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Archive 2015 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII

  
 
Jeff Nolten
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p.35 #1 · p.35 #1 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


RustyBug wrote @ Chez:
@ shifting from A7R + 5D II to A7R II (retaining your 7D, I assume).


Ok, if you guys are so hung up on the minutia of ultimateness, why would you still use a 7D Of all the Canon cameras I've used that one was the worst in terms of noise and pixel quality. I sold mine to B&H because it worked as advertised but I would only want a disinterested profit margin based corporation to deal with it. My other old bodies I've given to family and friends because they still had life in them.

I know this is OT but in this thread what does that matter? I know you can get decent images from a 7D at least occasionally but in this thread its about the most exalted all the time pushing DR 9 stops. Really, if you would even hold your nose to use a 7D why are you discussing the difference between a Sony whatever and a Canon whatever.

BTW, this thread adds pages faster than most add posts.



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:09 PM
RustyBug
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p.35 #2 · p.35 #2 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Jeff,

I only mentioned the 7D because Chez has historically indicated he is a big fan of his (favoring the 7D over the 7D II) 7D for that segment of his craft (and would incur no additional capital investment @ upgrade if he is satisfied with it). The additional inference being that I do actually try to "listen" to what Chez says (even when of opposing perspectives).



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:29 PM
Gunzorro
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p.35 #3 · p.35 #3 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Sneakyracer wrote:
Even if money is not an object deciding on a camera is not that easy. What usually happens to those, that have a lot of money to spend, is that they buy several camera systems and most likely always keep more than one.


Even those without a lot of money find ways to get the system(s) they need and want. I love nice camera gear, but it really gets down to the piece of gear between one's ears. Now, that's brand loyalty we should all embrace!



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:42 PM
chez
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p.35 #4 · p.35 #4 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


RustyBug wrote:
Chez,

Yes, you have been very consistent in advocating the price is more than you feel it is worth. To that point, I will whole-heartedly stand behind you as being totally consistent and I respect that position of waiting for the price to come down for personal budgetary reasons.

My humor was just to highlight that if someone were to accept the plethora of impassioned voracity of alleged greatness that is perpetuated regarding the A7R II in the Canon Forum (noting that it receives mixed comments in the Sony forum) ... it would stand to reason that it would be such a
...Show more

Rusty, believe you me, I've given it a lot of thought in selling both the 5d2 and A7R and buying the A7r2, but in doing so I still have to shell out $1,000 which I'm not prepared to do. My logic is the 5d2 has slowed it's price descend and so has the A7r...but the A7r2 hasn't even started. I am not in a big rush as the A7R has great image quality at base ISO which I typically shoot at, and in the near future my photo trips will all be landscape so I don't need any of the AF or IBIS of the A7R2. Now next year I'll be trekking through SE Asia for a few months...this is where I'd love to take the A7R2. I'm counting on the price coming down after the initial rush.

As far as beer goes, I only drink micro brews...being spoiled by all the great pubs in Portland.



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:48 PM
Shield
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p.35 #5 · p.35 #5 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


chez wrote:
I've given it a lot of thought in selling both the 5d2 and A7R and buying the A7r2


I am but a casual member of the FM boards and I must have read this about 1000 times in the past 2 months. Just do it Chez! You know you want to.

I recently sold my 6d + a7s + 1dIV and bought a used 1dc. I do not regret this, but unlike retrofocus I like big and clunky. The 1d series is a man's camera made for man's hands.




Aug 31, 2015 at 08:53 PM
chez
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p.35 #6 · p.35 #6 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Shield wrote:
I am but a casual member of the FM boards and I must have read this about 1000 times in the past 2 months. Just do it Chez! You know you want to.

I recently sold my 6d + a7s + 1dIV and bought a used 1dc. I do not regret this, but unlike retrofocus I like big and clunky. The 1d series is a man's camera made for man's hands.



Well, I used to trek into the Rockies packing a Pentax 6x7 camera along with 3 lenses. If you think the 1dc is a man's camera...the Pentax is the Incredible Hulk p&s.

I'll call you and raise you a couple of pounds.



Aug 31, 2015 at 08:59 PM
Shield
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p.35 #7 · p.35 #7 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


chez wrote:
Well, I used to trek into the Rockies packing a Pentax 6x7 camera along with 3 lenses. If you think the 1dc is a man's camera...the Pentax is the Incredible Hulk p&s.

I'll call you and raise you a couple of pounds.


Last trip up a huge hill with bears that were spotted in my exact spot the day prior:
1dc, 16-28 2.8, 70-200, 150-600 Sigma C, and a Benro A373F Aluminum Video Tripod & S8 Head (11 lbs).

Your call sir.



Aug 31, 2015 at 09:12 PM
chez
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p.35 #8 · p.35 #8 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Shield wrote:
Last trip up a huge hill with bears that were spotted in my exact spot the day prior:
1dc, 16-28 2.8, 70-200, 150-600 Sigma C, and a Benro A373F Aluminum Video Tripod & S8 Head (11 lbs).

Your call sir.


Yeh...but I had to walk uphill both ways !



Aug 31, 2015 at 09:19 PM
retrofocus
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p.35 #9 · p.35 #9 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Shield wrote:
I am but a casual member of the FM boards and I must have read this about 1000 times in the past 2 months. Just do it Chez! You know you want to.

I recently sold my 6d + a7s + 1dIV and bought a used 1dc. I do not regret this, but unlike retrofocus I like big and clunky. The 1d series is a man's camera made for man's hands.



Nothing against your personal preference.....funny that you judge me without knowing me at all. My hands are pretty big, I am not of small statue either....and prefer smaller camera bodies. I did not even once had an ergonomic issue with the A7R.



Aug 31, 2015 at 09:20 PM
Shield
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p.35 #10 · p.35 #10 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Chez - here was the view @ 24mm. I circled an area in MSPAINT (high tech!) to show you what 600mm + 4k scaled down to 1920x1080 will get you - there was a boat on the water...

What is that equivalent focal length anyway?
600 x 1.3 (4k on the 1dc) x 4 = 3120 mm equivalent FL.

Actually I'll throw the video up on Youtube...





https://youtu.be/xcCbxDDyRzc






Edited on Aug 31, 2015 at 09:44 PM · View previous versions



Aug 31, 2015 at 09:22 PM
EB-1
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p.35 #11 · p.35 #11 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


RustyBug wrote:
Jeff,

I only mentioned the 7D because Chez has historically indicated he is a big fan of his (favoring the 7D over the 7D II) 7D for that segment of his craft (and would incur no additional capital investment @ upgrade if he is satisfied with it). The additional inference being that I do actually try to "listen" to what Chez says (even when of opposing perspectives).


7D was pretty bad to begin with, though the 50D it replaced was worse.
For me the EF-S Canon bodies were always what one used when there was not enough reach with a larger sensor, not for primary use and high IQ.

EBH



Aug 31, 2015 at 09:29 PM
alundeb
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p.35 #12 · p.35 #12 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


chez wrote:
It's painfully obvious the Canon forum is not where you can discuss anything else other than praises for Canon equipment. Really a shame as it was once a great forum with many knowledgeable people all willing to share their experiences. Many of these people have left...I can see why.


I agree to some extent. This time around, I called retro out on the "Great, but too little, too late, and too expensive" regarding the 5DS. He makes it sound like that is a Canon game alone, and other manufacturers give customers what they want. Regarding preferences, I felt at announcement time that the A7rII is too little, too late, in terms of resolution and weight savings compared to the 5DS, and too expensive. Now it turns out that the A7rII is no further improvement over the A7r in low ISO DR, low ISO latitude either, and the SNR improvement is as expected the modest 1/3 stop. Long exposure noise is worse. The IBIS is only good for 2 stops, not 4.5 as advertised, and AF does not work with the Canon lenses I would use it with, long end of long zooms. And in the end, some of the Exmor fans ( including me ) show by their actions that the A7rII is too little, too late even for them (us). The A7r still has a life. I guess my point is well made now and I will try not to contribute more in a negative way than I already did.



Sep 01, 2015 at 12:28 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.35 #13 · p.35 #13 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


RustyBug wrote:
I only mentioned the 7D because ...


Its ok. I only mentioned the 7D because it was Canon's first high pixel density camera (that I experienced) and it didn't work so well for me. It took some lovely images when everything worked but wasn't reliable enough in my hands at 400 mm. It is a reality check that has me being cautious about the 7D2 or 5DS.

And to make fun of the angst thats so free flowing here. Driven to that every few days.



Sep 01, 2015 at 12:45 AM
retrofocus
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p.35 #14 · p.35 #14 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


alundeb wrote:
I agree to some extent. This time around, I called retro out on the "Great, but too little, too late, and too expensive" regarding the 5DS. He makes it sound like that is a Canon game alone, and other manufacturers give customers what they want.


Maybe I misunderstand you, but my point above was that I see the 5Ds(R) as a good move of Canon but too late introduced with the technology it comes with (I know we disagree here, we discussed this). I never said that this was a "Canon game alone" and "other manufacturers give customers what they want". I said that with there are now other players in the high MP FF game which provide cameras with options which might be more suited for some users.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:21 AM
alundeb
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p.35 #15 · p.35 #15 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


retrofocus wrote 5 pages ago::
You forget here that the sensor in the A7R II is a totally different one than in the A7R even its resolution increase between 36 and 42 MP is not a lot. Canon's FF sensor technology remains pretty stagnant since the 5D MkII was released, no big changes here other than some improvement in high ISO (no hardware change but done with software algorithms). Even the 5Ds(R) finally has a great resolution, it relies on 7D MkII sensor technology simply doubling its resolution.

In fact the 5Ds(R) sensor easily could have been released 3 years ago. There
...Show more

It is between the lines here.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:32 AM
retrofocus
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p.35 #16 · p.35 #16 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


alundeb wrote:
It is between the lines here.


Not sure how this is connected to "He makes it sound like that is a Canon game alone, and other manufacturers give customers what they want." Otherwise I fully hold up to my opinion expressed in my former post cited above. Maybe you imply that in between the lines I am saying that people rather look out for new sensor technology plus other options provided in alternative high MP FF cameras. If you mean this, then I fully agree, I am convinced that this is the case.



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:38 AM
alundeb
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p.35 #17 · p.35 #17 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


I will let go and just disagree for now, but I really look forward to your comment the day Canon implements dual ISO readout and leapfrogs Exmor RS generation 6 low ISO DR with another stop, using the same old sensor technology from 2008.


Sep 01, 2015 at 06:44 AM
jctriguy
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p.35 #18 · p.35 #18 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


retrofocus wrote:
Not sure how this is connected to "He makes it sound like that is a Canon game alone, and other manufacturers give customers what they want." Otherwise I fully hold up to my opinion expressed in my former post cited above. Maybe you imply that in between the lines I am saying that people rather look out for new sensor technology plus other options provided in alternative high MP FF cameras. If you mean this, then I fully agree, I am convinced that this is the case.

In my view, your bias comes through in the way you write. You say the canon sensor is simply doubled, whereas the Sony sensor is clearly brand new and not merely a larger version from an existing sensor. The BSI exmor R was first available over 2 years ago in a 20MP rx100. Both the Canon and Sony are FF versions of an existing sensor, yet you paint it as one making huge steps and the other just doing something that they should've done 3 years ago. The 7Dii sensor wasn't available 3 years ago, so still not sure how you know that Canon could've easily released a FF version at that time. What is your reasoning for Sony releasing such a flawed initial a7r?



Sep 01, 2015 at 06:55 AM
retrofocus
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p.35 #19 · p.35 #19 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


jctriguy wrote:
In my view, your bias comes through in the way you write. You say the canon sensor is simply doubled, whereas the Sony sensor is clearly brand new and not merely a larger version from an existing sensor. The BSI exmor R was first available over 2 years ago in a 20MP rx100. Both the Canon and Sony are FF versions of an existing sensor, yet you paint it as one making huge steps and the other just doing something that they should've done 3 years ago. The 7Dii sensor wasn't available 3 years ago, so still not sure how
...Show more

Because the 7D MkII is not groundbreaking new technology either. It improved (again) in high ISO, same old game. Main improvement in this camera was - again - AF. There is no technical reason why Canon could not have used this technology to release a high MP FF body much earlier as competitive reply to the D800(E).

BTW, why don't you get a FF camera yourself? You are just an internet parrot with having no experience in FF digital yourself, especially not with any of the A7 series cameras which are discussed here.



Sep 01, 2015 at 07:13 AM
alundeb
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p.35 #20 · p.35 #20 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Double post. Deleted 1st.

Edited on Sep 01, 2015 at 07:26 AM · View previous versions



Sep 01, 2015 at 07:24 AM
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