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Archive 2015 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...

  
 
TooManyShots
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


The subject says it all. Any tips as to how to make it work effectively? I have a Yongnuo 560 III. It worked well with bounce flash indoor, off camera handheld. I tried to use it as fill outside with unpredictable subject distance, I got into troubles. Too much power. It appears even at 1/128 power output, the power is too great at a distance shorter than 5ft. I am thinking about getting the Yongnuo 568ex. I can get full sync at 1/400s on my d7000. With a faster shutter speed, I get shutter clipping.


Aug 06, 2015 at 01:40 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


What are you photographing where you are using on-camera flash at <5ft? If you hit 1/128 power your only options are to use a lower iso (if you can) or stop down to a smaller aperture.

You will only be able to sync at the flash sync speed unless you get a high speed sync capable speedlight (HSS/FP sync) which will sync at the expense of flash power.

With unpredictable distances you are often best with a TTL capable speedlight which can adjust the power itself based on the camera meter.



Aug 06, 2015 at 02:52 PM
TooManyShots
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


Mark_L wrote:
What are you photographing where you are using on-camera flash at <5ft? If you hit 1/128 power your only options are to use a lower iso (if you can) or stop down to a smaller aperture.

You will only be able to sync at the flash sync speed unless you get a high speed sync capable speedlight (HSS/FP sync) which will sync at the expense of flash power.

With unpredictable distances you are often best with a TTL capable speedlight which can adjust the power itself based on the camera meter.


Close up with a 17-50 lens, half body shots. I didn't find myself in situation like that that often but just in case it would happen in the future, I want to prepare. Or situation outdoor capturing with people gathering and playing. Bounce flash is out of the question since it is outside. Yeah, I really don't think there is a way around it other than shooting with a TLL flash.



Aug 06, 2015 at 03:04 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


If you need to use a wide lens and get in that close for the look you want, I guess you could always move the head up slightly and feather the light so the flash isn't totally direct to knock down the intensity a bit. If it is constantly an issue you could also look at ND gels so reduce the output.


Aug 06, 2015 at 03:13 PM
WayneF
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


TooManyShots wrote:
The subject says it all. Any tips as to how to make it work effectively? I have a Yongnuo 560 III. It worked well with bounce flash indoor, off camera handheld. I tried to use it as fill outside with unpredictable subject distance, I got into troubles. Too much power. It appears even at 1/128 power output, the power is too great at a distance shorter than 5ft. I am thinking about getting the Yongnuo 568ex. I can get full sync at 1/400s on my d7000. With a faster shutter speed, I get shutter clipping.


The way TTL flash works is that automation in the camera meters the TTL preflash and sets the flash power level appropriately for the scene that it sees. Automatic point & shoot flash, like say compact cameras do. Not always precisely perfect flash, but ballpark close, and we can adjust it with Flash Compensation.

The way manual flashes work is that they simply flash at the power level that you manually set in them. Nothing else matters except what you do. There is no automation, and no point&shoot. If you don't set the manual power level right for the situation at hand, it won't be right. If you do set it right, it will be right. But otherwise, there is no reason to expect it to be even ballpark close. It is manual flash, set right only by YOU.

You could use a hand held light meter to meter the manual flash, and set the level that way.
Or you can use Guide Number in the flash manual to compute an appropriate level.
Even memory of past experience can be approximately right.
Otherwise, the usual plan is trial and error, if its too bright, turn it down, etc.
But anything that YOU do not do will not get done any other way. ONLY YOU controls manual flash.

You have made no statements about your efforts to do so. I'm thinking it is not happening.

The YN560 is a manual flash, but your problem sounds as is you expect the manual flash to be automatic? I can make one promise, that is not going to happen. The tip is that you have to do something yourself to set Manual flash correctly.

Maybe you just need a TTL flash? To actually be capable of automatic point&shoot flash? The YN568 should be a good choice. It will have both a TTL and a Manual menu.

A few things you said don't compute, but not sure I understand the situation.

The Y560 III manual has a Guide Number chart that says ISO 100 24mm zoom 1/128 power has a guide number of 8.2 (feet). That means at five feet, an approximate correct full exposure is GN 8.2 / 5 feet = f/1.6. You're not using f/1.6 outside in sun? I'm not sure what you said, but it is not likely too bright then. And certainly a manual flash will NOT BE AN AUTOMATIC FLASH EXPOSURE.



Edited on Aug 06, 2015 at 05:35 PM · View previous versions



Aug 06, 2015 at 05:27 PM
TooManyShots
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


I have no problems setting the power level manually when the subject distance is known and the shooting condition is prepared in advance. However, when shooting outdoor gathering with various people interacting with one another, with inopportune shots, that's just not the time to fiddle with the power settings. I am wondering if there is a good rule or formula to go by dealing with the situation I mentioned.

Fortunately, the 568ex is affordable enough if I need a TLL flash, I could just go get one.



Aug 06, 2015 at 05:33 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


TooManyShots wrote:
I have no problems setting the power level manually when the subject distance is known and the shooting condition is prepared in advance. However, when shooting outdoor gathering with various people interacting with one another, with inopportune shots, that's just not the time to fiddle with the power settings. I am wondering if there is a good rule or formula to go by dealing with the situation I mentioned.

Fortunately, the 568ex is affordable enough if I need a TLL flash, I could just go get one.


If your flash has a GN mode (guide number) you can set the distance based on a guess.



Aug 06, 2015 at 05:39 PM
WayneF
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


TooManyShots wrote:
I have no problems setting the power level manually when the subject distance is known and the shooting condition is prepared in advance. However, when shooting outdoor gathering with various people interacting with one another, with inopportune shots, that's just not the time to fiddle with the power settings. I am wondering if there is a good rule or formula to go by dealing with the situation I mentioned.

Fortunately, the 568ex is affordable enough if I need a TLL flash, I could just go get one.


A TTL flash is great advantage when you need help setting the flash power automatically.



Aug 06, 2015 at 05:39 PM
TooManyShots
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


Mark_L wrote:
If your flash has a GN mode (guide number) you can set the distance based on a guess.


The flash has no guide number and chart on it BUT I do have a chart for the flash. The chart is on my phone. I could print out the chart and to tape it on the flash.



Aug 06, 2015 at 05:48 PM
kaplah
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


Mark_L wrote:
If you hit 1/128 power your only options are to use a lower iso (if you can) or stop down to a smaller aperture..

Or just put an ND gel over the flash.



Aug 07, 2015 at 08:20 PM
Batty_F
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Manual flash as fill on a hot shoe with variable shooting distance...


1/128 power on a speedlight is not a lot of light, perhaps the flash is in the wrong mode and is actually firing much more strongly if you're getting blowouts? When you say distances less than 5 feet, how much less? Like a few inches or 4 1/2 feet?

I have seen photojournalist-type people using manual fill flash at variable distances. I think their trick is they use known camera settings for ISO and aperture and have done this enough to eyeball the distance and set the appropriate flash power manually. I like to change my ISO and aperture frequently, so there's no way I could ever do this, so I use TTL for that sort of shooting.



Aug 08, 2015 at 10:58 PM





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