Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Landscape Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2015 · Badwater, Death Valley

  
 
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Badwater, Death Valley


Anyone hoping to get some interesting shots of the salt hexagons on the salt flats at Badwater will be very disappointed!
They now look like an extension of the Devils Golf course!
No warning from the Rangers that the landscape had changed so radically!
Very disappointed with National Park Service as I wasted a couple of hours and fuel in driving there to find a muddy brown mess!
Be warned!





Badwater Salt Flats




Sep 13, 2015 at 01:44 AM
JimFox
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Badwater, Death Valley


Hi Graham,

Have you been to Badwater before? There are parts that look like this, and then parts that look like salt polygons. Where in Badwater were you shooting in reference to the Badwater parking lot?

I am not sure why you are disappointed with the NP Rangers. When was it that they were supposed to let you know? Had you called and talked to someone specifically about the Salt Polygons in Badwater?

Jim



Sep 13, 2015 at 03:10 AM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Badwater, Death Valley


Hi Jim,
We've been to Badwater on many occasions, the last being two years ago.
Normally we avoid the main parking area and head further down the road where the polygons are less likely to have been trampled on!
However, this year, as I said 'almost all of the salt flats' are a dirty brown, with the exception of the strip from the car park.
As you will know this is heavily used and there are few , if any, polygons, even if you walk a considerable distance onto the flats.
The condition, I guess is due to a combination of environmental conditions that prevailed earlier in the year?

As to the Rangers, we always check in, and 'chat' about the places we want to visit and photograph. At no point did they mention about the 'fundamental' change to the area! And it is a very fundamental change!!!
That's why I am disappointed!

Fortunately during the month we've been here in the USA, we've seen and photographed a wide variety of landscape and as usual have enjoyed ourselves immensely.
Apart from Badwater, the only other negative was for the second time in 6 years we were prevented from visiting Eureka Sand Dunes due to road closures. But, that's something over which we have no control over and have to accept.



Sep 13, 2015 at 10:07 AM
Ben Horne
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Badwater, Death Valley


If you drive up to Dante's view to get a look from above, you'll see where the white salt flats are. I can understand feeling a bit disappointed that you didn't find them on this trip, but I don't quite understand your overall sense of disappointment especially toward the rangers. One of the things I've learned over the years is that change provides wonderful opportunities -- and sometimes those opportunities are better than what you originally had in mind. The white salt flats with the polygons have receded a bit to the North. It's an area I call the North Shore -- maybe a mile or so from the road.

On the plus side, at least you realize it's a natural process that people don't have control over -- unlike this Yellowstone visitor that doesn't have a clear understanding about wildlife. http://www.outsideonline.com/2011846/yellowstone-visitor-upset-bears-didnt-show




Edited on Sep 14, 2015 at 01:31 AM · View previous versions



Sep 13, 2015 at 10:23 AM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Badwater, Death Valley


A few more from Badwater.



© Grahamc 2015

The few Polygons found.





© Grahamc 2015





© Grahamc 2015





© Grahamc 2015




Sep 13, 2015 at 10:45 AM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Badwater, Death Valley


Thanks for the information Ben.
All of these processes are dependent on the environment, it just so frustrating at times.
But, that's what landscape photography is all about! Meeting, adapting and recording the changes that go on around us!



Sep 13, 2015 at 10:49 AM
matthewsaville
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Badwater, Death Valley


Graham, if you feel this way about your visit to Death Valley, I can highly recommend sitting down to a relaxed weekend afternoon of watching Ben Horne's Youtube videos about his many adventures in the Southwest. Personally, I have found them to be a great catalyst in my own pace-slowing, and photographic patience that can last days, months, or even years, plus a general appreciation for the wild unpredictability that is our planet.

In other words- "sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar, well, eats you."

I must be honest, I've actually never seen the iconic polygons anywhere near Badwater Proper. That area has always been either all white and smooth, (after a rain or flood, as in 2005) ...or all brown and bumpy, as you point out much like Devils' Golf Course.

The best polygons are found elsewhere in the area, in spots that are a bit more off the beaten path.

The landscape there changes so often, that I've never even seen the "dots" from a Google Earth satellite view. It's always just a low-res mess. In-person exploration and scouting is always best, even if it means you spend an entire vacation / adventure not getting any masterpiece photos. (Another thing I learned from Ben Horne) You might be able to get a better idea from Dante's view if you have a long enough lens, though.

The incessant changing of the landscape is probably the exact reason that rangers don't even know the current conditions in every corner of the Badwater general area. However they might have been able to point you in a good direction if you had specifically asked, "where are the best polygons currently?"

Anyways, I most enjoyed the 2nd image you shared, It looks like a beautiful depiction of one of Badwater's natural "looks", the stark contrast between smooth, pure white and dark, bumpy brown. The other images (to my own personal taste only) are a bit too dramatic, with heavy highlight / shadow "wrestling" going on.

Take care, and travel safe,
=Matt=



Sep 13, 2015 at 04:16 PM
Greg Campbell
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Badwater, Death Valley


You're mad because you didn't get the shot you think you somehow deserve?

Yeek.

Perhaps you ought to stop and ask yourself WHY you picked up a camera in the first place? Are you looking to get outside and immerse yourself in the scenery, playing with the subject and light and the POV, and generally enjoying the experience? Or is it all about dragging a cookie-cutter "Me-Too" Trophy Shot back to share with the Camera Club crowd?



Sep 13, 2015 at 07:26 PM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Badwater, Death Valley


Greg!
Your comment is hardly called for!
I've been picking up cameras for over 60 years and enjoying every minute of my hobby!
I am not and never have been a member of a camera club. Though what that has to do with my comment regarding the situation at Badwater I fail to see!
I find your comments patronizing and not very helpful.
As you can see from my post I tried to make the best of the situation.

But having visited Badwater on several occasions I have always succeeded in getting some shots of the polygons from further down from the parking lot. But even this has changed. I am more than able and willing to travel for a photograph (one of the reasons I've been coming to this area and Alaska for the past 12 years) it was however disappointing that no one thought to say the environment had changed that dramatically.

Anyway, I don't see why I should justify my comments to you! As I said
'Anyone hoping to get some interesting shots of the salt hexagons on the salt flats at Badwater will be very disappointed!
They now look like an extension of the Devils Golf course'

I STAND BY THAT!



Sep 13, 2015 at 10:42 PM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Badwater, Death Valley


Matt - you miss the point!
I really enjoy all aspects of Death Valley, however, we were on a tight schedule and left Badwater until the last evening.
Perhaps that was the reason for my disappointment.
I was advised a number of years ago not to try photographing around the Parking area but to head further south and walk onto the flats, where polygons of good shape and size were to be found.
The last time we were there, three/fours years ago they existed and I got some shots which I quite liked, but were not outstanding. Hence my revisit - to try and improve!



Sep 13, 2015 at 10:48 PM
JimFox
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Badwater, Death Valley


Greg Campbell wrote:
You're mad because you didn't get the shot you think you somehow deserve?

Yeek.

Perhaps you ought to stop and ask yourself WHY you picked up a camera in the first place? Are you looking to get outside and immerse yourself in the scenery, playing with the subject and light and the POV, and generally enjoying the experience? Or is it all about dragging a cookie-cutter "Me-Too" Trophy Shot back to share with the Camera Club crowd?


Hey Greg,

This is a pretty rude comment, perhaps you need to come down out of your glass tower and walk among us common folk? Shooting an iconic location doesn't make our photos a cookie cutter or some trophy. And for most us common folk, its a joy and thrill to capture a scene simply for ourselves.

Your hate and despise towards well known locations is well documented as evidenced with your "Jackalope" comments anytime Antelope Canyon is referenced. Just because you don't like a location does not mean you can be rude and insulting to others and to the locations they want to visit.

There is nothing wrong with someone being disappointed because a location has changed. Especially if it's a location that is thousands of miles away or perhaps on a different continent. Obviously Graham went and shot other compositions, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with his being disappointed that the white salt polygons were not in the area we are used to them being in.

Jim



Sep 14, 2015 at 03:22 AM
JimFox
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Badwater, Death Valley


Hi Graham,

Of your added photos, #3 and 4 really stand out to me. I sure like the light you captured in those.

Jim



Sep 14, 2015 at 03:24 AM
Ben Horne
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Badwater, Death Valley


Grahamc wrote:
Thanks for the information Ben.
All of these processes are dependent on the environment, it just so frustrating at times.
But, that's what landscape photography is all about! Meeting, adapting and recording the changes that go on around us!



Thank you for posting some more photos from Badwater. Of the new images you added, I really like the 1st and 3rd. Both of them are stronger than a typical badwater polygon shot. That definitely ties into what I said in the original message -- that sometimes we don't find what we're looking for, but that provides the opportunity to perhaps find something better.



Sep 14, 2015 at 09:23 AM
matthewsaville
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Badwater, Death Valley


Grahamc wrote:
Matt - you miss the point!
I really enjoy all aspects of Death Valley, however, we were on a tight schedule and left Badwater until the last evening.
Perhaps that was the reason for my disappointment.
I was advised a number of years ago not to try photographing around the Parking area but to head further south and walk onto the flats, where polygons of good shape and size were to be found.
The last time we were there, three/fours years ago they existed and I got some shots which I quite liked, but were not outstanding. Hence my revisit -
...Show more

Indeed, I totally understand frustration at a location being completely different... (Okay let's just say it, completely different = kinda ugly, if you were hoping for hexagons!)

I also understand frustration at "tips" from folks being either non-existent, or bad. So, I do get your point.

My point was this, though: It's quite possible that the area you visited previously hasn't had good hexagons in years. So unless asked specifically about where the best hexagons are currently, the rangers you encountered probably had no chance at guessing you were looking for something that was there 3-4 years ago. In my opinion, (negative / spiteful comments aside of course) that is why folks are surprised at your aiming disappointment at rangers themselves. I know you're just venting your frustration here, but it would have received a more positive response if you had simply stated you were sorely disappointed to not have found hexagons in the same spot as your last visit, and left out the bit about rangers being of no help. Or if you had simply stated, "rangers did not mention that this particular area now looks like this, FYI..."

Many folks here (including myself and Ben Horne) visit DV on a yearly basis, or more, and I guess that affords us the luxury of being more in-the-know. I do understand that a less frequent visitor will feel the sting of disappointment at "beautiful-scene-turned-barren-wasteland" more than us. Then again, if you had posted here in the "Location Scouting / Meet-Up" section of this forum before your trip, we might have been able to direct you to some fantastic spots!

Sorry to nit-pick your disappointment and detract from the whole point of enjoying the beautiful images you shared. I just wanted to help you understand people's relatively un-supportive response to your disappointment.



Sep 14, 2015 at 10:23 AM
Grahamc
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Badwater, Death Valley


Thanks, Jim, Mathew and Ben.
While not as frequent a visitor to Badwater and Death Valley as you guys I have been at least four times at intervals of 2/3 years. The last time 3 years ago. On our first 3 visits the salt flats were pristine, except for the middle section from the car park.
I also didn't know about the Location Scouting/Meet-up section of this Forum!
I'll be sure to use it on our next visit to the US. (Hopefully next year).



Sep 14, 2015 at 08:47 PM





FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.