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Archive 2015 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8

  
 
Frogfish
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


Even though I have a Zeiss MP 100/2 I'd like a smaller relatively fast 75-90 for use on my A7 (and soon to buy A7r). I've been going through the Leica thread and the R90/2 (3 cams) shots just pop, I love the rendering, sharpness and bokeh, from both the non APO ASPH and APO versions but only the former is within budget. The 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M could also be an option if it comes within budget (US$800) and competes on IQ and MFing with the above.

I used to own the Pentax 77 / 1.8 Ltd, a simply wonderful, sharp, lens with gorgeous rendering and bokeh and it certainly has that '3D pop'. I was using it on a K5 and I regret having sold it (it was the last PK mount lens I sold bar the Cosina 55/1.2 which I still hold) before the Sony A7x range came along. It does show some PF in high contrast shots.

77 Ltd samples for those that don't know this lens :

https://pixelpeeper.com/lenses/?lens=1047
http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-FA-77mm-F1.8-Limited-Lens.html
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/130-lens-sample-photo-archive/153218-pentax-fa-77mm-f-1-8-limited-samples.html

Does anyone have any experience with MFing these two/three lenses ? I'm a little dubious that the 77 Ltd (being such a small lens) will be easy to MF. Any comments on the differences between the three lenses ? The R90/2 seems to be a very popular Leica lens but the R90/2.8 is much cheaper and I've seen some gorgeous examples from EBookman on this forum, especially the superb bokeh. Any focusing differences between the 90/2 and 90/2.8 ?

Other any suggestions / comments welcome !

Edited on Oct 12, 2015 at 02:56 AM · View previous versions



Oct 11, 2015 at 02:07 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


A couple of sample shots from the K5+77 Ltd






Oct 11, 2015 at 02:30 AM
nampramos
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


I have been using the Tele-Elmarit-M 2.8/90 for a little over two weeks and I am really enjoying it. You can beat the size of this lens. It is tiny at only 60mm long and very light. Never shot with the other ones but honestly, I am not really interested in even trying now that I have the TEM. What is the usual price for them in Shanghai?

Here are a few shots:

DSC09219.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09170.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC08248.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC08282.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09581.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09544-Edit.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09627-Edit.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09613.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09625.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

DSC09670.jpg by Nuno Ramos, on Flickr

A few more here, all the last ones are from the TEM https://www.flickr.com/photos/nampramos/



Oct 11, 2015 at 02:54 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


Beautiful work Nuno ! There is a lovely clean M version going for US$600 but otherwise they are the same as the R90/2 (non-APO) which is ca. US$750-850.


Oct 11, 2015 at 03:16 AM
inglis
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


The R90/2.8 looks to be sharper in the corners from the MTFs (Leica Pocket Book), but many like the bokeh of the R90 2, especially for portraits. I have the latter on the way for considerably less. Depends in part on which filter size you require.
John



Oct 11, 2015 at 07:55 PM
banpreso
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


i love the R 90 summicron and i don't have any experience with the pentax 77. i also have the zeiss 100 MP

the R 90 summicron has wonderfully smooth bokeh which i love for portraits. 100MP is also great but some can complain it being too clinical with wrinkles

if you are using a mirrorless body, for the money of the R 90 summicron you can also consider the FD 85L, obviously another wonderful lens for portrait and bokeh.

if you are really interested you can try my copy




Oct 13, 2015 at 12:16 AM
Chris_88
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


I don't have the two other lenses, but the Elmarit 90 2.8 is highly recommended. It is my second most used lens behind the 55 1.8. It's beautiful, light-weight, has that Mandler look wide open, but at the same time handles the a7r and a7rii's demanding sensors very well. I have never had any trouble focusing it. I'm not good at MF'ing fast glass, but the 90 2.8 works for me in that category.


Oct 13, 2015 at 04:12 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


banpreso wrote:
i love the R 90 summicron and i don't have any experience with the pentax 77. i also have the zeiss 100 MP

the R 90 summicron has wonderfully smooth bokeh which i love for portraits. 100MP is also great but some can complain it being too clinical with wrinkles

if you are using a mirrorless body, for the money of the R 90 summicron you can also consider the FD 85L, obviously another wonderful lens for portrait and bokeh.

if you are really interested you can try my copy



That's a really nice offer - thanks ! It would be good to meet up for a chat and coffee sometime. I'll PM you.




Oct 13, 2015 at 02:15 PM
p242
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


I happen to have all 3 of them and a7r. I use the Pentax 77 most often since I like it for portraits but also as short tele for landscapes stopped down and it is the smallest and lightest of them. The R90/2 I only use for portraits. I'm not sure if I've used the R90/2.8 since I've got the other two but I loved it on my K-5 (leitaxed).
Focusing the Pentax 77 on a7r is ok, but not as pleasant as a real MF lens. The ring is small but textured and the throw is long enough with hard stop on infinity so I have no problem nailing focus.
Much better than trying to manual foucs the regular non-"Limited" Pentax FA/F lenses for sure.



Oct 13, 2015 at 06:11 PM
JonPB
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


While I have a Summicron R 90, I'd go for an Elmarit if I were to replace it. The Summicron is a brilliant portrait lens, but I rarely shoot those. The Elmarit appears to have smoother bokeh, higher resolution, smaller size, and lower price. I'd also go for a later model; global contrast is relatively low on my ca. 1975 Summicron, and I think Leica improved its coatings sometime around when it moved toward bodies with standard, screw-in filters rather than series filters.

Note that the APO 90 is less expensive in M mount than in R mount, although the Elmarit is favorable in R than M.

Cheers,
Jon




Oct 13, 2015 at 06:49 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


i haven't shot with any of those (ok played a little with the elmarit m), but i really like the m 90 cron pre-asph, which is nearly identical optically to the R version. my vote would be to look for a deal on the m cron just because of the smaller size (and supposedly slightly better performance than the R) or a used m sumarit.

the cron is very sharp from wide open in the central 2/3 but with a bit of SA that i like for portraits. stopping down to f/4 gets rid of the SA completely and stopping down to f/5.6 gives you very good corners.

lens on camera:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7636/16394235143_1114810f96_b.jpg
lens compared to the very small contax g 90/2.8 both with adapters:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7628/16988383296_e29fd45c04_b.jpg
some shots with the lens:
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8872/18350256296_b30f7a4184_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8883/18106643129_e26ef28278_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7715/16424104523_09cd9cface_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8812/16431375283_e9dc2e4332_o.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8707/16396140653_ae759076b7_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5780/20981949488_ed274f893f_o.jpg
i believe all are wide open except for the church (f/8) and the SF skyline (f/4 and a stitch).




Oct 14, 2015 at 04:06 AM
nampramos
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


Hard to beat the size of the TE though. Would be cool to see it next to the 90/2.




Oct 14, 2015 at 04:13 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


Beautiful Sebboh. The size comparison to the G90 gives me a very good idea of size since I used to have that lens.

Edited on Oct 15, 2015 at 08:15 AM · View previous versions



Oct 14, 2015 at 06:29 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8




nampramos wrote:
Hard to beat the size of the TE though. Would be cool to see it next to the 90/2.

http://s17.postimg.org/irwbscpwf/DSC03612.jpg


the 90 TE is pretty much the same size as the contact g 90 so that comparison I posted gives a good idea.




Oct 14, 2015 at 11:19 AM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


sebboh wrote:
i haven't shot with any of those (ok played a little with the elmarit m), but i really like the m 90 cron pre-asph, which is nearly identical optically to the R version. my vote would be to look for a deal on the m cron just because of the smaller size (and supposedly slightly better performance than the R) or a used m sumarit.

the cron is very sharp from wide open in the central 2/3 but with a bit of SA that i like for portraits. stopping down to f/4 gets rid of the SA completely and stopping down
...Show more

Hi Kevin,

As Derek has mentioned, you may want to consider the M 90mm f2.5 Summarit.

Rich






90mm Summarit Cropped with Hawk's Hekicoid V5; f11, A7r tripod mounted







90mm Summarit; f16, A7r tripod mounted







90mm Summarit cropped, f2.5, A7r hand held







90mm Summarit. f11, A7r tripod mounted







90mm Summarit, f11, A7r tripod mounted




Oct 14, 2015 at 11:38 AM
pinholecam
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


As you already know well, the 77ltd is unique for an AF SLR lens (size, build, rendition).
MF wise, its more loose compared to a full MF lens, but certainly more damped than other FA series non ltd lenses.
Certainly fine for MF imo (YMMV)
The throw is sufficient to not coarsely miss focus and there is the high contrast of the Pentax lenses that somehow gives a very WYSIWYG focus confirmation between EVF/peaking and actual focus.
This is not something that I can say is the same across lenses, esp the lower contrast old ones (non-Pentax).


Use wise, its really an in-between of 50mm and a 85mm on FF.
The working distance to subject, the type of distance to subject that gives good bokeh and isolation.
As such, a bit more versatile if just used as a walkabout lens as opposed to a 85mm, but a bit more shy a working distance for street shooting than a 50mm.

Great for everything imo.
Very nice lens and so portable that it gets brought out very often.
The latter being really something that I value a lot and is often hard to mention as a pro when discussing lenses on forums.

DSC0808120140509ILCE-7 by jenkwang, on Flickr

Graduations of the Sun on Nature by jenkwang, on Flickr

20121222-IMGP2512-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr

20150619-DSC03694-2400 by jenkwang, on Flickr





Oct 14, 2015 at 05:44 PM
nampramos
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8


sebboh wrote:
the 90 TE is pretty much the same size as the contact g 90 so that comparison I posted gives a good idea.



I actually just came from a local shop that has a used 90/2 for sale and it is much bigger and way way heavier than the TE90/2.8. I was thinking I could buy it since the price is actually quite good but after having it in my hand I forgot that straight away. Did not even bother to shoot it.

It is still 1 stop faster hte 90/2 and probably performs better at f/2.8 than the TE, but is that worth double the price and much bigger and heavier? I guess it is 100% personal opinion.



Oct 15, 2015 at 04:37 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Leica R90/2 (non APO ASPH) v. Pentax 77 Ltd v Leica 90/2.8




nampramos wrote:
I actually just came from a local shop that has a used 90/2 for sale and it is much bigger and way way heavier than the TE90/2.8. I was thinking I could buy it since the price is actually quite good but after having it in my hand I forgot that straight away. Did not even bother to shoot it.

It is still 1 stop faster hte 90/2 and probably performs better at f/2.8 than the TE, but is that worth double the price and much bigger and heavier? I guess it is 100% personal opinion.


yeah, it's a lot heavier and fatter, but only 1.5cm or so longer, which is the important dimension for me. I don't actually like the TE though at all for portraits, so it was never really a consideration - to slow to shoot indoors, no glow, and a rather harsh look to it imo a bit like the g90 that I only use for landscape.




Oct 15, 2015 at 11:42 AM





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