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Archive 2015 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(
  
 
uhoh7
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Bob Parsons had a pretty good look and others too at DPI:

"The 35mm Summicron ASPH was the first Leica M lens I tried on the A7RII because it's corner performance was so bad on the A7II and A7R. Sadly I've not found much improvement in the smearing. In fact I didn't even develop the files, just viewed the magnified corners of the image in the viewfinder. On the A7RII the corners still show the odd effect of being diffuse one side of focus and a double image on the other side of focus. The best focus point still has significant smearing. This is so very different compared to the corner performance of the little 35/2.8 FE lens on the A7RII, there's just no comparison. Even stopped down the Summicron is no match for the FE lens at full aperture.

Bob."

Not looking very good. But at least the Kolari option for the older models is working very well.

here is the thread



Aug 01, 2015 at 06:10 AM
phuang3
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Bad news for me. I was hoping the opposite.


Aug 01, 2015 at 06:19 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


phuang3 wrote:
Bad news for me. I was hoping the opposite.


Well we better wait to bury the issue. But these guys are looking close and know the issue.

I thought the BSI would really help, but looks like I was wrong....surprise surprise




Aug 01, 2015 at 06:26 AM
Charlie N
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


that's too bad, well, kolari will be doing well then.


Aug 01, 2015 at 06:39 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


As long as the sensor cover is the same thickness, nothing will change in terms of smearing. We have known that all along.


Aug 01, 2015 at 06:50 AM
phuang3
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Why SONY applied a thick sensor cover is a mystery. Because of this, A7 series can only adapt non-symmetrical wide angle lenses which are usually bulky and distortion prone.


Aug 01, 2015 at 07:41 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(




phuang3 wrote:
Why SONY applied a thick sensor cover is a mystery. Because of this, A7 series can only adapt non-symmetrical wide angle lenses which are usually bulky and distortion prone.


It's a real pity, but unfortunately now that they have released so many lenses that are designed for this cover thickness, there is no chance it would change in the foreseeable future.



Aug 01, 2015 at 08:14 AM
LightShow
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Kolari will probably be the only solution for a while, oh well, one more reason to hold off any upgrades from my A7r.


Aug 01, 2015 at 08:43 AM
Mac313
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Lets not jump to conclusion just yet,personally I'll wait for a proper bench test.
Fingers crossed



Aug 01, 2015 at 09:02 AM
Viramati
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


I agree with the above. Luckily the only 2 M wides I have left (WATE and CV21/1.8 and CV35/1.2) all perform pretty well on the A7 series but any improvement will be welcome.


Aug 01, 2015 at 09:09 AM
 

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Mac313
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


If comprehensive tests shows that there is improvment with the zeiss ZM35 1.4 over A7r I'll be happy as hell


Aug 01, 2015 at 09:49 AM
artur5
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Edward is spot on. Sony won't be so stupěd as to change significantly the thickness of the sensor stack all of a sudden, jeopardising the performances of all the current E lenses -be it Sony or Zeiss..
The thick cover is here to stay. There're 99.999% chances that the performances with 'troublesome' RF wides won't improve a bit, regarding smearing, in spite of new sensor designs, which could help only with vigneting and color cast in the corners.
But we all have known this for quite a while, haven't we ?. I don't see how anybody would hold any hope on the A7rII being different from the other A7 models in this aspect. Understandable wishful thinking I guess..



Aug 01, 2015 at 12:39 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


The Leica 35/2 ASPH is an extreme case, I am not surprised that it still has issues on the A7R II, too. I tested it on my A7R and it was simply horrible - no matter what you do with this lens, you will never get sharp corners on the A7 series cameras. IMO even the Kolari modification won't help a lot here for this lens because it also shows severe focus shift in the center of the image. This said, I also believe that the sensor stack thickness did not change in the A7R II to work better with rangefinder lenses.


Aug 01, 2015 at 12:54 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


artur5 wrote:
Edward is spot on. Sony won't be so stupěd as to change significantly the thickness of the sensor stack all of a sudden, jeopardising the performances of all the current E lenses -be it Sony or Zeiss..
The thick cover is here to stay. There're 99.999% chances that the performances with 'troublesome' RF wides won't improve a bit, regarding smearing, in spite of new sensor designs, which could help only with vigneting and color cast in the corners.
But we all have known this for quite a while, haven't we ?. I don't see how anybody would hold any hope on the
...Show more

This is very unfortunate if it turns out that there is no improvement at all. I do believe though that there is at least one technical reason to believe things might improve at least a little and that is the wider angel ray acceptance of the BSI sensor design.

http://www.embedded-vision.com/sites/default/files/technical-articles/EDNImageSensors/Figure2c.jpg



Aug 01, 2015 at 01:05 PM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


uhoh7 wrote:
Bob Parsons had a pretty good look and others too at DPI:

"The 35mm Summicron ASPH was the first Leica M lens I tried on the A7RII because it's corner performance was so bad on the A7II and A7R. Sadly I've not found much improvement in the smearing. In fact I didn't even develop the files, just viewed the magnified corners of the image in the viewfinder. On the A7RII the corners still show the odd effect of being diffuse one side of focus and a double image on the other side of focus. The best focus point still has significant
...Show more

I moved to R lenses to avoid this issue entirely, so I don't care either way. However, I do think reporting all Leica wide lenses not playing well with the a7r II, based on one single report, from a guy who tried a couple lenses and didn't even get to look at the files (he used the viewfinder) as "not playing well with Leica wides" is a bit over the top.

It's very possible there is little or no improvement, or that there is some improvement. We don't know yet, because we haven't see a full test, and that single original post, is far, far from an actual test of any kind. It's tantamount to 'my friend's friend said'..




Aug 01, 2015 at 01:48 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


I personally think if a lens was on the edge of the fence working as it should than with BSI it should clear things up but do not expect miracles. I also look at it this way , you bought a Sony camera if a M lens works than its a bonus not a expectation that it should. Sony will never directly support anything but Sony glass period. Now it may support 3rd party vendors with there adapters to work on Sony cameras. That's a bonus for Sony but make this very clear Sony builds for Sony. Either you sell the M glass that don't work or buy a Leica body for it.

But seriously I want the bloody whining to stop over the whole issue. It don't work too bad go buy a Leica, Sony owes you ziltch. Stop blaming Sony.



Aug 01, 2015 at 01:51 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


Tariq Gibran wrote:
This is very unfortunate if it turns out that there is no improvement at all. I do believe though that there is at least one technical reason to believe things might improve at least a little and that is the wider angel ray acceptance of the BSI sensor design.

http://www.embedded-vision.com/sites/default/files/technical-articles/EDNImageSensors/Figure2c.jpg


I was thinking so, too. I guess that, since the difference for the BSI sensor is measured in microns, it must not be enough to effect things like the millimeters of sensor glass that we have to contend with.



Aug 01, 2015 at 01:54 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


douglasf13 wrote:
I was thinking so, too. I guess that, since the difference for the BSI sensor is measured in microns, it must not be enough to effect things like the millimeters of sensor glass that we have to contend with.


Hi Douglas. At least with the Samsung BSI used in the NX1, they claim a 70% improvement in angle of light to the photodiode. I still suspect we might see some improvements with Sony's BSI sensor. I will probably end up renting an A7rII just to see what, if any, improvements there are over my stock A7r.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/27/photokina-interview-samsung-nx1-redefine-pro-performance-quantum-leap-tech



Aug 01, 2015 at 02:11 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(




Tariq Gibran wrote:
This is very unfortunate if it turns out that there is no improvement at all. I do believe though that there is at least one technical reason to believe things might improve at least a little and that is the wider angel ray acceptance of the BSI sensor design.

http://www.embedded-vision.com/sites/default/files/technical-articles/EDNImageSensors/Figure2c.jpg


But Tariq, the corner smearing is not caused by the angle of incidence. We will definitely see an improvement in vignetting and color shading due to the better sensor design, but only a thinner sensor cover will reduce the smearing as Leica and Canon (in the pro 1Ds series) have known since the beginning and acted accordingly.



Aug 01, 2015 at 02:17 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Apparently A7rII is not playing well with Leica wides. :(


edwardkaraa wrote:
But Tariq, the corner smearing is not caused by the angle of incidence. We will definitely see an improvement in vignetting and color shading due to the better sensor design, but only a thinner sensor cover will reduce the smearing as Leica and Canon (in the pro 1Ds series) have known since the beginning and acted accordingly.


Perhaps. Leica and Canon did not have BSI sensors back then so it's possible, along with the thick cover glass issue, the sensor design might aid with more than just vignetting/ color shading...but I don't know. Maybe it depends upon the degree the cover glass alters the light ray angle and if the improvement of the BSI angle acceptance is enough to overcome that. Maybe with some lenses, it will.

I'm curious as to your statement "corner smearing is not caused by the angle of incidence". What is it caused by then? I thought that the thicker cover glass altered the angle of incidence off axis and that was the cause??



Aug 01, 2015 at 02:25 PM
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