 at 07:29 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Black Bear processing


kylebarendrick wrote:
I like seeing the extra separation between the cub and sow in that last edit too. The fact that mom is looking away from the camera a little more hides some of the blurriness too. Works for me!



Thanks Kyle. The momma's face is the main reason I'm not real happy with these particular cub shots. I was so intensely focused on getting the shot of the cub I didn't notice the motion blur happening on the mom. Of course I didn't have much time to make any adjustments anyhow as this happened so quickly and they were gone in less than 1 minute.
I have a few of just the cub but I really wanted a nice one of momma standing over her baby. I thought about yelling over to her to ask if she would look my way but I decided that wasn't a very good idea.

Dave
---------------------------------------------

beavens wrote:
Been kinda busy lately with work/life! Nope, we'll be heading out in a week and a half.

Ah yes - you might lose AF. I'm no expert with manual, just suck with AF!

Jeff

.edit I also like your latest rework the best!



Thanks Jeff. I trust that someone will tell me if there is any major color issues still. It sounds like I got it this time I hope. I got off track because I was trying to remove any cyan from them and I took things a little too far and ventured into territory that I should not have gone into.

Hope you guy's have a great trip and nail some great shots!

Dave



Oct 15, 2015 at 08:57 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Black Bear processing


Shutter speed is your friend for wildlife. Too often we are so impressed with what IS can do that we forget about subject motion. I used to do yellow headed blackbirds setting on reeds, using a tripod. The birds don't move much but it took at least 1/250 to freeze the beak which vibrates during the call.


Oct 15, 2015 at 10:44 AM
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