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Archive 2015 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?

  
 
lenticular11
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


Thanks Mike and Rico


Aug 07, 2015 at 12:45 AM
Bijltje
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


I have the 90/2.5 summarit. Was looking for the 2.8 elmarit (latest version) but came across a very good deal. I have used the old tele-elmarit in the past but didn't own one.

Absolute love the summarit. Its a very good lens. There are some opinions on the Internet about the summarits having a inferior build to other leica lenses, but I never noticed this and I have used almost every leica lens out there.
In fact, the 50mm summarit f/2.5 I have owned was the smoothest lens I ever used.

The Summarit is nice and compact, the optical quality is great. If your not after a typical classical rendering of the older leica lenses for me its a obvious choice.



Aug 07, 2015 at 05:20 AM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


rico wrote:
Claim to fame for the "thin" Tele-Elmarit is f/2.8 while keeping the weight down. As mentioned, build quality, optical performance and flare management is suspect for a Leitz lens of that vintage. I like old glass with metal build and lower weight, so the Elmar 90 was my choice: the 3- and 4-element rigids are a delight. For modern rendition (but greater mass), I would select the late Elmarit-M. I also own the original Elmarit and, while it has about the best handling ever, the optical performance is lacking. Looks pretty, though.

http://patternassociates.com/rico/leica/misc/elmarit90c.jpg



No kidding, the 90/4? How does that lens compare with the others?

I didn't see any mention of its redesign from 1931 to 1964, other than coatings in 1946. Even then, the collapsible Elmar retained a 4 element design. I like the screw mount anyway, and have adapters already. They made it in M mount, too.

David, I haven'tkept up with Leica prices lately , but I think you're getting a good enough price that, assuming everything works, you might be able to sell it without losing, and might even make some money. Even in Ken Rockwells review, he liked the optics. He liked the Elmarit-M, too




Aug 07, 2015 at 12:44 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


joe88 wrote:
I will take the Summarit 90 2.5 over Tele-E.

I had a Summarit 90 2.5, but sold because I also have a 90APO Cron (90 APO is probably one of Leica's best lens in my opinion). Kept my Tele-E because of its compact size, this is the main reason to keep the lens - size.

90 Tele-E is old, flares a lot and lose contrast very easily without a hood. It is susceptible to fogging and fungus which is irreversible, some say its due to oil or glue used (I can't recall). However, optically it is decent and stopped down to f/4,
...Show more

Gary Clennan wrote:
X2. I own the 90 Summarit and think it is a very solid performer. Modern design/coatings and very well built. I would choose it anyday over the tele-E (which I have also owned).


In fact, it is Gary who know owns your 90 Summarit. I also enjoyed the lens and didn't mind the hood design. Once my M240 was dialed in correctly, the Summarit was a real pleasure to use with the RF.

As with Joe I moved on to the 90AA and sold the Summarit, but in some respects, miss it. The 90AA seems to flare a bit less predictably at times and is trickier to focus correctly (with RF) and may be more fiddly and require more fine tuning at Leica to get right. At least my copy. I wonder if this is simply the way things work with a number of higher price, higher performance Leica M lenses? The Summarit on the other hand, just worked. I was not disappointed in it, rather, couldn't resist the inevitable desire to try the 'best' Leica 90 currently available for the M system.

I also had a brief chance to try the 75 Summarit and will echo Michael's comments. Relative to the 90 Summarit, I think the 75 is slightly sharper and punchier, Also probably less CA, which the 90 has to a minor, but discernible degree. 90AA here is better too and slightly more transparent in overall look, but it's splitting hairs.

I'm also curious about the 90/4 options but have difficulty believing the old 90 Elmar can compete against modern optics. But such a lens I'd probably shoot mostly at f/8 for landscape type images. I'd go for the 90 Macro, but have serious difficulty accepting its price. For about the same was able to get the AA, which felt like a better value (other than the weight).

I'm not a fan of what Leica did with the f/2.4 Summarit 'refresh' since it seems purely an excuse to considerably increase the price point. But maybe the line was under appreciated because it was too 'cheap' relative to mainstream M lenses? In any case, the 90/2.5 can be found at very attractive prices on the used market. I think it's dropped several hundred in the ~4 years since I bought it, despite the gradual increase in retail price. In fact, it would seem now is a much better time than 4 years ago to buy used modern Leica M lenses, seeing has how many have dropped a fair amount in resale value.



Aug 07, 2015 at 09:00 PM
rico
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


I'm a big fan of slow 90s in any mount. According to Puts, the original Elmar of 1930 retained its optical formula until discontinued in the early '60s! He mentions improved performance when different glass was used in the early '50s, and single-coating is also employed by this time. This is the version I like the most, and there are variations in the barrel design over the decade, as well as a choice of M/LTM mounts. The lens is sharp enough for portraits, with very low CA, awesome bokeh, and 15 aperture blades. It also has a clickless aperture ring, once again showing that fashion moves in a circle. The replacement 3-element design is notably sharper, but expensive and has a harsher bokeh. I consider the modern macro Elmar waaay overpriced, although it would be the sharpest of all.


Aug 07, 2015 at 09:25 PM
lenticular11
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


Thanks everyone for your valued posts.

I did the deal, getting the Summarit 90/2.5 by paying A$400 (about US$300 and dropping) for the trade. My buyer/Summarit seller wanted another Mandler lens and we are both happy.

The Tele-Elmarit I sold was in as-new condition despite its serial number showing it was built in 1974 in Canada. That lens must have sat virtually unused for much of the time.

Here's a photo of the departed lens!










Aug 09, 2015 at 01:06 AM
scopedude
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


I have the 90/2.5 and 75/2.5 Summarit. Both are excellent lenses - 75 being the (slightly) better one. The 90 has a bit of PF at f/2.5 but not really noticeable and produces better contrast stopped down. At f/5.6~8 it is excellent. I read somewhere that 90/2.5 Summarit design is based on the older 90 Cron. I personally like the rendering at f/2.5 - it has classic drawing (75 is more clinical IMO). I haven't tried the new f/2.4 but I can recommend the f/2.5


Aug 09, 2015 at 10:23 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Leica M 90 advice pls - Tele-Elmarit (11800) or Summarit 90/2.5?


scopedude wrote:
I haven't tried the new f/2.4 but I can recommend the f/2.5


It's just cosmetic changes, and a significant price increase. Optically there was no change. MTFs of the f/2.5 and f/2.4 versions are identical.



Aug 09, 2015 at 11:32 AM
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