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Archive 2015 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?

  
 
ahaug
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


I want to play with a nd filter and am considering the "breakthrough" 6 stop or 10 stop filter. There is a big price jump from the 6 to the 10 stop. My question is if I take multiple images and layer them with a 6 stop filter ... will it give me a similar look as one image with a 10 stop? Or does it just not work that way?


Oct 09, 2015 at 03:57 PM
killersnowman
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


Probably depends on the image but from what i have seen of layered short exposures to simulate a long exposure is that they look weird and never quite right. I think the images from this article back me up...


http://www.digitalphotomentor.com/how-to-create-a-long-exposure-look-using-photoshop/

Maybe if you started with exposures that had some sort of movement it would be better but its hard to beat just a straight up LE



Oct 09, 2015 at 04:28 PM
ahaug
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


Thanks for the input. so its 10 stops then


Oct 10, 2015 at 07:46 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


ahaug wrote:
Thanks for the input. so its 10 stops then


You have to be sure you actually 'need' a !0-stop. Breakthrough actually have a nice advice section on which filter is best suited to which use. 10 stops can often be too much for certain applications people may have thought it was designed for. They recommend a 6-stop for most general uses.




Oct 10, 2015 at 08:08 AM
jharter
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


The marginal cost of a 10 stop ND filter above whatever filter you might like pales to the time cost of merging many frames. The 10 stop filter is much easier if you need it.


Oct 10, 2015 at 11:20 PM
ahaug
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


I am looking to do some very long exposures of water (rivers and streams) and skies with cityscapes and bridges as my constant. I'd be shooting in the golden hours so that should get me ahead on the long exposures. I really want that smoothed out water look and the movement in the skies.


Oct 11, 2015 at 10:52 PM
Frogfish
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


ahaug wrote:
I am looking to do some very long exposures of water (rivers and streams) and skies with cityscapes and bridges as my constant. I'd be shooting in the golden hours so that should get me ahead on the long exposures. I really want that smoothed out water look and the movement in the skies.

As I mentioned in post #4 above Breakthrough themselves recommend a 6 stop for water. Check their website !

You can always add a polariser (good idea for water) for an extra 1-2 stops and then decrease your aperture size (e.g. F8 to f11 or f16) if you need another stop or two.



Oct 12, 2015 at 04:00 AM
nntnam
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


It seems that the guy in that link used very fast shutter speed as he had no tripod. The result will look much better if you can take like 10 shots at 1s and merge them together.

I have LEE 10 stop filters but don't always use it because I hate its blue-ish color cast. I'm not good at color correcting so sometimes I end up with a photo with weird color (can somebody show me how?). Anyway nothing can replace a 10 stop filter during mid-day if you want to catch the motion of cloud or water .



Oct 12, 2015 at 04:35 AM
ahaug
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


I did just read the breakthrough article that recommends the 6 stop for landscape in the golden hours. I do think that I'll try that first and possible stack layers if I want more. Thanks again for all the input.


Oct 12, 2015 at 08:30 AM
GroovyGeek
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


10 stop is way way way too much for water except in the middle of a bright sunny day. You need a few tenths of a second for water to capture movement yet retain texture. I use my 10 stop mostly for cloud steaks. Not to mention that composing with one is a PITA, except for the we big stopper. If you plan on using a screw on one doing so with a 2.8 or wider lens makes life easier, you are able to use live view most of the time.

ahaug wrote:
I am looking to do some very long exposures of water (rivers and streams) and skies with cityscapes and bridges as my constant. I'd be shooting in the golden hours so that should get me ahead on the long exposures. I really want that smoothed out water look and the movement in the skies.




Oct 16, 2015 at 12:11 AM
drewmey
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


GroovyGeek wrote:
10 stop is way way way too much for water except in the middle of a bright sunny day. You need a few tenths of a second for water to capture movement yet retain texture. I use my 10 stop mostly for cloud steaks. Not to mention that composing with one is a PITA, except for the we big stopper. If you plan on using a screw on one doing so with a 2.8 or wider lens makes life easier, you are able to use live view most of the time.



Although I generally agree, I wouldn't say everyone is looking to retain texture in the water 100% of the time. But 10 stop is more useful for cloud movement.

As far as the color cast in the Lee Big Stopper (and Little Stopper), although the entire image tends to have a blue cast, I always found it even. Therefore, I could easily clean it up by changing white balance (before or after the image was taken).



Oct 16, 2015 at 03:05 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


If you look at the images on the Photomentor site you see the waterfall does not blur seamlessly. Stacking shorter exposures is nowhere near the same effect as Neutral Density and a single longer exposure.

This is a major shortfall with digital cameras. No low ISO settings to choose from. No 25 as we had with film and definately no ISO3 like we had with Kodak Tech Pan. Stratospheric ISO's are all over the place and those of us who like low and slow are left out. "Add a filter" sounds good but having the option of low ISO settings is what some of us would much rather have. Then when we "add a filter" it is more for creative purposes rather than to overcome digital design flaws and shortcomings.



Oct 17, 2015 at 03:58 AM
kiddik
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


As someone who lives in a country where every other amateur photographer (and professional landscapers) owns a 10-stop or a 6-stop, and as someone who used to own the Lee Big Stopper (10stops) and now has the Little Stopper (6stops), I'd like to echo what GroovyGeek says. The only justification for the 10-stop is if you want to blur out clouds in the middle of a sunny day, otherwise it's overkill and in my opinion, if you're shooting during the golden hour, the 10-stop introduces too much vignetting and heats the sensor too much during such long exposures, you get a lot of "dead pixels". The 6-stop is much more practical, gets you the same effect in most scenarios but with lesser time and, you can actually focus through it with Live View, which you can seldom do with the 10-stop. So personally I'd recommend the 6-stop, it gets used much more often of the two by those who own both, at least judging by the crowd that I hang with here in Iceland.


Oct 17, 2015 at 04:22 AM
rick2906
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


I just order the little stopper!! I had the 10 stop and it is way too much! the 6 stop will be way more useful. The best of course is to have the 1,2,3 stop nd filter also.


Oct 17, 2015 at 05:26 AM
Frogfish
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


Daniel Smith wrote:
......This is a major shortfall with digital cameras. No low ISO settings to choose from. No 25 as we had with film and definately no ISO3 like we had with Kodak Tech Pan. Stratospheric ISO's are all over the place and those of us who like low and slow are left out. "Add a filter" sounds good but having the option of low ISO settings is what some of us would much rather have. Then when we "add a filter" it is more for creative purposes rather than to overcome digital design flaws and shortcomings.

Both my Sony A7 and D800E go to ISO 50. Just a single stop above your 25 and easily recoverable with a 1 stop shutter speed or aperture adjustment.



Oct 17, 2015 at 11:30 AM
m.sommers00
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


As a long-time 10stop user, I'm leaning towards having a 3 stop to capture water motion but not blurring out the currents.

It's a good medium area I feel.



Oct 17, 2015 at 04:15 PM
daggah
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 10 stop nd vs multiple images?


Frogfish wrote:
Both my Sony A7 and D800E go to ISO 50. Just a single stop above your 25 and easily recoverable with a 1 stop shutter speed or aperture adjustment.


Just so you know, the D800's "ISO 50" is really an ISO 100 image that's then brought down 1 stop after the photo is taken. You'd achieve the exact same result by using ISO 100 with +1 exposure compensation and then bringing it down 1 stop in post...and both have the same problem with clipped highlights as well.



Oct 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM





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