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Archive 2015 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?

  
 
torakun
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Hi all!

I just saw this forum yesterday and I think the discussions and the peoples are amazing! So, I joined and I hope I can get a bit of answer from someone.

I pre ordered A7RII with bunch of free stuffs like ONA bags and such. While waiting, I'm anxious on what lens to get for the A7RII.

A little bit of back story, I'm just a hobbyist/enthusiast. I tried many cameras in the past 2 years, ranging from Fuji XT1, Nikon D750, Sony A7, Olympus em5 mark II, Panasonic GX7, etc. I was not satisfied, and I believe I have a G.A.S syndrome.
However, I decided that this time, I want to stick with 1 brand/system camera for at least 2 years. I almost decided to get Leica M240. The price vs what I get is just isn't worth it for the time being IMO. So I begun to search around for one generation back, the Leica M9 second hand with 35 summicron+50 1.5 voigt for $4000.

I almost get it, but I thought the potential sensor issue, high ISO noise performance, and the quality of the screen alone is a deal breaker for me in 2015 (for now?). Then I looked at sony a7rii and I thought that I could just get one of the best mirrorless camera on the market with 2015's technology stuffed inside for much less than Leica M240. So I preordered. However, the lust of owning Leica lenses still hasn't dissipate from my thought. So I begun to wonder.. I heard a lot regarding the issue with Wide angle M lenses, but as for me, I don't need the wide angle. I just wondering about 4 lenses.

1. Leica M 50mm Summicron
2. Leica M 35mm Summicron
3. Zeiss ZM Distagon 35mm f/1.4
4. Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5

That's all. I will be really grateful if I can get an answer for at least 2/4 lenses above. I have been googling for 2 weeks now, and I can only find a little answer. It seems like every A7 series body behaving differently. I really hope the Zeiss ZM distagon can behave nicely with A7RII because I rather own that one compared to the bigger and heavier Sony Zeiss 35mm F/1.4.

Am I fooling myself here or just being naive? I often think that with Leica + 50 Summicron and 35, I dare and willing to learn to take a great picture. Even when travelling I would like to think that I can survive with those combo alone. While at the same time, with Sony/Olympus/Fuji, I wouldn't feel safe. I would feel insecure, and wanting to get extra wide lenses/telephoto/macro. Is it only due to the price and the brand name? Is there something wrong with me?

Anyway, I am also considering getting second hand canon 24-70 f/2.8 II to use with an adapter because I am not confident with Zeiss's version. Anyone can chime in how's this combo would be?

Anyway, it's been too long already. Sorry for the long post. I would be thankful for any reply in advance.

Regards,

Tora



Aug 31, 2015 at 02:15 AM
Zony_user
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


With the type of G.A.S. you have, you'll run into a problem of wanting to replace your Summicron with a Summilux. Or a Noctilux or APO-Summicron. Unless you have unlimited funds, the Leica roulette is a dangerous game to play.


Aug 31, 2015 at 03:51 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Having owned many M mount bodies for 5 years, with an array of Leica M mount glass I would strongly advise against purchasing M mount glass specifically for the A7rII. The best body with Leica M glass is the M9/M240 bodies, and hopefully soon Leica will introduce a new body.

Of course there is superb M mount glass available, and few really work as well as the native mounts. The FE 55m Loxia 50, FE 35/1.4, Batis 25/85, FE 90 are really superb.

I still have a number of Leica M lenses, and the two that I still really enjoy with the A7rII is the M 50 Cron IV and WATE. Having the Batis 25, I now really don't need the WATE. I am even finding with the increased resolution and rendering with the A7rII that my 50 Nocti f/1.0 and 75 Lux are now lacking to the point where I do not use them much.

There are a few M mount lenses that work really great and the size and weight is the real advantage IMO, If your main interest in the 50mm FL, like myself, the FE 55/1.8 is a great starting point without having to mortgage your house




Aug 31, 2015 at 04:16 AM
Viramati
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Personally I would go for the Sony/Zeiss FE55/1.8 as it is one of the best standard lenses that you can get + you get all the benefits of AF etc and I say this even though I have the leica Summilux 50 asph which is another of the all time greats. As to 35mm it is a bit more complicated as the FE35/2.8 is very good and very small though a little slow, the Loxia 35/2 is also excellent but only MF and then there is the FE35/1.4 which is excellent but as you have said huge. So if you are into MF lenses I would go for the loxia. Personally though I would consider the FE28 which is again very capable especially for it's price and IMO gives you a better range than a 50/35 combo.


Aug 31, 2015 at 09:13 AM
PeterGlaso
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I don't have these lenses, but i certainly love my 75 summarit on the A7rII. Excellent match.


Aug 31, 2015 at 09:23 AM
asabet
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Both my 50mm Summilux ASPH and 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE work beautifully on the A7RII.


Aug 31, 2015 at 03:46 PM
jamato8
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I have a number of Leica lenses. They work fine with the A7RII.


Aug 31, 2015 at 03:57 PM
Jay968
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I own both a Leica M240 with 21, 28, 35, 50, 90 and 135 lenses. I recently got into Sony with the A7Rii having replaced my Nikon gear. For the Sony, I own the 16-35, 28-70, 70-200, 35 1.4, 35 2.8, 55 1.8 and 18-105 which I use exclusively for video shooting.
In all honesty, I would advise sticking with Leica lenses on a Leica camera. Yes most of them work well on the Sony but not as good as on a Leica body and hardly any better than the Sony lenses on the Sony body. Actually the 55 1.8 Sony/Zeiss is quite an impressive lens and on the Sony body I think it produces better images than the 50 Summilux does on that same body.
The only practical Leica lenses for me on the Sony body are the 90 and 135 since I do not have the Zeiss Batis for the Sony and there is no native 135 for it.



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:05 PM
torakun
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Thank you so much for the replies!

I appreciate it. I read all of them. I think after a lot of consideration, I conclude that I just want to shoot with lenses that inspire me. Lenses that have character and signatures, instead of the one that's just "available".

I'm thinking of going with Zeiss ZM 35mm f/1.4 (for leica) and Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 (cheap and supposedly rival the summilux version) for the time being. I do have concern regarding the focal lenght though. I am just afraid that it might be too close together. However, I don't think I have much choice. Tele/portait is a problem, and I think batis 85mm is a great lens but I won't available to my area anytime soon and buying just 1 lens for portrait seems overkill for my uses. I'd rather go with 70-200 f4, at least I can do something else with it too.

Wider option is also causing me headache. I could go with the 16-35, but its quite costly, or if I want to shave off some weight I could just go with Voigtlander 15mm ver. III.

Anyone have any of the two lenses I mentioned above with A7RII? Any idea how they perform? I don't mind vignetting, I usually add them post processing anyway. Just afraid of the color smearing, and maybe 42MPx sensor outresolving the lens?

Jay968 wrote:
In all honesty, I would advise sticking with Leica lenses on a Leica camera. Yes most of them work well on the Sony but not as good as on a Leica body and hardly any better than the Sony lenses on the Sony body. Actually the 55 1.8 Sony/Zeiss is quite an impressive lens and on the Sony body I think it produces better images than the 50 Summilux does on that same body.
The only practical Leica lenses for me on the Sony body are the 90 and 135 since I do not have the Zeiss Batis for the Sony
...Show more

I understand what you're saying, and I can't argue with that. Sadly, Sony lenses doesn't inspire me that much, just a few like 35 f/1.4, loxias, and batis. Sadly I can't just rent and test it, so I have to rely on the internet to tell me. Is the 90mm leica good? Which one do you recommend? For the cheaper one I was thinking of Elmarit version but not sure whether it's good or not.

Other thing is I just want to travel light. I carried D750 with 3 lenses last time I went to travel, and I left it at the hotel room. I have little desire to carry them for 2 reasons. 1. They make me look like a legit tourist, and this is bad for many obvious reasons. 2. It's heavy and uninspiring.

Pairing leica mount lenses with A7RII, I know that I should get the benefit of both worlds. Small lenses+latest and greatest tech with small body as well. The only thing left is just the performance of those lenses.

PS: Anyone can recommend me a good adapter for Leica M lenses to Sony? is the Voigtlander VM Close focus with the extra money?

Thank you again for the replies! Really made my day!

Cheers!




Aug 31, 2015 at 10:31 PM
Luvwine
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I had the 50 summilux on the A7r and compared with FE 55 1.8 and while there were aspects of the Leica that the FE could not match, overall, the FE was better. I do think the WATE is outstanding on the Sony A7r/2 as is the Leica 90/2 AA. I am also enjoying the 75 Summilux and find it works great on the A7r2. Now, whether it is better on a Leica body, I cannot say, though I doubt it. Whether native glass like the Zeiss Batis 85 equal or exceed the the Leica 90/2 AA, I don't know. I am confident its autofocus would be much better, however. 😜. As to other qualities, I am guessing there will be pluses and minuses. If you like the Leica look, there is no harm in trying some. They are often smaller than native mount alternatives, but the native mount lenses are mostly really good and some are truly great.


Aug 31, 2015 at 10:35 PM
suteetat
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I regularly use WATE, 35/1.4 fle, 50/2 apo, 50/0.95 Noct, 90/2 apo regularly on A7r ii which I enjoy very much. I can't tell how it is in comparison to M240 but on MM246 which I have, I think 35/1.4 fle is not quite as good in the corner on A7r ii wide open but otherwise I am very happy with the result. 28/2.8 asph, 24/2.8, 35/3.5 elmer do not play well with A7r ii. Batis 25/2, Zeiss 135/2 apo sonnar fill the gaps very nicely. Otherwise, Leica R also plays very well with A7r ii, just need a longer adapter so the system is not quite as compact but also a lot cheaper usually.


Sep 01, 2015 at 12:37 AM
Big Cheese
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Yes definitely a case of GAS based on your symptoms as presented.

I have investments in Olympus, Fuji and Sony systems. I like them all for different reasons. If you haven't found any of what you tried completely satisfying, then why not have a few systems to do different things.

It seems money isn't too much of an issue.

I like M4/3 for its portability and the EM-1 is the quickest/most capable/flexible body around. Dislikes are that the image quality is lacking but only for very large landscapes. I like Fuji for its lenses and X-trans IQ. I dislike it because its RAW files are difficult to work. I like Sony for landscapes when I want to print large and compatibility with good and cheap legacy lenses. I dislike it because its native lenses are mostly expensive for what they are, and there are some key holes in its lineup.

But between the three systems I feel I have all my bases covered.



Sep 01, 2015 at 01:55 AM
philber
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Torakum, if you search this forum, you will see many threads outlining which Leica M lenses work on A7s and which not. Basics are: in wide angles, WATE, 21'Lux and 24 'Lux work well, others not. In "normal" lenses, 35 'Lux works, other 35s not. 50s: 'Lux is borderline (meaning not wide open and at infinity), others I don't know. Longer than 50 are all trouble-free.
Zeiss lenses in M mount: ZM 35: the f:2.8 and f:2.0 are very problematic, the f:1.4 is not perfect but less problematic, and it is a fantastic lens. Call it borderline. The 50s are trouble-free.
The Loxias are trouble-free. If you are into the "Leica look", the Leica R are trouble-free, as are many other adapted lenses: Olympus, Minolta, Canon, Zeiss for DSLR...
As a first piece of kit, I would look at the following list, from which to choose: Batis 25, ZM 35 f:1.4, Loxia 35, Loxia 50, ZM 50 f:1.5, FE 55 f:1.8, Batis 85.
Hope this helps.



Sep 01, 2015 at 03:10 AM
Zony_user
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I regularly use the WATE, ZM 50/1.5, 90 AA, and 135 Elmar. I also have a few R lenses.

The WATE is irreplacable. It provides an unmatched combination of size, IQ, and versatility (zoom). There are some UWA lenses (CV15, FE16-35) that clicks two of those boxes, but there are none that clicks all three. The Leica color and rendering is another bonus feature of the WATE.

I use the 50/1.5 Sonnar-C primarily for portraits. It is the polar opposite of the FE55 that is a fine lens but often criticized as being clinical. The Sonnar-C has loads of character and is a specialized lens with soft images wide open, but it sharpens up quite a bit at around f5.6. Low contrast, wonderful colors, and exceptional bokeh. I sold the 50 pre-asph summicron and summilux in favor of the ZM.

The 90 AA stays glued to my A7ii (which is my subcamera. The RX1 is my main camera) It is a fantastic lens and my favorite Leica lens. The 90 Elmarit, Tele Elmarit, and Elmar are also excellent choices if you are looking for a small/light mid telephoto.

I also have limited experience with the ZM 35/1.4. I had it for like a week and compared it against my RX1, and preferred the RX1 images. Ergonomically it is similar to the ZM 50/1.5 --- similar aesthetics and similar feel to the dials/rings, just double the size.



Sep 01, 2015 at 04:28 AM
Viramati
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I have the 16-35, WATE and CV15 vIII and they are all very good lenses. The FE16-35 is of course the most versatile having the greatest range and the benefits of AF and full electronic linking. The WATE is of course a leica lens and performs well but is very expensive. The CV15 vIII is a marvel for what it costs and I would say that I am getting slightly better sharpness in the corners than both the WATE and 16-35 at the widest settings but then you are limited to 15mm.


Sep 01, 2015 at 05:19 AM
Timkr
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Has anyone tried the ZM 25 f2.8 biogon? Thanks


Sep 01, 2015 at 05:29 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


I have no experience with the A7R II, but I am using M lenses with my A7R. From what I read so far is that some M lenses show improvement with having less vignetting in the corners on the A7R II, but regarding sharpness there is no or only minor difference between both cameras.

The Leica 50/2 works great on my A7R, I don't need much correction in post processing with this lens. I do not recommend the Leica 35/2 ASPH - it simply doesn't work well with this sensor (severe focus shift areas in the frame and corners never get sharp). The CV 35/1.2 II on the other hand is bigger in size but still well to handle and performs great on the A7R.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:31 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Timkr wrote:
Has anyone tried the ZM 25 f2.8 biogon? Thanks


Although I haven't tested it personally, I have seen tests and samples that have convinced me that it doesn't work well. Edges and corners are smeared.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:37 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


As a general rule the A7r II shows virtually no corner colour shading with any lens. The new BSI sensor seems to help a great deal with that problem, but it seems to show just as much smearing/field curvature in the edges and corners as any of the other Sony A7 series cameras. This makes sense because the smearing/field curvature seems to be caused by the thickness of the cover glass and not the sensor itself.

The OP should know that Kolari Vision can modify all the a7 series cameras except the A7r II (this is too new and they may be able to modify it as well in the future) with a thinner cover glass that works much better with Leica M mount lenses. With the modification, it seems that you get nearly the same performance for smearing/field curvature that you get with a Leica M digital camera (I would say about 90%). With this modification, IMO, all the Leica M lenses are quite useable with only the few exceptions that don't work well on Leica M digital as well.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:45 AM
torakun
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?


Thank you for the kind replies.

I think I have decided not to go down this route. It's too risky and costly at the end if my gamble didn't pay off. I have decided to give the camera a try for a bit before deciding whether or not to commit to the system. If I dislike it, then I'll save up a bit more to get Leica.

Thank you for the insightful posts, I've read them all and thought about it.

Regards,



Sep 02, 2015 at 01:40 AM
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