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Archive 2015 · Display, and web sharpening questions.

  
 
ben egbert
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Thanks Fred. I assume this means 1000 kb, and max height or width 1600 pixels. Is this posted someplace in the rules?

These will be great improvements for us.



Jul 25, 2015 at 08:40 PM
Dave R.
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


dhphoto wrote:
Insulting? Really?

You should catch me when I'm being insulting, it's nothing like that post.


How true. You are really something a mother could NOT be proud of.




Jul 26, 2015 at 07:56 AM
jcolwell
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


ben egbert wrote:
I assume this means 1000 kb, and max height or width 1600 pixels. Is this posted someplace in the rules?


No. The FAQ guidelines for Image Upload still says "640 pixels" max. dimension and "550 KB" for max. file size. I asked Fred if he could update this while I was experimenting with the file-size limits (as discussed in the threads linked in my next post); it's relatively low on his priority list.



Jul 26, 2015 at 09:01 AM
jcolwell
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Fred Miranda wrote:
We don't compress jpeg images.


This is true. If the image is too large, it is automatically resized. See,

- https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1345899/0#12838659
- https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1366424



Jul 26, 2015 at 09:02 AM
ben egbert
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


jcolwell wrote:
No. The FAQ guidelines for Image Upload still says "640 pixels" max. dimension and "550 KB" for max. file size. I asked Fred if he could update this while I was experimenting with the file-size limits (as discussed in the threads linked in my next post); it's relatively low on his priority list.


That does not agree with Fred's last reply about 3 up from here. It clearly says 1600 wide or 1600 high, but he did not put units so I am assuming the height and width are pixels and 1000 is kb.

I have been posting 1024 at the critique forum for a couple years, only at landscape did I get the 850 wide limit and that was verbal because a lot of people post much larger before they get the warning.

There is a large image today at Landscape. It is1400 wide 1.14 MB. Took a while for it to load. It is with 2 other smaller images.

I am thinking that 1200 would be a good compromise size.




Jul 26, 2015 at 09:54 AM
jcolwell
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


ben egbert wrote:
I assume this means 1000 kb, and max height or width 1600 pixels. Is this posted someplace in the rules?

jcolwell wrote:
No. The FAQ guidelines for Image Upload still says "640 pixels" max. dimension and "550 KB" for max. file size. I asked Fred if he could update this while I was experimenting with the file-size limits (as discussed in the threads linked in my next post); it's relatively low on his priority list.

ben egbert wrote:
That does not agree with Fred's last reply about 3 up from here. It clearly says 1600 wide or 1600 high...


I know, but that's what it currently says in the FAQ. That's why I asked him to change it in February of this year. Unfortunately, he hasn't yet had time to update the FAQ.




Jul 26, 2015 at 11:19 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


jcolwell wrote:
I know, but that's what it currently says in the FAQ. That's why I asked him to change it in February of this year. Unfortunately, he hasn't yet had time to update the FAQ.



I will change the FAQ right now.



Jul 26, 2015 at 11:27 AM
jcolwell
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Thanks, Fred.


Jul 26, 2015 at 11:44 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


I just updated it and changed the settings again.

The site will allow images as big as 1,000 Kb (which is huge for the web) and up to 2,000 pixel for the biggest dimension. FM will never compress images but will resize images bigger than 2,000 px back to 2,000 pixels.

The exception is the buy and sell boards where the biggest dimension can't surpass 1,000 pixel. Anything bigger will have a zoom (+) and zoom (-) icon as you mouse over.

Best,
Fred



Jul 26, 2015 at 11:48 AM
ben egbert
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Thanks Fred, and I hope people use it with some care.

Just read the updated FAQ. While 2000 px are allowed, it asks that 800px be used. I guess this is the way it has been at Landscape for as long as I can remember.

I guess the best solution is to simply post a link to a larger image for those of us with old eyes.



Jul 26, 2015 at 12:03 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


That all sounds good but then why are my uploaded files displaying at 1/3 to 1/2 the uploaded size? I tried downloading one of the phalarope shots and it downloads at the new smaller size that my EXIF viewer is showing. I'm still really confused by this.


Jul 26, 2015 at 12:44 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


arbitrage wrote:
That all sounds good but then why are my uploaded files displaying at 1/3 to 1/2 the uploaded size? I tried downloading one of the phalarope shots and it downloads at the new smaller size that my EXIF viewer is showing. I'm still really confused by this.


re-upload them and it should work.



Jul 26, 2015 at 01:06 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


ben egbert wrote:
Thanks Fred, and I hope people use it with some care.

Just read the updated FAQ. While 2000 px are allowed, it asks that 800px be used. I guess this is the way it has been at Landscape for as long as I can remember.

I guess the best solution is to simply post a link to a larger image for those of us with old eyes.


With the advent of 4k monitors, 800px may not be optimal anymore. However, it seems that most photographers are still using 2-3k monitors. It's very common to see images at 1,000px for the biggest dimension now.



Jul 26, 2015 at 01:08 PM
arbitrage
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Testing a new upload....

File on my HD was 700KB....file on FM 436KB....still a mystery to me. I tried one with frame and without to see if that was the issue but both show 436KB.

I opened the image in Preview on my mac and swiped between the FM page and the opened image. Noticeable compression has occurred to the image in the fine feather detail. It hasn't ruined the image by any means but it is doing something to it.

Am I the only one seeing this massive file size change to uploaded images? Could someone else test and see what they get. Thanks.













Edited on Jul 26, 2015 at 10:53 PM · View previous versions



Jul 26, 2015 at 10:20 PM
Shutterbug2006
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


Is it an optical illusion, or does the image looker darker when I view it by clicking on it? I notice one has a grey surround and one is black ... Which could produce the optical illusion I guess....


Jul 26, 2015 at 10:32 PM
rolette
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


gdanmitchell wrote:
In answer to the general question, it is the nature of the web that you simply cannot fully control the display of your photographs. Sorry, but there is no current solution to that. Even if you use the most appropriate rgb color space, carefully size and sharpen your images, and all the rest, ultimately you/we are at the mercy of the monitor on which the photographs are viewed...

... and it could be a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a large stand-alone monitor, a television, you name it. Its resolution could range from quite low (televisions, even modern televisions) to quite
...Show more

Doesn't really apply within the context of FM, but you can adjust for browser window size and screen resolution if you have your own website. Based on that, you can serve up different images sharpened appropriately if you go to the trouble to generate them in the first place.

Not really worth the trouble, IMO, but technically doable.

Nothing you can do about lighting conditions and the generally gross lack of monitor calibration, but you have to hope the people that would notice those differences are taking care of business on their end.

Jay



Jul 27, 2015 at 06:30 AM
ben egbert
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


arbitrage wrote:
Testing a new upload....

File on my HD was 700KB....file on FM 436KB....still a mystery to me. I tried one with frame and without to see if that was the issue but both show 436KB.

I opened the image in Preview on my mac and swiped between the FM page and the opened image. Noticeable compression has occurred to the image in the fine feather detail. It hasn't ruined the image by any means but it is doing something to it.

Am I the only one seeing this massive file size change to uploaded images? Could someone else test and see what
...Show more

I saved the first to my HD and get 436 kb in size.



Jul 27, 2015 at 08:32 AM
Zenon Char
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


For emails and FB I usually go about 900 pixels on the long side. I find 1200 comfortable for posting on sites. I use PS for hobby shots and LR for mass edits. What I like about Adobe is the masking on the sharpening page which I run at about 80. Masking which is edge sharpening which prevents unwanted sharpening of backgrounds and flat areas like the body of a car, plane fuselage or facial features like a cheek, etc especially if there is noise from low light shooting. For planes and cars which edge sharpening gives this special look I can't quite describe. More on edge sharpening later where you really see that look.

FYI. Resolution amount for web viewing has no effect. You can set it to 1 or 1000 and you won't see any difference.

I use follow 3 phases of sharpening although I don't always apply phase 2.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-sharpening.htm

You are technically not sharpening anything. You are just increasing contrast between pixels and it is easy to over do it which creates halos and artifacts. I always resize first and then sharpen viewing at 100%.

LR has an export page which I really had to get used to. You really have no visual control over sharpening so I had a hard time with it. Only media type and low, standard and high. After reading about this I learned that output sharpening was developed for Adobe by the Pixel Genius group. The late great Bruce Fraser who was a PS guru and member is considered the father of the 3 phases. I think there is a lot of things happening in the background we don't know about. Tests with local printers produced excellent results so I just trust it now. I don't print very often so I needed to be sure clients got decent files. Output is so easy with LR I provide two sets. One with 900 on the long side for web and about 2400 for print.

For hobby shots I use PS. My output method for the last 3-4 years. I came across this which is also an edge sharpening method. You can over sharpen and feather back at the end. Over the years I have found that no 2 images are alike.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/photoshop-really-smart-sharpening.html?search=edge+mask&bool=and

I used bits and pieces from these two videos and created an action using the above RRS method that stops so I can resize, starts again and automatically applies 300% using smart sharpen and then stops again so I can apply the masking amount. At end I feather back as required to get rid of the halos and artifacts.

Most of it is about print size and upsizing but there is a bit about the web method.



One more thing. For web viewing what you see what is what get. For print I have read it is good to over sharpen just a tad to compensate for printing. The ink can tend to spread out a bit as it is being applied to the media. This depends on media type and why a choice is offered in LR.

There are many output sharpening methods out there and lots of plugins. Pixel Genius has there own. Every 6 months or so I explore to see what os new bit so far I have stayed with my method.



Jul 27, 2015 at 10:24 AM
Zenon Char
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


I start the action and it stops to resize. As you can see I just leave it at 300 pixels.

~original[/IMG]

Next stop - masking. You can see the background that will be sharpened.

~original[/IMG]

I apply the masking

~original[/IMG]

Then feather back as required. No 2 images are alike. Sometimes it needs none and other times I need to take it back almost all the way.

~original[/IMG]



Jul 27, 2015 at 10:33 AM
Zenon Char
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Display, and web sharpening questions.


I have a feeling that edge sharpening is going in the background when using LR's output page but I can't back that.


Jul 27, 2015 at 10:35 AM
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