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Archive 2015 · Leica Q: First impressions.

  
 
airfrogusmc
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p.17 #1 · p.17 #1 · Leica Q: First impressions.


I think having really good DoF scales is a real plus. And it feels really good in the hand.


Jun 30, 2015 at 02:46 PM
Arka
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p.17 #2 · p.17 #2 · Leica Q: First impressions.


uhoh7 wrote:
For me at this stage, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the images.

The Q is not at M level for 28mm, but it does not pretend to be (and nothing else is), and has lots of other features which the M does not, AF being the most huge, with CF not far behind. I'm not sure why one needs IS for a 28, but it has that too

Nico and others show the thing shoots pretty darn well, and even more important, the camera is a total hit. It's paid for itself in terms of publicity alone.
...Show more

AF is interesting, but I really like the closer minimum focus distance. M lenses require 0.7m between the front element and the subject (a few third-party optics can focus closer if you use live view). That's not great for photographing my daughter, who will crawl right up to me while I take pictures of her so she can chimp (a budding narcissist). The RX-1 has solved the close-focus problem, but the MF implementation isn't as good as the Leica, and the AF is just dreadful. Hence, the Leica Q seems like the ideal RX-1 replacement for that purpose. And moreover, the IQ is so close to M-quality that I barely even notice the differences in the few sample images I took at the local Leica store.

I also really like the fact that the focus peaking works while in video mode. I am very disappointed, however, that there is no manual exposure control in video mode. Maybe that's something that can be added in firmware?



Jun 30, 2015 at 03:48 PM
nicoimages
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p.17 #3 · p.17 #3 · Leica Q: First impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
It would be interesting to get Nicholas's thoughts on what the Q gives him over the GR (and anyone else who bought a Q).


Hello Ron - very good question. The Ricoh GR is a fantastic camera and I am a big fan. I have no plans to retire it.

The Leica Q and Ricoh GR are very different cameras despite both having 28mm or 28mm equiv lenses.

I will continue using the Ricoh when I want to travel light and it will be the camera that I have always with the me. I wish that it had been revised with a 24Mp sensor and I would have probably not bothered with the Leica Q.

The Leica Q has an EVF, a sensor with better dynamic range and noise characteristics and fantastic ergonomics particularly with the added grip. Because of the Full Frame sensor and 28mm f1.7 lens it is easier to achieve a different "look" to the images exploiting the shallow DOF and the fact that the lens is very sharp even wide open. It also helps that it has slightly higher resolution as I regularly correct verticals in Photoshop. It is a lot bigger though.

Hope this helps

Thanks

Nicholas








Jun 30, 2015 at 04:04 PM
rscheffler
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p.17 #4 · p.17 #4 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Thanks for the quick reply, Nicholas!

I can see where the size of the GR is advantageous. Do you find yourself preferring the Q over the M? Why not carry around an M with a 28 mounted? I guess the Q is a bit smaller and lighter, closer focusing, AF and built-in EVF...



Jun 30, 2015 at 05:26 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.17 #5 · p.17 #5 · Leica Q: First impressions.


airfrogusmc wrote:
I think having really good DoF scales is a real plus. And it feels really good in the hand.


I'm not sure I follow the "really good" part. One of the criticisms of the Q seems to be that there are inadequate distance markings. You only get 3ft, 6ft and infinity. That's really not great for zone focusing and on say a Leica M 28mm Summilux you get a much more useful 3, 4, 5, 8, 15 feet and infinity (and even finer metric markings). This is probably a Panasonic error given how good Leica is traditionally with their lens markings (as zone focusing is such a big part of the Leica tradition).




Jun 30, 2015 at 05:52 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.17 #6 · p.17 #6 · Leica Q: First impressions.


A lot better and more useful than the Sony fixed lens option.




Jun 30, 2015 at 08:19 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.17 #7 · p.17 #7 · Leica Q: First impressions.


airfrogusmc wrote:
A lot better and more useful than the Sony fixed lens option.



Ha! So "really good" in the sense that it has a dof scale. Gotcha. For someone who makes use of a dof scale for zone focusing though, it's not really good.




Jun 30, 2015 at 08:38 PM
serhan_
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p.17 #8 · p.17 #8 · Leica Q: First impressions.


lesnumeriques.com: Meet the designers of the Leica Q

Peter Kruschewski responds: "No, it is neither a Sony sensor (as in X) or a CMOSIS / STMicro sensor (like the M). For now, we prefer to keep this information confidential, but all we can say is that it is a sensor developed exclusively for us by our industry partner and therefore find that in our products. [...] And, no, there's no antialiasing filter . " Continuing the poker game, we will learn that at one point, Leica and Samsung have been a time for discussion, but it quickly turned sour because of too different mindset. Our opinion is that there is behind that of the Panasonic CMOS 24x36 mm, especially knowing that the technology partnership between the two companies was further strengthened during the Photokina 2014. But unless unmount a Q, it may be difficult to confirm ...



Jun 30, 2015 at 09:09 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.17 #9 · p.17 #9 · Leica Q: First impressions.


serhan_ wrote:
lesnumeriques.com: Meet the designers of the Leica Q



If it turns out to be a Panasonic sensor, that would really be interesting...not only for Leica but for the rest of the industry as well. I seem to recall reading though that, while it's not CMOSIS, it was a European company. hmm.




Jun 30, 2015 at 09:13 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.17 #10 · p.17 #10 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Ha! So "really good" in the sense that it has a dof scale. Gotcha. For someone who makes use of a dof scale for zone focusing though, it's not really good.



A 28mm lens at f11 what everything from about 5 ft to infinity will be in focus and again it's a lot better than the other fixed lens alternatives and most all of the auto focus lenses.
Good enough that I can effectively use it.

Edited on Jun 30, 2015 at 10:35 PM · View previous versions



Jun 30, 2015 at 09:50 PM
sirimiri
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p.17 #11 · p.17 #11 · Leica Q: First impressions.


It's like travelling back in time...why wait, when you can pay a private party 30% more to have it now?
Or 16% if they actually paid tax..

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/pho/5099419581.html

Leica Q New in Box - $5500 (Silver Lake)

Bought from Leica directly. New unopened box. Be one of the first to get the Leica Q with no waiting.

Face to face transactions only. I will not ship, or respond to any offers to ship or exchange. Price is firm. You'll be getting mine, and I'll be waiting for another one. I will be green with envy of you.




Jun 30, 2015 at 10:18 PM
nicoimages
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p.17 #12 · p.17 #12 · Leica Q: First impressions.


rscheffler wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply, Nicholas!

I can see where the size of the GR is advantageous. Do you find yourself preferring the Q over the M? Why not carry around an M with a 28 mounted? I guess the Q is a bit smaller and lighter, closer focusing, AF and built-in EVF...


Hello Ron - I was initially looking into selling my Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH as I was after a wider aperture lens that was sharp wide open that I could use in low light situations and to occasionally exploit the shallower DOF.

The Summilux was very tempting but a bit too big for me in terms of weight which then left the 28/2 Summicron as my next option.

The M240 is a great camera but the EVF can be a bit frustrating to use at times and the 0.7m minimum focusing distance can be restrictive occasionally.

The Q has effectively given me a second camera body with a great lens which despite the software correction is performing better at wide apertures than the Elmarit ASPH, a great EVF, much better ergonomics, very good DNG file quality and it is lighter too. As 70% of my images are taken at 28mm the one lens restriction is not too much of an issue for me.

P.S the optical image stabilization has been a real bonus - don't have to crank up the ISO too much and still can get away with 1/15 handheld when photographing static objects





Jul 01, 2015 at 07:48 AM
adamdewilde
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p.17 #13 · p.17 #13 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Ha! So "really good" in the sense that it has a dof scale. Gotcha. For someone who makes use of a dof scale for zone focusing though, it's not really good.



I didn't have any problems with zone focusing the Q this whole trip. I also don't have problems with using it in AF mode. I walked around HK and used it with face detect and it worked perfectly shooting from the hip. In fact, FD AF is a far better option then zone focusing.



Jul 02, 2015 at 01:34 PM
adamdewilde
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p.17 #14 · p.17 #14 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Hi guys,

Sorry that I wasn't active. I was in HK all week. I brought my Q, and I also had a M-P 21Lux, 50Lux, 90APO.
I used the 21Lux once on a walk to Starbucks and back to the apt. Although I feel there is an IQ advantage to having the M-P + "insert good M lens here" I still feel the Q is a fantastic travel cam. Especially in a densely populated city. Honestly, I'm super happy with the out of camera JPG files and didn't feel like I missed out on anything not using the M. It might have been nice to have a tele, but in HK, the 28 seems to be king



Jul 02, 2015 at 01:41 PM
rattymouse
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p.17 #15 · p.17 #15 · Leica Q: First impressions.


adamdewilde wrote:
Hi guys,

Sorry that I wasn't active. I was in HK all week. I brought my Q, and I also had a M-P 21Lux, 50Lux, 90APO.
I used the 21Lux once on a walk to Starbucks and back to the apt. Although I feel there is an IQ advantage to having the M-P + "insert good M lens here" I still feel the Q is a fantastic travel cam. Especially in a densely populated city. Honestly, I'm super happy with the out of camera JPG files and didn't feel like I missed out on anything not using the M. It might
...Show more

Best city in the world. Looking forward to seeing your pics.



Jul 02, 2015 at 02:20 PM
Audii-Dudii
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p.17 #16 · p.17 #16 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Arka wrote:
The RX-1 has solved the close-focus problem, but the MF implementation isn't as good as the Leica, and the AF is just dreadful


Have you tried manually focusing your RX1 using the macro ring instead of the focus ring? If not, do so ... you might be surprised at how well this method works and with (so far as I can tell) no compromise in IQ, either!



Jul 02, 2015 at 06:14 PM
ebookman
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p.17 #17 · p.17 #17 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Hi guys,

I have not seen a Q, so I am just reading the specs like others. I am surprised it is so large and so heavy. Everybody keeps comparing it to the RX1 without an EVF but it is not that different in size and weight from an A7 or A7r which have an EVF and can be used with any great 28mm Leica or Zeiss lens as well as your other lenses. What is the advantage of the fixed lens at this size and weight? This is not a pocket camera. I had an RX1 and loved it but when I got an A7r and put them side by side I couldn’t see its advantage any longer. I feel like I am missing something here.



Jul 04, 2015 at 05:46 PM
rscheffler
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p.17 #18 · p.17 #18 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Dale, it's probably a matter of trying one to see how it might fit your needs and preferences. Earlier in this thread I asked Nicholas a similar question - why he would prefer the Q over his M240 and 28mm lens. The overall package does have some desirable features, such as very good and fast AF, very close focus ability, fast lens, very sharp (despite software distortion correction) and extremely competitive EVF. I would also consider the Q's interface design to be superior to most other cameras on the market, but of course this is subjective.

It's probably most logical when compared within the Leica product line. An M240 and 28 Lux will be heavier, and the lens is likely somewhat larger (I haven't compared the specs), never mind cost 3x more. I'd imagine it could have been a lot more compact if the lens was f/2.8. See the tiny MS Optical 28mm lens for Leica M as an example (though not necessarily the greatest optical quality). But then the slowness of the lens would be criticized for what would certainly still be a high price. A fast lens will always be larger and more complex, which immediately eliminates the possibility of being pocketable. If it can't be pocketable, then there's no point in making the body as small as possible if it compromises usability.

The size of the Q, IMO, was intended to closely follow that of the M, as was its overall design and interface. As an M user, I would probably find it an easy addition to shooting alongside an M (other than the odd 1/3 stop aperture and full stop shutter increments that do not pair well with the M). I also find the M cameras to be a good compromise between simplicity, ease and comfort of use while being compact enough without compromising too much. Since you mentioned the a7 and RX1, IMO, those are designs intent on achieving the smallest size possible, yet sacrifice comfortable and efficient interface design.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Q acts as a technology testbed. Leica can introduce features such as an integrated EVF and AF in a 'serious' camera before messing around with the M system. It lets them prove they can implement new features effectively and gather feedback that can be applied to future cameras, such as the M system. A potential problem with putting these features straight into an M is the backlash they'll get from many traditional M owners. The Q may be effective at softening resistance by showing it can be done well without necessarily weakening other core Leica features.



Jul 04, 2015 at 09:27 PM
uhoh7
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p.17 #19 · p.17 #19 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Arka wrote:
AF is interesting, but I really like the closer minimum focus distance. M lenses require 0.7m between the front element and the subject (a few third-party optics can focus closer if you use live view). That's not great for photographing my daughter, who will crawl right up to me while I take pictures of her so she can chimp (a budding narcissist). The RX-1 has solved the close-focus problem, but the MF implementation isn't as good as the Leica, and the AF is just dreadful. Hence, the Leica Q seems like the ideal RX-1 replacement for that purpose. And moreover,
...Show more

Good points.

CF is the achilles heel of M glass, at least on my M9. The 75 Lux will get pretty close in effect, though, and I wish my other lenses could follow suit.....but not that often. If I really need it, I grab the A7.mod, which has turned into a very useful and often used second body for me.

Kids love to chimp, and I often use it to get them into an expressive mood.

I think your points about RX1 horrible MF and AF speak a bit to Dale's wonderment as to what makes the machine attractive to many. I'm also astonished at the jubilant reception, after basically ever modern Leica has been widely trashed at introduction, with the exception of the M240, which simply was unavailable for a very long time.

As you know the M8 and M9 generated plenty of hate early on.

Dale seems to think the camera is the same size as the A7...well he also feels the Rx1 is too...now that is surprising. The A7 is near identical footprint to M9, but the EVF hump does make it harder to get in my tight bags. Before I modded the camera, the serious lens choices pushed the A7 way over the M9, except the nice little 35.

But now even Guy at DPI has sold his 16-35 in favor of the CV 15 v3 and coming Batis 25. Jeez finally. Yet at the same time the body is getting bigger and heavier like the 240.

Whatever the Q lacks, it does offer a GUI which Sony executives should all be forced to memorize, and as you note, in the right hands and situations it can make very strong images. I can never keep track of which fuji everyone loves the most, but I think Leica noticed. The EVF is apparently the best in the world, which is not saying much really . Is no one else driven crazy with the noise on mag with the A7?

Lurking in the background is Sony's new monster, A7r2, video driven, but that backlit sensor may inadvertently do the right thing with M glass. I guess we should not be surprised since the Nex popularity with legacy folks was apparently a total surprise to them. They just took the fanfare, and ignored what was behind it, and still do today.

Maybe the great Sony trauma is what the 5D did to their video business, and now they want to get even.




Jul 04, 2015 at 10:10 PM
adamdewilde
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p.17 #20 · p.17 #20 · Leica Q: First impressions.


Just shot a wedding with the Q (not only with the Q, but I took a lot more shots with it then I thought I would).

Few points:

1) AF is fantastic, never missed a beat. I've had a harder time with a 1Dx or D4. To be fair, who knows if this awesome AF will translate to say a tele lens.

2) If they made a 75mm version of the Q, I wouldn't need anything else. Well, I'd probably need a few more strobes (see below point).

3) FLASH SUCKS really bad.. Leica is way behind everyone else. Sure you can say it's not meant to be used with flash.. But I had to setup B1 strobes all over the place to be able to use my M and Q in the ballroom (ideally I would use a Canon/Nikon here, and usually I do, but the Q inspired me enough not to).

4) Will probably stick with 35FLE 75APO for outdoor weddings.. But I wouldn't hesitate to use the Q as a backup camera to the M-P240 cameras that I own (I have to many, I can sell a few with the Q around).


Photos will come eventually.. I'm slammed this coming week though.




Jul 05, 2015 at 02:34 AM
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