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Archive 2015 · On Fanboys and trolls

  
 
Tim Ashton
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · On Fanboys and trolls


An article by a London based psychologist and photographer published In Ming Thien's blog

Go to: http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/06/ot-guest-contribution-the-pathology-of-fanboyism-and-a-little-advice-to-mt/#more-11692

I dont agree with everything he says about lack of self confidence as I spend my life looking at everyone elses work wishing I too to be as good and I certainly never dis others gear unless I know them well and they me

But it does confirm a lot of what I think the majority of us must think about trolls and fanboys

A couple of quotes to whet your appetite

" ‘Fanboys’ and ‘trolls’, on the other hand, are typically lacking in self confidence or conviction in their work, and in the majority of cases, are actually unable to produce any work that they are actually proud of. They can never muster the humility to admit this publicly, but it does affect their private mental state. This lack of self confidence and insecurity prompts them to both be defensive at the smallest perceived slight towards anything they consider ‘personal’ "

"Whilst the artist has a strong personal/psychological ‘investment’ in their work, the troll has a need to defend their tenuous identity and a strong financial investment in their equipment "



I found his observations quite amusing

Cheers
Tim



Sep 07, 2015 at 06:33 AM
Joseph Garcin
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · On Fanboys and trolls


Just another variation on the "Bad Craftsman" theme.

I like the personal vs. financial investment analogy though. However, it sounds kind of like the psychologist is practicing a little of his own assessment by displacing his lack of skill into a psychological observation that trolls the behavior of the trolls.

One must never forget that skillful trolling is a art form.



Sep 07, 2015 at 07:35 AM
story_teller
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · On Fanboys and trolls


Hi Tim,
Here are a couple of quotes that got my attention.

"It seems a large proportion of the photography community has not developed beyond their lizard brains"
As one lizard brain to another... (lol) I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment on this article, but that never stopped me in the past.

"I do not agree with those who suggest shutting off comments or restricting site access"

My personal observation is that trolls get their entertainment out of wasting other's time. They cruise the Internet looking for forums to disrupt, but usually they're easy to spot and control. Where trolls are not controlled, I usually don't spend a lot of time on that forum. A lot of the responses become emotional and are no longer valuable. I'm up for debate when the debate is with someone who has a different, but valid opinion. I generally learn something new as a result.

I would offer that the good doctor likes uncontrolled forum environments for his observation. That, in effect, makes us his lab rats. Sorry, I only run mazes if there's a good chunk of cheese at the end. So now it appears that we're lab rats with lizard brains! All this from simply picking up a camera! Who knew??

I wonder if they have trolls on the American Journal of Medicine forum?

Anyway, have a good day. I gotta go track down some fresh meat!

Larry the lizard



Sep 07, 2015 at 07:43 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · On Fanboys and trolls


Joseph Garcin wrote:
Just another variation on the "Bad Craftsman" theme.


Bad Craftsman

Sounds like interesting material but a quick Google only returned Sear based results.

Can you provide informative links, Joseph?






Sep 07, 2015 at 10:27 AM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · On Fanboys and trolls


nolaguy wrote:
Bad Craftsman

Sounds like interesting material but a quick Google only returned Sear based results.

Can you provide informative links, Joseph?



I'm guessing it's along the lines of "a bad craftsman blames his tools."



Sep 07, 2015 at 11:15 AM
myboostedgst
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · On Fanboys and trolls


nolaguy wrote:
Bad Craftsman

Sounds like interesting material but a quick Google only returned Sear based results.



This made me .



Sep 07, 2015 at 12:02 PM
John Skinner
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · On Fanboys and trolls


This deal.... Photography HAS since the 1980s when 'affordable' SLR models came out been a pissing match. Somewhat dulling at the 1995 area. But since the "Digital Age" 2002+ has come ripping in -- we're right back at it.

Use the multiplication factor that people with phones (no less) have become what some in the industry call 'artists & creative geniuses'. What was a 3 lane road going in both directions, is now a 15 lane super-highway with exits every 1 KM.. And everyone and their dead uncles brothers half sister is making images..

So where there are numbers... your going to have trolls and people that critique.

It's not a new phenomenon, nor it is rocket science -- it's just human, and grown to numbers none of us can really comprehend.



Sep 07, 2015 at 12:11 PM
ckcarr
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · On Fanboys and trolls


"today’s post is an article courtesy of guest contributor, psychologist and photographer Dr. P.L., a London-based practitioner of some note who wishes to remain anonymous to avoid spam from said fanboys"

Ha-ha!

Anonymous...

One thing I've learned as I've become older, is to take high fallutin' articles like this from the "Intellectual Elite" with a grain of salt, if not ignoring altogether. When I was younger and in graduate school, I might have given credibility to the pompous asses, no more though. A good honest, common sense practical person is worth far more.



Sep 07, 2015 at 12:29 PM
Jim8EL
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · On Fanboys and trolls


Never met a psychologist that didn't need one...


Sep 07, 2015 at 05:48 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · On Fanboys and trolls


I don't think anyone can even agree on what the definition of a "troll" or "fanboy" is.
And how can anyone make such statements about their (troll/fanboy) motivation unless someone has actually gone out and studied them (the photography kind specifically at least) in some sort of detail and in sufficient statistical quantity to make general statements. In the end the author's definitions and opinions on such is just as good as anyone else here on FM and on other sites . . .






Sep 07, 2015 at 06:38 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · On Fanboys and trolls


What? An outsider to ward off people who are actually critical of the blogger in the comments? I've never seen a blog with as many people telling the blogger what a great job he did and what a great photographer he is. Or a blogger who repeatedly writes about how much work the blog is and how it's not worth his time and effort, or how the business in his country sucks, or how the photography business overall sucks.

The piece itself strikes me as 'too long, didn't read.' So I didn't.

And if Dr. P.L. exists (considering he apparently suffers from the same tendency to be long-winded as the blogger), maybe he could tell the blogger that most professionals don't go about buying and selling gear all the time. Those who buy and sell gear all the time are called 'gear heads,' although those who fancy themselves artists first might have a hard time admitting that at heart they're gear heads.



Sep 07, 2015 at 07:22 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · On Fanboys and trolls


"Dr. P.L., a London-based practitioner of some note"

Another politically correct, don't judge, wuss. Oh, sorry for judging.



Sep 07, 2015 at 07:28 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · On Fanboys and trolls


The issue is that photography is two distinct things, the equipment and the actual photo. It is the equipment that attracts the trolls as the equipment is generally the source of "mine's better than yours" type arguments due to test site rankings and reviews showing a slight technical advantage of one over another. It is a way to "show" that you're better than someone else simply because you own the "best" equipment according to a review site rather than being best at photography which is what the bl00dy equipment is there for in the first place!

Unfortunately, some of the sane people on these forums get sucked into these arguments, not necessarily because they are so concerned with whether their camera or lens is not considered "better" or "the best", but because of the baiting and ridiculous over the top assertions that these "mine's better than yours" types proffer. Things like, this lens/camera "blows yours out of the water" type comments when in reality it would be almost impossible to tell the difference or at best it is only "better" in opinion, ie something like bokeh or colour accuracy etc.



Sep 07, 2015 at 08:58 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · On Fanboys and trolls


Tim Ashton wrote:
An article by a London based psychologist and photographer published In Ming Thien's blog

Go to: http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/06/ot-guest-contribution-the-pathology-of-fanboyism-and-a-little-advice-to-mt/#more-11692

I dont agree with everything he says about lack of self confidence as I spend my life looking at everyone elses work wishing I too to be as good and I certainly never dis others gear unless I know them well and they me

But it does confirm a lot of what I think the majority of us must think about trolls and fanboys

A couple of quotes to whet your appetite

" ‘Fanboys’ and ‘trolls’, on the other hand, are typically lacking in self confidence or

I found his observations quite amusing

Cheers
Tim
...Show more

Some of that has merit, but a lot is nonsense.

Many of the internet trolls are just bullies or jerks. They may or may not be good at their craft or successful in other areas of life. They may have piles or equipment or very little. Maybe it would be more convenient to think of them as artistic or personal failures, but that just isn't the reality. Anyone that has spent some years on the internet would notice that. It doesn't require a Ph.D. in psychology.

EBH



Sep 07, 2015 at 09:10 PM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · On Fanboys and trolls


Honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to feeling good or bad about what the troller or fanboy has purchased. When someone does tons of research, saves up, and makes a big purchase, they don't want to feel like they did something foolish. I think that's why you see so many people get so worked up when someone says this camera or that camera isn't any good. I don't think many of the people who are trolling are doing it intentionally, I think they are simply trying to justify / defend their purchase. Get a few of them together and things can escalate quickly.

Sadly I think most of the nasty arguments can be avoided if people would realize that there's more than one right answer - and in many cases camera "A" and camera "B" can take equally good photos under 95% of the circumstances.



Sep 07, 2015 at 10:27 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · On Fanboys and trolls


Steve Perry wrote:
Honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to feeling good or bad about what the troller or fanboy has purchased. When someone does tons of research, saves up, and makes a big purchase, they don't want to feel like they did something foolish. I think that's why you see so many people get so worked up when someone says this camera or that camera isn't any good. I don't think many of the people who are trolling are doing it intentionally, I think they are simply trying to justify / defend their purchase. Get a few of
...Show more

Very well put, Steve.



Sep 07, 2015 at 11:30 PM
Keith B.
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · On Fanboys and trolls


Trolling and Fanboy-ism are hobbies for the unimaginative.



Sep 08, 2015 at 01:10 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · On Fanboys and trolls


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Trolling and fanboyism extends far beyond camera forums (however I must say it seems to be more prevalent with things like cameras and cellphones than anything else I have seen). 99% of the trolling/fanboyism I see is gear related. It's all the confirmation bias IMHO. Someone spends their heard earned money on something, they will defend it, especially if it is deemed inferior in a public environment by someone. Megapixels don't matter until your brand has the most, or who needs full frame until of course your brand gets into the full frame game haha. It goes round and round. Everyone wants reassurance that they have picked the best 'team', for lack of a better term.

Try telling someone who just spent $20K on brand A that brand B is better for X reason. It won't matter what you show them, even if it's objective data, they will defend their purchase vehemently. Most people have significant investment in camera gear, and the cost and effort involved to switch systems is not small.

If you think FM is bad, go look at DPR haha. That place is an almost entirely un-moderated disaster and being a gear forum, the amount of posts that degrade into brand bashing or fanboyism is astonishing. It got so bad they had to remove their "down-vote" system, because so many people abused it by down-voting any comment made by an individual they didn't care for like a bunch of 5 year olds. So many highly respected contributing members left because of what that place was reduced to. We have it pretty good here, and a far higher percentage of members have valuable contributions to make IMHO.

I'm actually not a huge fan of Ming's, and I think the guest comments about fanboyism being linked to self confidence issues are strange. I think it has almost everything to do with people wanting justification for their purchases. Just my opinion of course.



Sep 08, 2015 at 02:11 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · On Fanboys and trolls


Sometimes people post to cause trouble, and we call them trolls
Sometimes people post to make a cogent point that may not be in line with the majority, and we call them trolls

It's like being on a planet where everyone is either a liar or always tells the truth. The only answer you ever get is: "I'm not a liar."


Go ahead and try to start cogent conversation thread about Ziess lenses here on the forum and see what you get ... So here's an conundrum ... since it's impossible to metion Ziess with out the tolls coming to feed, is even mentioning Ziess a trollish act?

My point is sometimes people ask an innocent question not knowing the ramifications, and then again, sometimes people ask an "innocent" question knowing full well the ramifications ... it's so hard to tell on a text only forum.





Sep 08, 2015 at 12:00 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · On Fanboys and trolls


Tim Ashton wrote:
An article by a London based psychologist and photographer published In Ming Thien's blog

Go to: http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/09/06/ot-guest-contribution-the-pathology-of-fanboyism-and-a-little-advice-to-mt/#more-11692

I dont agree with everything he says about lack of self confidence as I spend my life looking at everyone elses work wishing I too to be as good and I certainly never dis others gear unless I know them well and they me

But it does confirm a lot of what I think the majority of us must think about trolls and fanboys

A couple of quotes to whet your appetite

" ‘Fanboys’ and ‘trolls’, on the other hand, are typically lacking in self confidence or

I found his observations quite amusing

Cheers
Tim
...Show more

************************************

Hi Tim,

An interesting idea. I think it's easy to make embellished generalizations about people that behave in a certain way, but the underlying causes may be more varied or simpler. In the end, it seems to boil down to ego in the heat of the moment, or denial. Whatever the cause, it's annoying.

Cheers,
Andre



Sep 08, 2015 at 12:09 PM
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