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Archive 2015 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?

  
 
Dpedraza
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


I saw this while on fb earlier found it to be interesting.


http://photorumors.com/2015/06/26/pentax-rep-the-new-full-frame-pentax-dslr-camera-will-have-a-42mp-sensor-from-sony/



Jun 26, 2015 at 03:53 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


On one hand it would be a big "Thanks for sticking with us" to the loyal and those looking for a reason to return. On the other, I have to wonder if that wouldn't push the timeline back. I thought Sony wanted the 42 all to themselves for a few months post a7rII release.


Jun 26, 2015 at 05:16 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


I would be surprised, unless it's feasible to produced a lower end/stripped 42MP sensor alongside the one coming for the a7RII. I have no idea if that's even realistically possible.

Or maybe Sony doesn't see the Pentax K system as a serious threat and the new camera could follow shortly after the a7RII?

My feeling, if I was coming into the market with a pretty clean slate, looking for a 36+MP FF system, is that Pentax would be at the end of the list primarily due to the somewhat limited lens options. Their current offerings aren't as extensive as Canon and Nikon and adapting the most possible alt/vintage glass is Sony's strength, as well as electronic support for many Canon EF lenses. Canon EF also allows more alt lens options, including Pentax K, IIRC. I'm not saying Pentax's system is not good. Rather, from my perspective as a non-Pentax enthusiast, it's the least compelling of the bunch. That might change if the new FF camera is actually mirrorless and uses a new 'K' mount with a shorter flange distance. Probably doubtful considering the new 70-200 and the other zoom are standard K mount...



Jun 26, 2015 at 05:39 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


In the past, Sony's sensor division was willing to sell to anyone regardless of what Sony was doing with their cameras from a competitive standpoint. They were treated as completely different businesses. I don't know if that has changed but it is probably worth noting that Ricoh was one of the first - if not the first - to come to market with the Sony 51.4MP 43.8 x 32.8 mm sensor in the 645Z. I fully expected the new FF Pentax to use the Sony 36MP sensor but I guess it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Ricoh secured the new 42MP BSI Sony sensor.

Whether 36 or 42MP's, the FF Pentax will likely be my next body. If the rumor is true about Ricoh opening up their own service center in the U.S., that's just one more reason I would go with them. The huge reason for me though comes down to IQ as Ricoh/ Pentax is typically able to get better results out of Sony sensors than pretty much anyone else imo, including Sony. I'm not typical though as I only really use three lenses and currently they are either Pentax K or adaptable to Pentax K.



Jun 26, 2015 at 08:10 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


freaklikeme wrote:
On one hand it would be a big "Thanks for sticking with us" to the loyal and those looking for a reason to return. On the other, I have to wonder if that wouldn't push the timeline back. I thought Sony wanted the 42 all to themselves for a few months post a7rII release.


If Pentax actually uses the 42MP BSI Sony sensor, Sony would still have it exclusively for a few months as the Pentax is not scheduled for release until late October/November. The A7rII is out in August I think?...but I doubt it will happen nonetheless. As I read elsewhere, the Sony 42MP BSI is about video, maybe even more-so than any benefit for stills over the current FF 36MP sensor. Since when has Ricoh/ Pentax cared about video in a serious way?



Jun 26, 2015 at 08:14 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


If it's true, I will just regret selling my delicious Pentax Limited lenses a while back. If there's one brand that knows how to focus on a good interface, it's Pentax.


Jun 26, 2015 at 08:47 PM
taran
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
In the past, Sony's sensor division was willing to sell to anyone regardless of what Sony was doing with their cameras from a competitive standpoint.


Perhaps I am crazy, but this hasn't been true for years.

Who has access to the 20 or 24 mpix APS-c sensors? Nobody. Nex 7 is out 4 years now. Who has access to Phase detect full frame sensors? Nobody. Almost 2 years old.

Sony sells a 1" consumer part to its competitors like canon, panasonic... well, the new rx100m4 stacked color chip gives them at least a year on the competition again, because they knew it was coming.

The last Sony camera with a Sony chip to have feature parity with a 3rd party image processing system was Sony A900, a camera released in 2008, before Sony really dug in its heels and dropped prices so much they pretty much drove every other sensor maker out of the market. One could argue that the 36mpix chip of D800 was contemporaneous with the Sony A7r, but Sony wouldn't launch that camera for another year, and when they did, the price was drastically lower than D800.

Sony is playing a very shrewd game. The sensors from Ricoh GR, Leica T, Coolpix A, Fuji X, D610/750/810 and even olympus m43 are all so old Sony can make them for peanuts, yet those are current models.

The sensor technology from a6000 and A7s/rii is, imho, many years advanced from all those manufacturers I just mentioned.



Jun 26, 2015 at 09:25 PM
curious80
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


This rumor is from someone who heard a Tamron rep talk about this on a local camera store. Not credible at all.


Jun 26, 2015 at 09:46 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


taran wrote:
Perhaps I am crazy, but this hasn't been true for years.

Who has access to the 20 or 24 mpix APS-c sensors? Nobody.


Ricoh/Pentax? Pentax K3 and K3II now for the Sony 24MP APS-C sensor. The lower end Pentax KS 1 and now KS 2 use the Sony 20MP sensor. Maybe a few Nikons as well for the 24MP APS Sony sensor, I don't know for sure. I don't know if that makes you crazy.

Sony makes much more money selling sensors to other camera manufacturers than they do selling cameras. I doubt they would risk that very profitable business.



Jun 26, 2015 at 09:54 PM
curious80
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


taran wrote:
.... before Sony really dug in its heels and dropped prices so much they pretty much drove every other sensor maker out of the market. ....


Things actually seems to have gone in the opposite direction than what you are describing. Nikon who was previously entirely dependent on Sony for all its sensors is sourcing many of its sensors from else where. The 24MP sensors in Nikon D7200 and D5500 perform better than Sony 24MP sensor. Even Samsung has edged past Sony with its 28MP APS-C sensor which performs better than Sony 24MP. Nikon's best high-ISO sensor used in their top-professional body D4s is also not from Sony. So from the looks of it, Sony is actually losing its monopoly on the sensor market.




Jun 26, 2015 at 10:06 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
If Pentax actually uses the 42MP BSI Sony sensor, Sony would still have it exclusively for a few months as the Pentax is not scheduled for release until late October/November. The A7rII is out in August I think?...but I doubt it will happen nonetheless. As I read elsewhere, the Sony 42MP BSI is about video, maybe even more-so than any benefit for stills over the current FF 36MP sensor. Since when has Ricoh/ Pentax cared about video in a serious way?


I hadn't heard that about the 42 sensor (haven't been keeping up), but, if that's the case, then hopefully it will be the 36. Pentax users deserve some love.



Jun 26, 2015 at 10:10 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


freaklikeme wrote:
I hadn't heard that about the 42 sensor (haven't been keeping up), but, if that's the case, then hopefully it will be the 36. Pentax users deserve some love.


The BSI tech offers faster readout speeds which allow for higher frame rates and full-pixel readout of 4K video. There might be some benefit for stills (and it should in no case be worse than the 36MP FF sensor) but from what I have read, video use will see the biggest gain/ benefit from the faster sensor.




Jun 26, 2015 at 10:36 PM
f.hayek
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


All fine & good but Ricoh has quite the task of creating a set of proper optics to go with this sensor. Aside from old legacy glass, the most modern FF Pentax lenses are a few Voigtländer SLI lenses from the early naughts and the original Zeiss T* ZK's.

This may slow down the introduction by some time, affording Sony exclusive use of the new sensor for a decent stretch.



Jun 26, 2015 at 10:42 PM
philber
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Interesting that no-one has mentioned sensor cost. It stands to reason that the 36 Mp sensor would be substantially cheaper than the new one. Pentax must take that into consideration before they decide which one to use, assuming they had a choice. Are they in the market at a premium price? Considering where they are coming from, that would be suprising...



Jun 27, 2015 at 02:52 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


philber wrote:
Interesting that no-one has mentioned sensor cost. It stands to reason that the 36 Mp sensor would be substantially cheaper than the new one. Pentax must take that into consideration before they decide which one to use, assuming they had a choice. Are they in the market at a premium price? Considering where they are coming from, that would be suprising...


I don't think Ricoh will end up using the 42MP BSI sensor in the new FF Pentax but typically they tend to use a sensor over a long period of time and with many models so that initial cost is quite spread out and probably not that much of a determent. I suppose it might come down to their plans for other models over then next few years (whether they see a major reason to go with the 42MP BSI for other planned, future products, etc. then they might buy them all now for a better volume price).




Jun 27, 2015 at 05:12 PM
f.hayek
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think Ricoh will end up using the 42MP BSI sensor in the new FF Pentax but typically they tend to use a sensor over a long period of time and with many models so that initial cost is quite spread out and probably not that much of a determent. I suppose it might come down to their plans for other models over then next few years (whether they see a major reason to go with the 42MP BSI for other planned, future products, etc. then they might buy them all now for a better volume price).



The Sony 36MP sensor was released in November 2013.
Assuming a FF Pentax release date in Q4 2015 or Q1 2016, it would seem unlikely that Ricoh would opt for a 2+ year old sensor for their initial entry into 35mm FF. Anyone buying into Pentax FF is also knowingly buying into a whole new set of glass. The cost differential to this sort of buyer, of a 36 vs 42 MP newer-generation sensor would not be the deal-breaker.

Just saying'....



Jun 28, 2015 at 08:28 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


f.hayek wrote:
The Sony 36MP sensor was released in November 2013.
Assuming a FF Pentax release date in Q4 2015 or Q1 2016, it would seem unlikely that Ricoh would opt for a 2+ year old sensor for their initial entry into 35mm FF. Anyone buying into Pentax FF is also knowingly buying into a whole new set of glass. The cost differential to this sort of buyer, of a 36 vs 42 MP newer-generation sensor would not be the deal-breaker.

Just saying'....


It will be interesting to see what Ricoh ends up doing. The difference between 36 and 42MP's would not sway me for instance and in fact I have even seen many Pentax users express a desire for just 24MP's (which would not get it for me). Most folks who have been waiting for the new Pentax FF likely are already set with glass imo. There are exceptional options in certain ranges that are not really that old/ or are more than capable of fully taking advantage of a 36/42MP sensor. For instance, the 31Ltd was released in 2001 and it is the best 28/35 I have tested thus far on the A7r. The Pentax Macros are also exceptional. The last one was updated in late 2009 (100 Macro WR). Folks new to Pentax may want new zooms like the upcoming 70 - 200mm 2.8 or maybe the recently released 150 - 450 (or the "to-be-released" fast wide zoom) but these will almost certainly be available upon release of the FF Pentax.

I don't think Ricoh/ Pentax is facing anything close to what Sony was with the FF FE mount upon release and it's not like they don't have a huge Pentax treasure trove of lens patents to draw upon. The fact that there has not been a FF digital Pentax until now means that there is huge pent up demand out there. I don't think a "whole new set of glass" is what most of the buyers think they need in order to buy a Pentax FF. I'm sure Ricoh will release new lenses to entice new users to the system but there is also a ton of great, classic Petnax lenses out there just waiting to be used on this body.



Jun 28, 2015 at 09:14 AM
f.hayek
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
...but there is also a ton of great, classic Petnax lenses out there just waiting to be used on this body.


...capable of resolving for a 36 or 42MP sensor? We all saw lots of old Nikkors (MF & AF) rendered inadequate when the D800 came out (think of the corner smear of the first version 70-200/2.8). I'm simply curious as to how many existing AF Pentax lenses are capable of generating the appropriate-sized image circle for a FF sensor with sharp, clean edges?



Jun 28, 2015 at 09:31 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


f.hayek wrote:
...capable of resolving for a 36 or 42MP sensor? You see what happened to lots of old Nikkors when the D800 came out (think of the corner smear of the first version 70-200/2.8). I'm simply curious as to how many existing Pentax lenses are capable of generating the appropriate-sized image circle for a FF sensor with sharp, clean edges?


Yes, imo. I'm sure it will depend on which focal length and speed you are after but in the most common FL's between say 28 - 300mm's, I think there are good options. The 24mm FL has been a weak spot (though I guess one could pick up a used Zeiss ZK 25/2.8), there are good 20mm's options though. The widest end is probably the weakest but that should be taken care of by an upcoming fast, wide zoom. The upcoming Pentax 70-200/2.8 is of course entirely new and I believe it was recently delayed to make it even better (delayed until the Fall which would coincide with the FF camera release).




Jun 28, 2015 at 09:49 AM
f.hayek
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Pentax ff with 42mp Sony sensor?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yes, imo. I'm sure it will depend on which focal length and speed you are after but in the most common FL's between say 28 - 300mm's, I think there are good options. The 24mm FL has been a weak spot (though I guess one could pick up a used Zeiss ZK 25/2.8), there are good 20mm's options though. The widest end is probably the weakest but that should be taken care of by an upcoming fast, wide zoom. The upcoming Pentax 70-200/2.8 is of course entirely new and I believe it was recently delayed to make it even
...Show more

I guess time will tell.
There were many disappointing surprises once Nikon kicked up to 36MP, as I'm sure Canonistas will discover with the 5DS-R.



Jun 28, 2015 at 10:03 AM
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