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Archive 2015 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...

  
 
Keaty
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


I typically tend to stick with landscape photography, but I decided it was time to give shooting the Milky Way a try. I recently celebrated my 30th Birthday by spending a weekend camping at Mt. Laguna. I took the opportunity to set up my camera, aiming straight up through the trees at my camp site to get this image. Aside from composition, the biggest hurtle that I had with this was the noise issue. I'm sure there isn't much I can do about that short of purchasing better equipment (I'm still shooting on a used Canon 550d that I bought a couple of years back, with cheap glass). ISO 3200, f/2.8, 20 sec, 24mm. However, I thought maybe some of you would have some tips to point me in the right direction?

And for a more serious question for the professional landscape photographers...I've been studying geology in college since last fall. I took two of my geology classes in my first semester and absolutely loved them and got 100% on all assignments and exams. Lately, however, school has been more of a struggle. I'm in my second semester of chemistry, third semester of maths, and frankly I'm completely bored with it, and the grades show. I went from a straight A student, to barely getting Cs this semester. There is more to the story than just "being bored," however, I'll save the details and just say that my motivation to continue in a STEM field is fading, although I still enjoy geology and study the subject in my free time quite often. Lately, though, I've been considering alternative majors in case I wash out from the STEM fields. I never considered majoring in photography since it has always been one of my hobbies, and I tend to try and keep work and leisure separate, but I'm beginning to reconsider the possibilities. I let my twenties slip away when I spent 5 years in the Marine Corps...which was fine, it was a duty that I wanted to serve and I figured there was plenty of time to enjoy life when I get out of the military and go to college. A year into college and I'm realizing that all of my time is consumed by sitting inside studying (which is why I haven't been on this forum much lately ). So, my question is, at what point is it okay to stop going for the thing you would like to do as a career, and start going for the thing you just like to do? Is a career as a professional landscape photographer plausible? I know there are several successful landscape shooters out there (many on the forum), but is it likely for one to make this into a legitimate living? Or, should I just suck it up and quit my damn whinnin'? All thoughts and opinions welcome.




Thanks for viewing!



Sep 14, 2015 at 02:37 PM
JimFox
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Hey Dustin,

Certainly this is a nice first shot at shooting stars, but as you probably know, there is a long way to go with this shot. What were your settings for shooting first off? There is tons of noise in this as you noted, also the Milky Way colors are totally wrong, it should be more of a white/gray color with perhaps some brown in it. Yours is just pixelated purples and blues.

For sure, the camera will make a huge difference when shooting stars. The better high ISO quality of most of todays cameras will produce a much nicer image in the end.

A lot of Canon users have switched to the Sony A7R or A7RII bodies. Those two along with the Nikon D800D810 will probably give you the best results. But... you will see plenty of people posting very nice shots with Canon bodies like the 5D3, etc.. So in your case, moving up into a new camera body will make quite a difference, but it still takes exposing for the stars properly to get a really nice star shot.

The lens will make a difference too. Lot's of good choices depending on what camera you are shooting with. A good generic choice is the Samyang 14mm which can be gotten for about $400. It's really a wonderful bargain.

As to being a full time Landscape Photographer, I will say it's going to be a whole lot harder now than it used to be. I would say a good portion of those who are shooting Landscapes professionally are supporting themselves not from the photos they sell, but from the Workshops they run.

Back in the film days, there were a lot less of us photographing landscapes, so less professionals. Today, with the advent of Digital, a whole lot more people started shooting more than just snapshots, and so a whole lot more people decided to become professional Landscape photographers. So the field is much more crowded. Some people like Klaus sell lot's of prints, others sell some prints but focus more on making their money from leading Workshops.

I don't know how good your landscape work is, being able to include stars in with landscapes is huge today, just scroll through our forum here, there will be tons of Milky Way shots. So you will need to for sure improve there, but as evidenced by this thread, you are seeking to improve.

Maybe some of the guys like Mark Metternich can jump in and give their two cents on this. But my gut feeling is that if you have to ask if you should go for being a Landscape photographer full time, then you shouldn't do it. Because most people who are really driven to do something, don't have to ask. So go finish up College, and shoot on the side. Make a side business of it. Lot's of people in here do that, and the benefit is they can just enjoy their photography and not get stressed out if the bills will get paid each month.

Hope that helps,

Jim



Sep 14, 2015 at 04:00 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


My guess from your Mt Laguna post is that you are local to me in San Diego, and probably attending the Geology Department of SDSU. Very good Geology Department by the way. Don't give up on Geology, it opens a world of opportunity once you graduate. Yes, Geology is one of the most difficult majors there is because of all the cross discipline STEM study required. It is also one of the most time demanding of any under graduate programs because almost every class has labs, and many have weekend field work. When I did mine, I was in class or field more than 40 hours each week when my friends in other majors were in class about 12 hours a week. Don't let it get you down. The first two years are the worst. The upper division classes are fantastic, but no less demanding.

Once you graduate you will get a job with one of the highest starting salaries of any major, and will get paid to travel, and explore the World. A super profession to augment an avocation in photography.

Just ruck up and get it done, you are a Marine, so I know you are tough enough....



Sep 14, 2015 at 05:37 PM
Keaty
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Jim, thanks for the input! You covered a lot of information here. Very much appreciated! You bring up a good point about the colors being wrong. That, among many other things, is something I will work on in future images. I knew as I was posting this image that it isn't great, but that's okay, constructive criticism is great for improvement. As for the settings, ISO 3200, f/2.8, 20 sec, 24mm.

I plan on sticking things out for the rest of the semester to avoid making any hasty decisions about education/career path. At some point I have to stop and think, "is it really worth all this hassle?", but I'll see how this semester finishes up and go from there. Either way, I would still like to take some formal courses in photography one day as I think it would really help me excel in my shooting/processing techniques, however using the G.I. Bill doesn't give me much leeway as far as selecting electives goes. It's pretty much all the core maths and sciences lumped together to get the degree as quickly as possible (maybe taking so many intense courses at once is part of the problem). Either way, until I have the time or means to take formal courses to hone in on those technical details, I'll continue to rely on folks like you for feedback Thanks again!



Sep 14, 2015 at 05:41 PM
Lynn Ross
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Hi Dustin,

I'm not the person to talk to about college but a lot of people go to college to figure out what they want to go to college for and then find something completely different than what they started out going for. I say stay in school or slow it down so that you can get out with your camera more and figure out if it's for you or not. College will get you into a job that can help you get more gear +++

Jim gave you some sound advice, I for one find that photography is a great hobby and a nice break from things going on in my life and don't need the stress of having to make sure all my photo's look good enough for a person to want to purchase them (that's was a dream for me at one time) ...
Having a website to show them, and up loading keeping them safe from other people that like them and want to you know what...

Here are a few sites that I love to get info on star photography ....

http://www.lonelyspeck.com/astrophotography-101/
http://www.davemorrowphotography.com/p/tutorial-shooting-night-sky.html

They give some great tutorials for what your wanting to do, there are others out there for the landscape stuff you want to do also and even more on how to process them it's daunting sometimes.

Well any way enjoy the camera world till you can get better gear and figure out where you at ...

And thanks for your service!

Lynn



Sep 14, 2015 at 05:46 PM
Keaty
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


1bwana1, thanks! Your statement keeps me pumped about geology! I'm actually at City College right now trying to get all of the core classes out of the way as SDSU requires all of this to be done before I transfer. After the transfer, it will be mostly major-related courses, It's just getting through all these other classes at the same time is burning me out. It's good to hear some positive feedback coming from someone who knows about the geology major from experience. Thanks for the input!


Sep 14, 2015 at 05:49 PM
Keaty
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Thanks, Lynn! I will keep those links in my favorites for reference. It's funny you mentioned the website thing...I created a website a little while back to try selling some of my stuff on the side...I make a few sales here and there, but I don't really have the time dedicated to promoting it a whole lot, or shooting to increase the number of images I have print-ready. www.dlwphoto.com is the url if you care to take a peak. Having the website is fine now as I have it all set up the way I like it, but man was it a pain to get started and figure everything out!


Sep 14, 2015 at 06:00 PM
dgdg
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Jim gave great advice.
There is a great advantage to completing college and obtaining a Bachelor's degree in something - even if you never 'use' it. Once you are older, it is much harder to go back to school. Now is your time to do this.
Start learning photography now and make a side business. Build up your portfolio and experience.
Learn how to create and manage your own website.

Everything you learn in college can be important. Even if you don't use the math, or the chemistry, or whatever, it teaches you how to think, be patient, solve complex problems, persist, and become an independent learner. Of course you don't have to go to college to be good at these things, but it sure helps.

Find a major you have a passion for that might be employable. Maybe you want to change your major to business if science and math already drive you nuts.

David



Sep 14, 2015 at 07:37 PM
Rockskipper
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Where to start? I have a minor in geology and often wish I'd majored in it (i'm an archaeologist and writer). My brother is working on his MS in geology, his last semester. If I had a dollar for every phone call from him telling me he's ready to quit, I could buy a pro camera and then some. Seriously. These calls started in his fresh year, too. Geology is not an easy major - it has a high dropout rate. Part of this is because of the math and chem and other hard classes. You struggle through each one, no matter how smart you are or how hard you work. It's the nature of the beast. You're busting your ass while everyone in other majors is cruising along. And it never ends - semester after semester.

Stick it out. Once you get through the pre-reqs and into the actual geology, it can still be hard, but it's now interesting again. You won't usually need to remember all the hard stuff (calculus, chemistry) except for a few basics in order to do well. Everything shifts. And once you're done, a whole new world awaits you. Even if you're not into the extraction industry side of things, you can still get a good job and do well.

And if you're into landscape photography, it's the perfect combo. You can get a field job and spend a lot of time photographing things while making enough to buy top-notch equipment from the geology job. If you save your money, you can take off for a year or two or three and travel and do photography then go back to work when you need cash. In some ways, it's the perfect profession for a landscape photographer. And then if you get really good and can start making money from your photography, you're set, but you'll also have the geology skills to fall back on. And geologists tend to be pretty cool people to work with and have as friends. But it is a long haul - but the rewards are worth it.

Best of luck.

PS And a lot of your peers are also getting Cs - if not outright failing -their math and chem classes. It's actually more common than not. One of my profs said it was rare to have geology majors get As in their core non-geo classes. A few have to take them twice.



Sep 14, 2015 at 07:47 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Keaty wrote:
1bwana1, thanks! Your statement keeps me pumped about geology! I'm actually at City College right now trying to get all of the core classes out of the way as SDSU requires all of this to be done before I transfer. After the transfer, it will be mostly major-related courses, It's just getting through all these other classes at the same time is burning me out. It's good to hear some positive feedback coming from someone who knows about the geology major from experience. Thanks for the input!


Yeah, being at City College instead of SDSU makes it even tougher. The good news is that everything changes for the better when you make the transfer to SDSU. You will be headquartered in the Geology building with fellow Geology students and Instructors. You will be part of a community of wonderful people who share common interests and goals. It is an amazing experience. I suggest that when you are feeling like you can't do it, go on over to the SDSU Geology department for an afternoon. Meet the people there including instructors. They will support you, and it will help you see how close better days really are.

Sort of Geology School Semper Fi!!!




Sep 14, 2015 at 08:24 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Keaty wrote:
I typically tend to stick with landscape photography, but I decided it was time to give shooting the Milky Way a try. I recently celebrated my 30th Birthday by spending a weekend camping at Mt. Laguna. I took the opportunity to set up my camera, aiming straight up through the trees at my camp site to get this image. Aside from composition, the biggest hurtle that I had with this was the noise issue. I'm sure there isn't much I can do about that short of purchasing better equipment (I'm still shooting on a used Canon 550d that I bought
...Show more

I am not a professional photographer or a very good night photographer yet, so I will just give you advice on your education.

I graduated from electrical engineering tried it for a year and was bored. The projects happened too slowly for me.However, I found that I liked financial/economics/statistics and that the math was easy but fun. Now after more than 3 decades I am VP of finance/regulatory/communications at a large company - way different than my education. Its challenging and fun at work and on the weekends I have the money to pay for my chidrens education/houses etc and -- most improtantly travel lots and spend lots of time taking lanscapses and wildlife.

There is two ways to enjoy photography - being a professional photographer or being a really good hobbiest photographers. You will be surprised based on what I have seen that a really good photographer is first and foremost a really good marketer (most money is now made on workshops), a really good photoshop guy, and determination. If you have to get by on selling pictures - good luck if you don't like marketing/selling.

My point is - it does not matter what you graduate from - but it matters that you graduate. The people you meet and rigor in thinking is what your achieve. And you will change directions throughout your career.

Finish you school and then do photography on the side. It takes a long time to be a good photographer. You might find you love geology. Or after a couple of years you might find computers related to geology links you into comptuers, links you into... But geology gets you out to remote locations where you take pictures and will allow you to have a wife and children. What a job is like and what school is like are significantly different.

Good luck.




Sep 15, 2015 at 01:21 PM
Keaty
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A first attempt at the night sky + a question for the landscape photogs...


Thanks for all the input, folks! It's good to hear everyone's opinion on this. I also questioned several of the students in class today, mostly the ones in my age category, and they all seem to be having similar issues so I guess I'm not alone.

Rockskipper, it's interesting that you mentioned archaeology. I took an archaeology class as an elective a couple of semesters back. I ended up hitting it off really well with the professor and he invited me to come work with him on some of the sites he was working on down in Mexico and some spots in San Diego County because he wanted a geology student as part of his team. It was a fun experience. Of course, I didn't know as much about the archaeology field as the people I was working with but I did a lot of the mapping of the sites we were at for his report and made a few interesting finds as well.

1bwana1, I hear great things about SDSU's geology program all the time. I think I will take your advice and check it out soon. It would be nice to meet some of the staff and get an idea of what the program is like. It'll probably be good for keeping the motivation up as well.

Scott, there is a lot of truth in your statement! I was an aviation mechanic in the Marines, specializing in airframes and hydraulics on F/A-18s. When I got out, I wanted to work for a year to save up for school and found a job at a private aviation company. I was hired as a hydraulic technician, but as soon as I was on the payroll the boss-man says, "Know anything about avionics and electrical components?" Of course, I didn't, but that ended up being the majority of the work I did for that company. In fact, I never touched a hydraulic component the whole time I worked there. It's funny how things can change once you get your foot in the door.



Sep 15, 2015 at 06:46 PM





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