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Archive 2015 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?

  
 
Dave-
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?



Hey guys,

I know there was a somewhat similar thread, but it's so old that I don't want to revive it.

The last camera I owned was a HP Photosmart 720 and I thought it was time for an update. ;-)
The frustrating thing for me: I can't tell what features and capabilities might be important.
Not easy to make a good decision that way. So maybe I can profit a little from your experiences.
:-)

No surprise there: I am quite a novice with photography. I want to learn, though. Wanted for a
long time, but a half decent entry cam was out of the question financially as a student.

Now that I'm working full time I want to try photography but still am on a budget.
One of my main hobbies is hiking, so I want a not-to large and heavy camera to take with me.
I often encounter things on my hikes that would make great pictures. For example:
-Landscapes,
-old, sometimes abandoned houses
-ruins
-old farming and industrial gear

(So, I guess landscapes, architecture and (not so)urban exploration, maybe some low-light indoor stuff like bunkers)

I also like wildlife, but from what I read that's not going to happen with my budget. Well, maybe
in a couple of years. ;-)

I read 1 1/2 weeks or so reviews and forum entries and finally ordered an EOS M.
(I have vacation now, so I want to use the time to test the cam)
It came with the 22mm lens, flash and the lens adapter for 330€ (~363$), which is pretty much my budget.
I like the camera so far. I'd like more controls beside the touchscreen and a little larger grip,
though. The latter one can be helped with that ~20bucks grip adapter.

The thing is: there are some sales here at the moment, offering the rebel sl1 (called EOS 100d here) with the 18-55mm is stm lens for 400€ (~440$).
While that is quite a lot more then I intended to spend, with the grip and stuff the price
difference melts. It's not the lens I want though. I like the 22mm so far and have even after
reading some reviews now clue how it will perform in comparison if I'm honest. ^^

What I am wondering is:
will I miss out some awesome features of the SL1 when I keep the EOS M? (faster AF maybe?)
On the other hand, will I miss something out besides the size when I go with the SL1?

From the video reviews it seems the SL1 doesn't have much more non-touch control elements than the EOS M. What do you think about the handling differences?

In the end, I want a camera to grow with me. (While I don't know how far it will take me.)
I don't have much time and funds, but might invest in a new lens in a year or so.
Is one of the cameras way better in doing what I mentioned above?

If my grammar ans spelling is funny please excuse, English is not my first language.

I'm thankful for every input!

Thank you and sorry the text got so long! ^^
David



Aug 02, 2015 at 12:45 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


Glass is the investment - not bodies. Bodies depreciate quickly.

Its not clear whether the eos-m will die or continue, so there is a risk over time that the lens you buy for this system might be stranded. Canon has produced the eosm-3 and four efm lens. Thats not a large commitment and they are not selling eosm in US. 50/50 whether this system carries on.

Its likely that the lens you buy for the sl1 will remain useful for a considerable time. This format has been constant for more than 10 years (apsc).

That said, the eosm lens and body are very cheap and the system/iq is pretty good and nice and small albeit slow on focus.

However, the EOSM system is not suitable for wildlife. So if you plan on switching to wildlife, or want wildlife now, the eosm system is not for you.

Tough choice - lower cost and reasonable and working for you now vs risk of regret in the future. Personally I would be inclined not to second guess yourself and just carry on with the eosm.

Check out the most recent postings on eosm. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1377754



Aug 02, 2015 at 01:11 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


If you are only going to have one Canon camera system then go for the EOS system, not the M

But there are other very good systems now available too



Aug 02, 2015 at 01:33 PM
curious80
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


Dave- wrote:
Hey guys,

I know there was a somewhat similar thread, but it's so old that I don't want to revive it.

The last camera I owned was a HP Photosmart 720 and I thought it was time for an update. ;-)
The frustrating thing for me: I can't tell what features and capabilities might be important.
Not easy to make a good decision that way. So maybe I can profit a little from your experiences.
:-)

No surprise there: I am quite a novice with photography. I want to learn, though. Wanted for a
long time, but a half decent entry cam was out of
...Show more

You have already bought the EOS M and like it. So why not stick with it until you feel the need to grow out of it. At that point you can decide if your growth path lies within the EOS M system or should you opt for a DSLR. EOS M actually has pretty decent controls. The only thing missing is the mode dial for which you have to use the touch screen but thats not bad at all. The touch screen implementation on EOS-M is pretty good and I don't see any reason not to use it if it works well. Don't get into the trap where you think that you shouldn't use touch screen just because 'experts' on the internet say that touchscreen is bad and physical controls are good.

There is nothing comparable to your 22mm f2 the for SL1. For your low light needs 22mm f2 will serve you much better than the 18-55mm kit lens of the SL1. It will also give you better background isolation than the kit lens. If you decide to go for SL1 then look for a better lens. Going from your current kit to SL1 + 18-55mm is a downgrade in my opinion. If you stay with EOS-M you could also add a cheap 18-55mm from the used market for added range for focal lengths. You could maybe use the 18-55mm for landscape needs and 22mm f2 as your people / low light lens etc. Ultimately you might look for even wider options for your landscape shots at which point you can look at the EF-M 11-22mm for your EOS-M or the EF-S 10-18mm if you go for SL1.



Aug 02, 2015 at 02:03 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


Last year I struggled with choosing between an EOS M and SL1/100D and walked away with the SL1. It's a little more bulky but I prefer using an optical VF and the faster more low light sensitive phase detection AF. Plus, my EF lenses work natively on the SL1 (no bulky adapter needed) and the popup flash is handy. Had the EOS M3 been available, it might have gone the other way!

The SL1 is a nice camera but its uniqueness revolves around it being a tiny DSLR and that's mainly why I bought it (I own several larger DSLRs). However, if it were to be my only camera and compactness was important I'd consider a higher Rebel model like the T6s: better performance and features. But, yeah, I've seen SL1 for $300 so it's difficult to resist compared to a $850 T6s.

Edited on Aug 02, 2015 at 04:05 PM · View previous versions



Aug 02, 2015 at 02:19 PM
Dave-
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


Wow, that was quick, you guys are awesome! :-)


It's the fear of regretting a buy later on I guess. I really hate that I have to buy without
sufficient knowledge and experience to make an informed decision.
That's the price of doing something new, I guess. :-)

While I have bought the EOS M, I can give it back within the next month. I normally don't do
that, but since it was an Amazon warehouse deal with already damaged packaging I have no qualms to do so. They would probably receive it cleaner and better packed from me then I did from them. :-)

I'm sure a T6s is nice, but there is just no way I can justify that kind of money (770$ on sale
with the 18-55).
Besides that I feel quite uncomfortable carrying around expensive stuff. I know me, a camera that expensive would rarely leave home, which is kind of counter-productive. ^^

Since weather got better here I will take the camera for a walk or two the next days and look how I get along with the touchscreen and display in the environment I actually want to use it.

Let's say I keep the EOS M and want another lens later like the 18-55, would it make sense to spread the financial risk by buying a lens for my adapter (in case I get an affordable canon dslr body off ebay for example when I feel the need for one) or am I better of with the native lens?

Thank you all for your time!
David



Aug 02, 2015 at 03:01 PM
calk
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


I normally try to refrain from chiming in on equipment choices. Since I have some experience with both the cameras you are asking about, I will share my view. I shoot Canon dslr cameras. I wanted something small, so I bought an EOS M, the 18-55 IS lens and an adapter for using my Canon EF mount lenses. I was satisfied with the snapshot type images I made using the 18-55, but the keeper rate was low due to mostly due to my inability to sufficiently hold the camera steady using what a friend of mine calls the "dirty diaper inspection" position. That is, holding the camera with arms extended and looking at the LCD screen to frame my shots. I found it very iffy, at best, missing a lot of shots due to my own inability to be stable in this position, blurred images and missed framing.
Also, the LCD was all but invisible outdoors in daylight. I have seen many good images made with the EOS M, but I just couldn't reliably make them in my own hands.

So I sold the EOS M and bought an SL1. It's a much better choice for my small camera needs. The lens I've used most with it is the 50mm f/1.8 STM. It works quite well. It has, of course and eye level viewfinder like other Canon dslrs and the LCD touchscreen can be used in LiveView mode, too. I find holding a smaller camera steadily a bit of a challenge compared to a full size dslr, but I'm confident I can adapt and achieve a satisfactory keeper rate.

I hope this lends a bit of insight.
Cal



Aug 02, 2015 at 03:26 PM
curious80
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?



but the keeper rate was low due to mostly due to my inability to sufficiently hold the camera steady using what a friend of mine calls the "dirty diaper inspection" position. That is, holding the camera with arms extended and looking at the LCD screen to frame my shots. I found it very iffy, at best, missing a lot of shots due to my own inability to be stable in this position, blurred images and missed framing.


I hear this argument very often but I don't understand why you have to hold a mirrorless camera that way. I certainly don't. I hold my mirrorless cameras exactly as I hold my DSLRs with my elbows tucked into my body for stability. For older folks who are far sighted and need the screen to be far from their face to see it, I understand the need for extending the arms out and I agree that it is not a stable position. However for others there is no reason to hold a mirrorless camera with extended arms. I don't see any stability loss in using my EOS-M or Sony A6000 compared to my Nikon D7000 DSLR.




Aug 02, 2015 at 03:45 PM
calk
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


@curious80

You certainly make a good point, however, my no-line bifocal lens eyeglasses require that I lean my head uncomfortably far back to be able to clearly see the screen. In my case it just made the camera inordinately difficult to use. Poor screen visibility in daylight, I don't attribute to being "older folks".

Cal



Aug 02, 2015 at 04:22 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


curious80 wrote:
I hear this argument very often but I don't understand why you have to hold a mirrorless camera that way. I certainly don't. I hold my mirrorless cameras exactly as I hold my DSLRs with my elbows tucked into my body for stability. For older folks who are far sighted and need the screen to be far from their face to see it, I understand the need for extending the arms out and I agree that it is not a stable position. However for others there is no reason to hold a mirrorless camera with extended arms. I don't see
...Show more

Lucky you. Some "younger folk" are both farsighted and unable to compose with a washed out sunlit screen, not just the average OF. Of course use of an EVF with diopter adjustment solves the "at arm's length" gotcha as well as affording additional bracing against the face.



Aug 02, 2015 at 04:29 PM
dmahar
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


I have an eos m and the new m3 (plus 60d,5diii &1div). For the needs you describe I could live with the m3 - but not the original m. M3 image quality, full set of control dials, viewfinder and better focus speed all make a huge difference. However for the price of entry to m3 land you have a number of dslr choices that are hard to overlook.


Aug 02, 2015 at 04:33 PM
curious80
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


calk wrote:
@curious80

You certainly make a good point, however, my no-line bifocal lens eyeglasses require that I lean my head uncomfortably far back to be able to clearly see the screen. In my case it just made the camera inordinately difficult to use. Poor screen visibility in daylight, I don't attribute to being "older folks".

Cal


Gochugogi wrote:
Lucky you. Some "younger folk" are both farsighted and unable to compose with a washed out sunlit screen, not just the average OF. Of course use of an EVF with diopter adjustment solves the "at arm's length" gotcha as well as affording additional bracing against the face.


First, I might have used a poor choice of words in saying 'older folks. I am not young either - getting very close to 40 now. Its just that last time I mentioned that I don't hold my mirrorless cameras at arms length I was advised that this is not possible for older folks, hence the remark. I apologize if came off as being rude / insensitive.

Washed out screen is a very different problem and holding at arms length doesn't solve that. I was specifically talking about arms length remark. Saying that, I have used my mirrorless cameras in all sorts of conditions in last few years including out door shots of kids and family, landscape shots, indoor shots with heavy backlit, and in none of those conditions I have found LCD visibility to be an issue on either my A6000 or EOS-M. Perhaps if you shoot at noon with direct sunlight on your LCD then you might get that issue but in all of my regular use I have never had that issue.



Aug 02, 2015 at 05:23 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · EOS M vs SL1 for first small-ish entry cam?


Or if you live near a white sand beach in the sun drenched tropics like I do. Even sidewalks are too bright to look at! I can barely open my eyes unless I wear really dark sun glasses. LCD screens are basically invisible save for indoors, shade or night.


Aug 02, 2015 at 06:02 PM





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