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Archive 2015 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II

  
 
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


hiepphotog wrote:
I personally found the construction of the CV 35/1.2 is sub-par compared to even the cheap SLR manual lens.


Wow, that's quite a dramatic statement. I have not handled the CV 35/1.2 but all of the other Voigtlnader lenses I have owned or own have a rather nice physical feel and the appearance of nice, outward build quality. Have you taken one apart or is this particular lens not up to the rest of the line (which is counter to many reviews I have read on it).







Aug 01, 2015 at 04:49 PM
Makten
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks. I was not so impressed (maybe I expected too much) with the ZF 35/2 when I owned it as it suffered some fairly bad CA and softness at the borders/ corners, even stopped down at F8. As such - for my use (corner to corner infinity landscape) - it was no better than the other 35's I have owned. As far as micro contrast and color though, it was good (though I actually found the ZF 25/2.8 better in that respect). The Z* 35/1.4 would never work for me as a general purpose lens given your description as
...Show more

Have you tried the Loxia 35/2? I think it's a fantastic lens, especially for stopped-down work. I also think it has one of the best bokehs at medium-long distances among all the 35 mm lenses I've tried. Only the ZF 35/1.4 gets close.
Even if the Voigtländer is sharp stopped down, the colors are not to my liking. It seems that small nuances get lost and it's kind of dull. Just like most other Voigtländer lenses. I actually like the little 40/2 Ultron much better. It's a great lens that is also very ergonomically good on the a7, with adapter.

Here's a picture with the Loxia that shows the special bokeh at medium-large distance.


Loxia bokeh by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr

The CV 35/1.2 would give a really nasty, harsh bokeh at this distance, even stopped down (I think this was at f/4). They are really opposite in their behaviours. The Loxia being harsh when doing closeups.



Aug 01, 2015 at 05:07 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Makten wrote:
Have you tried the Loxia 35/2? I think it's a fantastic lens, especially for stopped-down work. I also think it has one of the best bokehs at medium-long distances among all the 35 mm lenses I've tried. Only the ZF 35/1.4 gets close.
Even if the Voigtländer is sharp stopped down, the colors are not to my liking. It seems that small nuances get lost and it's kind of dull. Just like most other Voigtländer lenses. I actually like the little 40/2 Ultron much better. It's a great lens that is also very ergonomically good on the a7, with adapter.

Here's
...Show more

When I owned the Loxia 35/2, I was not that impressed with it's abilities with regard to corner to corner sharpness at distance on the A7r (even compared to some $100 alt lenses) but I never really looked at it's bokeh qualities. I have a few 40's which I like - including the often maligned Voigtlander 40/1.4 - but in the end find them not quite wide enough. I also have some 28 - 31's which are very good but oddly the 35mm focal length is tricky (and it's my favorite). Right now, my Pentax 31 Ltd is as close to perfect that I have found optically for my use.



Aug 01, 2015 at 05:33 PM
hiepphotog
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Wow, that's quite a dramatic statement. I have not handled the CV 35/1.2 but all of the other Voigtlnader lenses I have owned or own have a rather nice physical feel and the appearance of nice, outward build quality. Have you taken one apart or is this particular lens not up to the rest of the line (which is counter to many reviews I have read on it).




I have tried the Chrome version 1 and 4 copies of version 2, so it's not a one-off thing. The focus ring construction is just too flimsy that when I focus, it tends to bind randomly (not smooth); the seller of the Chrome V1 said it's normal for M-mount lenses. I don't get such thing from operating any SLR lens, even the lowly Takumar. It might be understandable since these RF lenses are smaller than usual so some compromises have been made. Admittedly, I have not tried other ZMs but the Leica lenses I have tried are buttery smooth. The Lux 50 ASPH might show random binding when shooting in vertical position. And apparently some other Lux 50 ASPH users experienced the same thing, more so on the black version. The 3 lenses I have now are all buttery though: ZM 15, Cron 28 and 50AA.



Aug 02, 2015 at 11:47 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


hiepphotog wrote:
I have tried the Chrome version 1 and 4 copies of version 2, so it's not a one-off thing. The focus ring construction is just too flimsy that when I focus, it tends to bind randomly (not smooth); the seller of the Chrome V1 said it's normal for M-mount lenses. I don't get such thing from operating any SLR lens, even the lowly Takumar. It might be understandable since these RF lenses are smaller than usual so some compromises have been made. Admittedly, I have not tried other ZMs but the Leica lenses I have tried are buttery smooth. The
...Show more

That's interesting and after so many copies, certainly not one-off for that lens. My Voigtlanders don't exhibit that issue though - at least to a degree that I notice. The older, Pentax "lowly" Takumar's were some of the most expensively made lenses ever and the focusing helicoids are often silky smooth in my experience.



Aug 02, 2015 at 12:49 PM
aly324
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Makten wrote:
Even if the Voigtländer is sharp stopped down, the colors are not to my liking. It seems that small nuances get lost and it's kind of dull. Just like most other Voigtländer lenses. I actually like the little 40/2 Ultron much better. It's a great lens that is also very ergonomically good on the a7, with adapter.


That's consistent with my experience of shooting CV VM lenses alongside Contax Zeiss and Leica. Maybe "bolder macro contrast, lower micro contrast" is the way to describe it.



Aug 02, 2015 at 03:14 PM
retrofocus
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


hiepphotog wrote:
I have tried the Chrome version 1 and 4 copies of version 2, so it's not a one-off thing. The focus ring construction is just too flimsy that when I focus, it tends to bind randomly (not smooth); the seller of the Chrome V1 said it's normal for M-mount lenses. I don't get such thing from operating any SLR lens, even the lowly Takumar. It might be understandable since these RF lenses are smaller than usual so some compromises have been made. Admittedly, I have not tried other ZMs but the Leica lenses I have tried are buttery smooth. The
...Show more

I do not agree with the statement that the CV 35/1.2 II is not well built - I regard it in the same range as old Leica built styles. My focus with the CV 35/1.2 is very smooth without issues. Sounds to me like your lens copy is not okay. You really used 4 copies exhibiting the same issue? C'on....



Aug 02, 2015 at 06:44 PM
hiepphotog
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


retrofocus wrote:
I do not agree with the statement that the CV 35/1.2 II is not well built - I regard it in the same range as old Leica built styles. My focus with the CV 35/1.2 is very smooth without issues. Sounds to me like your lens copy is not okay. You really used 4 copies exhibiting the same issue? C'on....


Well, yes. I'm not here to convince anyone not buying the CV. It's my own personal experience. Focus action experience can vary, your smooth might not be mine. The first time I got that Chrome V1, I asked the seller as well, and he said he didn't find any problem with it because his other M lenses behave the same. Soon later, I bought version 2 to compare, and the same binding problem happened. The lens has that appealing f/1.2 and lovely bokeh and fairly affordable, and that's why I keep selling and buying in hope of finding a "good" copy.

Now, if you are familiar with the Lux 50 ASPH, this binding action is often associated with when the floating element is engaged. I don't know if it's applicable here or not, but I don't really care. This is not a lens for me.



Aug 02, 2015 at 07:12 PM
aly324
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Interesting. I also used 4 different copies of the Nokton 35 1.2 v2 (one on the XE1 and then 3 more copies on the A7/A7R). None of them exhibited uneven focus resistance. Actually the Noktons all felt great, although I have misgivings about the colors it gives on Sony sensors, as stated above.

I don't believe the Nokton has a floating element.

By contrast the 3 copies of the Summilux-M 35 non-FLE I've owned have been less good mechanically. But they're all older, to be sure.



Aug 02, 2015 at 07:26 PM
mikethevilla
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


retrofocus wrote:
I do not agree with the statement that the CV 35/1.2 II is not well built - I regard it in the same range as old Leica built styles. My focus with the CV 35/1.2 is very smooth without issues. Sounds to me like your lens copy is not okay. You really used 4 copies exhibiting the same issue? C'on....


I'm basing my "not well-built" claims off of my repair man's notes from when he has actually had the lens apart. Lesser materials, looser tolerances, not as much adjustability, etc...

I should note that when using it (and it's properly calibrated), it feels very good to me. Very smooth focus and slightly loose, but nice and click aperture ring. I enjoy using it.

Something that my repair guy pointed out is that if you grab each end of the lens and bend or pull it apart a bit, you'll see the gap between the focus ring and the body of the lens expand and contract. This doesn't happen in the more modern Leica lenses. That's the "play" and lack of calibration that comes from the lower build quality.



Aug 02, 2015 at 11:01 PM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Processed in LR, shot at f5.6.



And about f2.8.




Aug 03, 2015 at 04:15 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


mikethevilla wrote:
I'm basing my "not well-built" claims off of my repair man's notes from when he has actually had the lens apart. Lesser materials, looser tolerances, not as much adjustability, etc...

I should note that when using it (and it's properly calibrated), it feels very good to me. Very smooth focus and slightly loose, but nice and click aperture ring. I enjoy using it.

Something that my repair guy pointed out is that if you grab each end of the lens and bend or pull it apart a bit, you'll see the gap between the focus ring and the body of the lens
...Show more

Thanks for clarifyuing this potential issue - certainly something to keep in mind. Regarding Leica lenses, I wouldn't say that their built quality in more recent times is so good anymore either. A friend of mine bought a new 90/2.5 M lens, and the aperture ring on top came pretty loose - some plastic piece underneath was broken. This is just a single case of course - not sure if this was more unique or if it happens more often.



Aug 03, 2015 at 06:35 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


retrofocus wrote:
Thanks for clarifyuing this potential issue - certainly something to keep in mind. Regarding Leica lenses, I wouldn't say that their built quality in more recent times is so good anymore either. A friend of mine bought a new 90/2.5 M lens, and the aperture ring on top came pretty loose - some plastic piece underneath was broken. This is just a single case of course - not sure if this was more unique or if it happens more often.



As I mentioned previously, it's probably a lens by lens basis regardless of brand. Leica has been using plastics in some of their lenses since at least the mid/late 70's. In some instances, as with the Leica R 50 Summicron, those lenses have held up very well (plastic is of course not always a poor choice depending upon how/ where it's used) but in other instances - like the Leica VI M 35mm Summicron (and not for all of them but just certain years) - Leica skimped and didn't always choose the best material per use.

The Leica M 2.5's are the less expensive Leica lenses so perhaps Leica cut some corners...



Aug 03, 2015 at 07:27 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Tariq Gibran wrote:
As I mentioned previously, it's probably a lens by lens basis regardless of brand. Leica has been using plastics in some of their lenses since at least the mid/late 70's. In some instances, as with the Leica R 50 Summicron, those lenses have held up very well (plastic is of course not always a poor choice depending upon how/ where it's used) but in other instances - like the Leica VI M 35mm Summicron (and not for all of them but just certain years) - Leica skimped and didn't always choose the best material per use.

The Leica M
...Show more

Agreed - cost cutting how lenses are built affects all brands, too.



Aug 03, 2015 at 08:00 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


Jeff Kott wrote:
Unlike darrellc, I find value in a lens that will open up to 1.2/1.4 even if there is some loss of sharpness at the wide apertures, especially if the lens has pleasing bokeh as the CV 35/1.2 does.


Me too. Knowing sharpness improves around f2.0 one can hover around f2.0-2.8 and use 1.2 when light drops. I guess with fast lenses you have to learn to use them appropriately - no shooting at 1.2 when there's plenty of light - go to f2.0 or so.

Or not? Have you shot at 1.2 in 'bright' conditions without glow?



Aug 03, 2015 at 11:01 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


hiepphotog wrote:
I have tried the Chrome version 1 and 4 copies of version 2, so it's not a one-off thing. The focus ring construction is just too flimsy that when I focus, it tends to bind randomly (not smooth); the seller of the Chrome V1 said it's normal for M-mount lenses. I don't get such thing from operating any SLR lens, even the lowly Takumar. It might be understandable since these RF lenses are smaller than usual so some compromises have been made. Admittedly, I have not tried other ZMs but the Leica lenses I have tried are buttery smooth. The
...Show more

I've only had experience with a single copy of the 35/1.2 vII, which I still own and was from early in their production. Shortly after receiving it, the focusing ring started 'slipping' so that when it was turned, the focus didn't change. It got to the point where I pretty much stopped using it because of this until I could get it serviced. It's fine now, but can't get over the feeling that it will happen again.

The silver 50 Lux ASPH I bought used always had a very smooth/loose focusing feel. It got to the point where it required several trips to Leica over the span of a few years to tighten the body of the lens in order to regain correct focus calibration. It seemed even about 1mm of play in the lens body was enough to throw off RF calibration, which doesn't surprise me... The last time in, I complained about this and Leica replaced the 'focus mount'. I'm not entirely sure what exactly that is, but the RF cam is new and the focus action is extremely tight, which is reassuring. That said, the lens came back focusing past infinity when set to the infinity hard stop, which is quite disastrous if you're used to shooting distant scenes at the hard stop because image quality degrades very rapidly when focused beyond infinity. I can discern this reduction of sharpness even when stopped down to around f/8... so have had to back off from the hard stop by about 1-2mm... It needs to go back to Leica, but that's such a hassle and to compound it, they've given me the runaround about the problem. Very frustrating.

My impression of Leica's M lenses after a few years of ownership is that they're made of high quality materials, but that with constant use, they will eventually loosen to the point of some play. Some seem worse than others, but my sampling base is too small to make any certain assessments. Based on online tutorials, some of this can be fixed with the right homemade tools. But otherwise, I would suggest Leica M lens owners budget for periodic servicing by Leica.



Aug 05, 2015 at 11:23 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Voigtlander 35 f1.2 II Nokton on A7 II


I was using the 35mm f1.2 II Nokton (secondhand) under a 15-day warranty. I ummed and ahhed about it and on impulse sent off an email. Two days later I bussed up to the mall and waited for the shop to open where I swapped it for a mint used A7r I knew they had on the shelf. So now I have an A7 II and an A7r - a nice pairing.

I am going to continue my search for a compatible, likeable 35mm. I have been eyeing the 35mm f2 Summicron-M, maybe even an R...

Thanks for the input, replies and posts.



Aug 06, 2015 at 02:29 AM
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