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Archive 2015 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Luvwine
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

I have read a lot of good things about Sony G 90/2.8 macro. Of course, new lenses always generate a lot of excitement and it usually takes some time before the truly great are recognized or those that are merely good are so categorized. I understand that the Sony 90 has fine autofocus capabilities as well as in lens stabilization. However, for macro, such capabilities seem less important to me. MTF graphs are helpful, but it is very hard to compare the best macro lenses on a purely MTF basis as MTFs are not available for some and are not truly comparable for various other reasons if they do happen to be available. Has anyone done any rigorous (or semi-rigorous) testing of the Sony FE Macro 90/2.8 in comparison to the best legacy glass? In particular, lenses that tempt me include: Leica R 100/apo macro elmarit and the Voigtlander 125/2.5 apo. Also, I am aware of the Zeiss ZE/ZF 100/2 makro as I used to own the ZE version. I know there have been comparison tests of these three in the past on a Canon body, It think, but I don't know about the performance on more recent sensors. Also, I am not aware of any comparison between the new Sony and these older (and other older) lenses. Does the Sony compare optically? If so, how does it stack up? I am pretty sure that I remember that the conclusion of prior testing is that the Zeiss Makro was likely the sharpest, but that the Leica was close and better corrected for the troublesome CA that can creep in particularly with wet or reflective subjects.

Thanks for any thoughts/info.

Edited on Oct 06, 2015 at 02:57 PM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2015 at 11:36 AM

austinschutz
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

If you are really serious about macro - and it sounds like you are - maybe considering one of the 180mm macros by Tamron, Sigma or Canon, or the Nikon 200mm. Obviously much larger, but depending on what you are shooting, the working distance would be awesome. I have no experience with the lenses you mention, otherwise I would comment more directly.

Oct 06, 2015 at 01:47 PM

freaklikeme
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

How is it you plan to use the lens? Are you looking for a good all-around 90-100 that can go down to 1:2 if necessary, or are you looking for a dedicated macro lens, either for a specific purpose like coins or bugs or a multitude of tiny things?

Just a note- the APO Macro-R is an Elmarit. The Elmar (f4) is a good lens, but not as well corrected. However, it take tubes well, which the AME does not, so if that's how you want to get better than native magnification, it's something to consider.

Oct 06, 2015 at 02:37 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

freaklikeme wrote:
How is it you plan to use the lens? Are you looking for a good all-around 90-100 that can go down to 1:2 if necessary, or are you looking for a dedicated macro lens, either for a specific purpose like coins or bugs or a multitude of tiny things?

Just a note- the APO Macro-R is an Elmarit. The Elmar (f4) is a good lens, but not as well corrected. However, it take tubes well, which the AME does not, so if that's how you want to get better than native magnification, it's something to consider.

As Brad has indicated, the Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit does not accept extension tubes well. However there is available an Expensive 1:2 to 1:1 Elpro that screws to the front of the lens that does well. It also will due well with the Leica R 2X Apo Extender that can substitute quite well for the Elpro though you do end up with an f5.6 lens and may opt to stop down an additional stop or 2 for optimum performance at least in some instances. Additionally, the R 2X Apo extender with the 100mm Apo-Macro-Elmarit will yield a 200mm Apo lens and both the special Elpro and the 2X Apo Extender can potentially both be used at the same time with the 100mm Apo-Macro-Elmarit yielding a 200mm Apo Macro lens that can yield 2:1 magnification.

Rich

Oct 06, 2015 at 02:58 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

I don't have a specific agenda. I can get pretty close using Leica M wide angles with close focus adapters, but I would like to get a real macro lens for shooting bugs, water droplets, leaves, parts of flowers, focus stacking and the like. While having a lens that can do more is great. I certainly have no objection to versatility, but am most interested in macro capabilities. However, I don't want to use a Canon MPE-65 (don't need 5x!)

Oct 06, 2015 at 03:01 PM

gyoung143
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Macro lenses come in different focal lengths, 'standard'(about 50-55mm for full 35mm frame) are generally used for flat copy work or where the subject is of reasonable size.
If the subject is small and perhaps Three dimensional, and you want a longer distance between camera and subject to ease lighting or for better perspective a longer focal length is useful, tradionally about 90mm but there are some longer, 150 to 180mm, for even smaller items.
Having used them and larger format equivalents for very many years I cant conceive of any use for auto focus for such stuff!
And any will give better results than using a lens designed for taking pictures at longer distances, particularly wide angles with extension tubes which are unlikely to be sharp at the edges for a variety of optical reasons, especially curvature of field.
Gerry

Oct 06, 2015 at 04:39 PM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

I have seen comparisons between the latest Sigma APO 150 and 180 that can easily hang with lenses like the Leica 180 Elmarit APO (probably the second sharpest in the Leica R line-up) at far distance while having the ability to go to 1:1. If you think you don't mind the weight and possibly slow AF speed on the A7RII (idk since they have Sigma HSM, ultra-sonic motor), they make the most sense for macro. My second suggestion would be the CV 125 APO, better than both Zeiss and Leica offerings IMO.

Otherwise Coastal Optics 60 Macro would be a top contender if money is no object. And if you don't deal with bugs or moving subject, I think I would rather spend money on an Otus to get the best all-rounder.

Oct 06, 2015 at 07:08 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

hiepphotog wrote:
I have seen comparisons between the latest Sigma APO 150 and 180 that can easily hang with lenses like the Leica 180 Elmarit APO (probably the second sharpest in the Leica R line-up) at far distance while having the ability to go to 1:1. If you think you don't mind the weight and possibly slow AF speed on the A7RII (idk since they have Sigma HSM, ultra-sonic motor), they make the most sense for macro. My second suggestion would be the CV 125 APO, better than both Zeiss and Leica offerings IMO.

Otherwise Coastal Optics 60 Macro would be a top...Show more →

At far distance I believe the sharpest long R lenses may be the 280mm f4 Apo Telyt and the 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lenses. Overall the 180mm f2.8 Elmarit Apo Telyt is better corrected than the 180mm f3.4, but I believe at close to infinity the 180mm f3.4 may be sharper and this is the focal distance performance that this lens was designed for the US Navy. The R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit is close to the performance of the 3 mentioned lenses at distance and is a super performer close up. Depending upon preference and specimen any of the Leica R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit, Zeiss 100mm, or the CV 125mm Apo lenses may be best at least at different distances and f stops. There are also differences in the Bokeh for all three lenses with supporters in each camp, along with the overall "look" and color rendering, etc. Of the 3 lenses, the R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit offers the greatest number of options to supplement the lens with accessories developed and designed for the optic.

Rich

Oct 06, 2015 at 07:36 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

naturephoto1 wrote:
At far distance I believe the sharpest long R lenses may be the 280mm f4 Apo Telyt and the 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lenses. Overall the 180mm f2.8 Elmarit Apo Telyt is better corrected than the 180mm f3.4, but I believe at close to infinity the 180mm f3.4 may be sharper and this is the focal distance performance that this lens was designed for the US Navy. The R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit is close to the performance of the 3 mentioned lenses at distance and is a super performer close up. Depending upon preference and specimen any of the Leica...Show more →

Rich, have you or anyone else tested the 180 3.4 apo versus the 180 2.8 apo at distance? I would not be surprised if the 3.4 was as good at infinity given its heritage, but being an older lens and having been superseded by the 2.8 apo, I would be surprised to learn it was better. Of course, having just bought a 180 2.8 apo (arrived today!) I don't want to hear I bought an inferior lens for landscapes! 😜

Appreciate the other info, but so far no one has approached the query of whether the very fine legacy glass is optically superior to the Sony G 90 FE lens..... Should I infer that no one knows?

Oct 06, 2015 at 08:30 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

How about the new Samyang/Rokinon/Etc macro offering? I have heard good things about it....

Oct 06, 2015 at 08:54 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Luvwine wrote:
Rich, have you or anyone else tested the 180 3.4 apo versus the 180 2.8 apo at distance? I would not be surprised if the 3.4 was as good at infinity given its heritage, but being an older lens and having been superseded by the 2.8 apo, I would be surprised to learn it was better. Of course, having just bought a 180 2.8 apo (arrived today!) I don't want to hear I bought an inferior lens for landscapes! 😜

Appreciate the other info, but so far no one has approached the query of whether the very fine legacy glass is...Show more →

I have not compared the 180mm f3.4 versus the 180mm f2.8 myself. When stopped down to f5.6 or possibly f8 the 180mm f3.4 really performs extremely well at of near infinity.

You may want to look at this link:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/997354/0?keyword=leica,180

Rich

Oct 06, 2015 at 09:01 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

naturephoto1 wrote:
I have not compared the 180mm f3.4 versus the 180mm f2.8 myself. When stopped down to f5.6 or possibly f8 the 180mm f3.4 really performs extremely well at of near infinity.

You may want to look at this link:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/997354/0?keyword=leica,180

Rich

Yes, I have read that thread and many others. I have simply never seen a comparison where the older lens was deemed better at distance. I am sure it is great and likely as good especially stopped down. In part, I got the 2.8 so that I can use the 1.4x extender as that gives more versatility. That the 2.8 is basically at its best from wide open also helps with the loss of light using the extenders. Still, the 3.4 is lighter and cheaper and a great lens by any measure. I have not found the mtf for the 3.4 tho I have not looked very hard. Would be interesting to compare.

Edit: Reading Puts, he says 2.8 apo better until F4. At 5.6 on at infinity, both lenses equal. Read p. 8 on this link:

http://www.summilux.net/perso/teiki%20arii/Puts_Column_180-280_mm_Leica_R_Lenses_en.pdf

Oct 06, 2015 at 09:39 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Luvwine wrote:
Yes, I have read that thread and many others. I have simply never seen a comparison where the older lens was deemed better at distance. I am sure it is great and likely as good especially stopped down. In part, I got the 2.8 so that I can use the 1.4x extender as that gives more versatility. That the 2.8 is basically at its best from wide open also helps with the loss of light using the extenders. Still, the 3.4 is lighter and cheaper and a great lens by any measure. I have not found the mtf for the...Show more →

Also look at these:

http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-apo-telyt-r-3-4-180mm-long-time-experience-t35576.html

http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/leica-apo-telyt-r-180mm

http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-APOTelytR-180mm-f34-950

Rich

Oct 06, 2015 at 10:07 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

naturephoto1 wrote:
Also look at these:

http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-apo-telyt-r-3-4-180mm-long-time-experience-t35576.html

http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/leica-apo-telyt-r-180mm

http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-APOTelytR-180mm-f34-950

Rich

Rich,

I have read them all. I get a bit anal in researching. I suspect Puts gives us the most informed and objective view. I think you may have responded to my earlier post before I edited it to include the link to his conclusions.

Oct 06, 2015 at 10:12 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Luvwine wrote:
Rich,

I have read them all. I get a bit anal in researching. I suspect Puts gives us the most informed and objective view. I think you may have responded to my earlier post before I edited it to include the link to his conclusions.

I purchased my 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt in about 1985 in M/M- condition and have never replaced it. However, I added the 280mm f4 Apo Telyt at the end of 2012 which I use instead of my 280mm f2.8 that I purchased new in 1986? For my needs I prefer the 180mm f3.4 with the 280mm f4. Weight and size of the both lenses is an issue for me. I often use the 1.4X Apo Extender with my 280mm f4 Apo Telyt. This combination is even sharper than my Canon new FD 500mm f4.5L which is my next focal length. I have not compared my 280mm f4 Apo Telyt with my 2X Apo extender with the Canon. Leica Camera USA loaned me the 400mm f2.8 and the 800mm f5.6 Modular Apo Telyt lenses for a month in 1998. Remarkable optics, but I could not afford the 800mm lens in 1998 and did not want to spend the money for the lens at today's prices. Besides the extreme weight of the lens. Like Doug (telyt) we are now both using the Canon as our longest lenses.

Rich

Oct 06, 2015 at 10:27 PM

Greggf
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

As far as Legacy glass goes, I just picked up a Bokina(Tokina AT-X 90 2.5 macro) about a month ago. Incredible lens! It only does 1:2, but you can get a 1:1 adapter also. And it comes in several mounts, too. It not only does great macros, but is dead sharp at infinity, too. I would almost say, wide open to stopped down, it could hold its own against my 50 Lux ASPH or even ZM 35D!! I've been posting lots of pics with it mounted on my modded A7r in the FE thread.
Gregg

Oct 06, 2015 at 10:52 PM

freaklikeme
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Luvwine wrote:
Thanks I edited my post. I get confused by some of the lens names. Summicron, summilux, summarit......you get the idea! I am somewhat better with barolo, barbaresco, brunello, barbera....

Ah, a wino, eh? I agree, the naming conventions are confusing. Beware the day they become crystal clear. You may find yourself living under a bridge in a fort you've made of shipping boxes, fending off people who want to steal your lovely lenses.

Luvwine wrote:
I don't have a specific agenda. I can get pretty close using Leica M wide angles with close focus adapters, but I would like to get a real macro lens for shooting bugs, water droplets, leaves, parts of flowers, focus stacking and the like. While having a lens that can do more is great. I certainly have no objection to versatility, but am most interested in macro capabilities. However, I don't want to use a Canon MPE-65 (don't need 5x!)

Agendaless is good. You're exploring. I don't have any experience with the Sony to share. I've owned and loved the Leica AEM 100 for seven years, but I hardly ever use it past 1:4 or so anymore. A bit less than two years ago, I picked up a Mamiya Bellows-N that has independent tilt and swing on the front standard, and that has made a bigger impact to my close-focus shots, beyond two-dimensional reproduction, than the optical quality of the Leica, because it allows me to control and maximize the DoF without hitting diffraction-problematic f-stops. So my "best" macro lens looks like this...

a7_Lux35_The_Rig by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr

And draws like this...

a7_SPlanar135_BW_Tea_Rose by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr

I realize that's not the most portable solution, so I've been working on putting together something like this...

Rodenstock_105 by Bradley Clemens, on Flickr

I like the Rodenstock Rodagon-N 105 that's on there well enough, but it has a very long flange distance, so even with a 35-90mm helicoid, I can only get down a little past 1:3. I worked out the necessary shims for the Tele-Elmar 135/4 head today, so I'm going to try it with that tomorrow. The Kipon tilt/shift adapter is a bit limited in its movements, but it's still better than not having them.

Oct 06, 2015 at 11:47 PM

Lee Saxon
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Glancing at eBay, the CV125 seems to be going in the $2200 range and the 100AME in the $2000 range. That's pretty similar, but if you look at their original prices the CV is inflated while the Leica is a bargain. The CV has stayed inflated for several years now, but long-term I'm not as confident it will hold value, if that's something you care about.

Oct 07, 2015 at 01:47 AM

gyoung143
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

If you want some movements on a bellows unit for macro another option is a Nikon PB4 which has cross and swing on the front standard. A short F to E adapter would be useful to get more options.
I used to use it in the studio to photograph furniture with a bellows lens head too with 'drop front' to keep the legs parallel.

Gerry

Oct 07, 2015 at 03:05 AM

MAubrey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Best Macro for Sony A7r2?

Lee Saxon wrote:
Glancing at eBay, the CV125 seems to be going in the $2200 range and the 100AME in the $2000 range. That's pretty similar, but if you look at their original prices the CV is inflated while the Leica is a bargain. The CV has stayed inflated for several years now, but long-term I'm not as confident it will hold value, if that's something you care about.

If you're patient and shop strategically, you can get the CV for $1500. They pop up at that price for buy-it-now a few times a year.

Oct 07, 2015 at 01:06 PM

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