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Archive 2015 · Big Whites ...

  
 
RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Big Whites ...


So I've upped my glass to include the 100-400 II and am liking it so far.

Then certain folks in this forum had the audacity to call it mid-level glass.

Combine that with watching someone hand-holding a big white (no idea which one) the other day at the airport, it got me thinking ...

I've been a long advocate of the concept that "glass rules". So, with the recent release of the 5Ds / 5DsR ... an investment into one of those bodies has been on my mind for a possible future purchase.

My question is this:

Instead of spending $$$ on a 5Ds / 5DsR ... what Big White would you recommend for a step up from the likes of a 100-400 II as an entry into the world of Big Whites ... for roughly the same $$$ as a 5Ds / 5DsR



Jul 20, 2015 at 08:29 AM
big country
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Big Whites ...


for the same amount as the 5ds? I do not think there is a big white that qualifies.



Jul 20, 2015 at 08:45 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Big Whites ...


Glass may rule, but "longer is better" is a misconception. A longer telephoto lens is only better if you can handle the weight and bulk, and use it properly. It is no better than getting closer with a shorter focal-length lens. The longer the lens, the more problems you can have with air pollution and heat shimmers.

If, and that is a big IF, the cropped image from a 5Ds and 400mm would give me an image equal in IQ to that of an un-cropped image from a 500mm lens, I would take the 5Ds any day. JMO

Which would you rather pack around and shoot handheld with, your 1D MK II and a 500 f4, or a 5Ds and your 100-400 II, if they both gave the same results?



Jul 20, 2015 at 08:49 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Big Whites ...


big country wrote:
for the same amount as the 5ds? I do not think there is a big white that qualifies.


He could always pick up a used 500 f4.5 or 300 f2.8 for a similar price.



Jul 20, 2015 at 08:53 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Big Whites ...


+1 @ the diff between "glass rules" and "longer is better". I do believe the former, not necessarily the latter.

Just exploring options for consideration ... looking for brainstorming primers that are outside of my previous box.



Jul 20, 2015 at 09:07 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Big Whites ...


big country wrote:
for the same amount as the 5ds? I do not think there is a big white that qualifies.


I think the operative word was "roughly" ... translated to mean "how close can you get" +/-



Jul 20, 2015 at 09:10 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Big Whites ...


Even though I called the 100-400II a mid-level glass....it was more out of sarcasm in the overall tone of that thread. I assume was me that you refer to. That said the optics on the 100-400II shot at appropriate subject distances will produce images that can rival images shot with the big whites. Obviously the ultimate resolving power of the 1-4II is not the same as the 300f/2.8ISII or the 600 f/4ISII but unless you are planning to makes some giant prints of birds, it really won't make a bit of difference.

Tony brings up very good points...long glass still needs to be shot at good distances....a lot of my recent bird images shot with 600II+2x or 1.4x are shot close to MFD of the lens. Long glass doesn't always equal a better image if the subject is too far and atmospheric effects are involved. Also many missed opportunities occur with long glass....better if you handhold but if you use tripod or even monopod you miss all sorts of stuff that a 1-4 handheld would get you.

For the cost of the 5DS, I don't think any big white options will give you much benefit over the 1-4II. Maybe an older 300 f/2.8 with TCs but that is about it.



Jul 20, 2015 at 09:11 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Big Whites ...


The 100-400 v2 is a beautiful lens if its functionality fits your needs, no matter what some forumtographer might call it. It performs very competently and is capable of producing excellent image quality with a range of subjects.

Edited on Jul 20, 2015 at 09:35 AM · View previous versions



Jul 20, 2015 at 09:22 AM
darbo
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Big Whites ...


In this case forget "glass rules" and get your 5DS/R to go with your very good 100-400L II. I think you'll be happy with that combo. I have the exact same advice for myself: I plan to buy a 100-400L II to go with my 5DS (although also considering the image-quality-comparable Sigma 150-600mm options as well).


Jul 20, 2015 at 09:33 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Big Whites ...


Thanks guys ... many interesting points.

BTW ... I think I forgot an in my OP regarding the "mid level" audacity.

But, it did get me wondering if a Big White might be something for future planning. As a "generalist" shooter, it mostly sounds like folks are saying that you really need to be a "specialty" shooter to warrant the diff in IQ & $$$$.



Jul 20, 2015 at 10:13 AM
fraga
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Big Whites ...


Glass rules but a new camera will affect all your current glass.
Keep that in mind.
If the camera is a big step up, then it might be preferable than a shiny new lens that will only be used in some specific situations. This holds particularly true when discussing a long prime. It is a very specific tool, to be used under particular situations.
A long (both physically and in terms of focal length) and heavy prime is not a general use lens.
While I love my 600mm, for a myriad of reasons it doesn't get as much use as I would like.

That new sensor, on the other hand, will improve the results you get from all your current glass.



Jul 20, 2015 at 10:39 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Big Whites ...


If your subjects in the 100-400mm often look like dots then you need to get closer and decide if a longer focal length is still necessary. Even 1,200 mm is short for many 'random' subjects. You still need to find a way to get closer. Good light, good comp, good subject, good close subject. For roadside large animals, the 100-400 is probably the perfect lens to have beside a longer one.


Jul 20, 2015 at 11:43 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Big Whites ...


Give it up Kent! You're in denial if you don't admit that you really want a 500/4 L IS. Either before or after a 5DS/R. You only have to set your priorities, and then make your move.


Jul 20, 2015 at 12:48 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Big Whites ...


Hand holding a long lens is not really hard. I used to do fine with a 500F4 and 1.4 x attached. But that's because I 1/1000 or more was required for subject motion. Heck, even IS is optional.

But, pixel density matters. If that's all you need, the 7D2 works. In the old days, the 400f5.6 or 300f4 were the best bang for the buck. But the 100-400 v2 is probably better from the MTF charts I have seen.

I think 500 f4 is the sweet spot for dollars versus reach and sharpness in the supper teles.

My experience is the real improvement is subject isolation. 500 f4 versus 560 f8. for a 100-400 f5.6+1.4X is an example. Both can be sharp, but the 500F4 will pop.




Jul 20, 2015 at 12:54 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Big Whites ...


I have the 100-400 v1, 200-400 and 600v2 and my conclusion is:
The biggest difference between 100-400 and 200-400 or 600 is f4 vs f5.6 and
weight/size

Most of my shooting is in low light when the bears/moose/wolf are out. F4 really matters.

However, when I am traveling or trying to swing my 600 around in the car and drive so I don't get eaten. The 100-400 is way better.

So focus on function more than iq is my advice. If you need long, buy the 600v2. I you are constantly struggling with low light, get the 200-400 or 600.

Otherwise stick with the 100-400 v2. The iq differences are not the important thing.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=972&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=1&LensComp=764&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=2



Jul 20, 2015 at 01:15 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Big Whites ...


ben egbert wrote:
Hand holding a long lens is not really hard.


Speaking for yourself, of course. Whether or not it is not really hard depends on a number of factors. And anyone that has no trouble handholding a 500 f4 has even less trouble handholding and maneuvering a 100-400.




Jul 20, 2015 at 01:36 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Big Whites ...


For anyone shooting wildlife, I would not recommend a 5DS/R, when there is a good possibility that the 1DX relacement may be a hybrid of the two.


Jul 20, 2015 at 01:40 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Big Whites ...


Imagemaster wrote:
Speaking for yourself, of course. Whether or not it is not really hard depends on a number of factors. And anyone that has no trouble handholding a 500 f4 has even less trouble handholding and maneuvering a 100-400.



My point was its not the shake as most people assume. Of course I always shot one of two ways. I used a tripod and Sidekick when I could or hand held when that was not possible. But in most cases for non static subjects, I need such a fast shutter speed to stop motion, that hand jitter was irrelevant.

My arms got tired of course, but you only have the camera lens up for a few seconds. The tripod or monopod were a good way to support the camera for long periods in a stand.

I had a hard time learning the reverse motion for gimbal set ups so I often took the camera off when birds were flying because I could acquire the bird faster that way.

The 100-400 is easier to carry of course, so if weight is an issue the lighter lens may be a better choice.

I have the 100-400 v2, and no longer have my 500f4. But if I had both, the 500F4 would be my choice for an eagle picking up a fish or a red wing black bird in a marsh. And the 600+1.4x would probably be better.

For me, I am not good enough and don't have the bird population to justify the cost of a 500F4 or any other big white. I know that the 100-400 v2 will produce some very nice wildlife images under the right conditions.

I am extremely glad for the years of great bird photography I got from the 500F4, but in the end, better photographers could get better shots with smaller cheaper lenses. It was all about stalking skills, finding birds and hand eye coordination.





Jul 20, 2015 at 01:52 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Big Whites ...


jcolwell wrote:
Give it up Kent! You're in denial if you don't admit that you really want a 500/4 L IS. Either before or after a 5DS/R. You only have to set your priorities, and then make your move.




Actually, the new 200/2 IS is on the theoretical "save your pennies" wish list also as a "Big White for low light".



Jul 20, 2015 at 02:56 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Big Whites ...


Imagemaster wrote:
For anyone shooting wildlife, I would not recommend a 5DS/R, when there is a good possibility that the 1DX relacement may be a hybrid of the two.


and a good chance that when the 1DX drops in price, I may update my cameras.

I just paid for a shutter replacement in my 1DIV today- made the call to keep it in service.



Jul 20, 2015 at 03:06 PM
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