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Archive 2015 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII

  
 
zlatko
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p.26 #1 · p.26 #1 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


popinvasion wrote:
Sony is killing it with these major improvements.


Sony isn't killing it with their system for the A7 series -
- missing 24-70/2.8 ... but who uses one of those anyway?;
- missing 70-200/2.8 ... ditto;
- missing 50/1.4 & 50/1.2;
- missing all primes over 90mm (100mm through 800mm);
- missing fisheye, T-S lenses, etc.
- 24-70/4 with crazy distortion of 3.84% barrel at 24 and 3% pin at 70, and costs $200 more than Canon's;
- 70-200/4 that weighs 80g more than Canon's, is bigger than Canon's, costs $300 more than Canon's; and despite the new A7 cameras having in-body stabilization, you still have to pay for the OSS;
- missing radio-control flash system;
- Zeiss isn't helping with the 85/1.8 Batis that costs 3X what Canon's 85/1.8 costs and has 12X as much distortion as Canon's.

Give Sony credit for a few excellent primes (35, 55, 90) and more lenses on the way. And, sure, you can make up for some of these major shortcomings by using Canon lenses, but then you've got to use an adapter, which places the lens out to ___________________ here, and you've got to believe the guy who says the AF is almost as good.

But the sensor is good.



Jun 18, 2015 at 10:04 PM
popinvasion
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p.26 #2 · p.26 #2 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


zlatko wrote:
Sony isn't killing it with their system for the A7 series -
- missing 24-70/2.8 ... but who uses one of those anyway?;
- missing 70-200/2.8 ... ditto;
- missing 50/1.4 & 50/1.2;
- missing all primes over 90mm (100mm through 800mm);
- missing fisheye, T-S lenses, etc.
- 24-70/4 with crazy distortion of 3.84% barrel at 24 and 3% pin at 70, and costs $200 more than Canon's;
- 70-200/4 that weighs 80g more than Canon's, is bigger than Canon's, costs $300 more than Canon's; and despite the new A7 cameras having in-body stabilization, you still have to pay for the OSS;
- missing radio-control
...Show more

I never said "system". If you want a better "system" with a better sensor made by Sony then Nikon is your guy. I shoot a little fuji, a little Sony, a little Nikon, a little canon and a touch panasonic. That's why I don't get offended by threads illustrating that my canons have inferior sensors. I used to be a "loyalist". I am happiest being brand agnostic. The best "system" imo contains a little sprinkling of it all.




Jun 18, 2015 at 10:08 PM
RustyBug
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p.26 #3 · p.26 #3 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Hey Bif ... did you happen to lose a protege during the tsunami



Jun 18, 2015 at 10:34 PM
Charlie N
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p.26 #4 · p.26 #4 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


zlatko wrote:
Sony isn't killing it with their system for the A7 series -
- missing 24-70/2.8 ... but who uses one of those anyway?;
- missing 70-200/2.8 ... ditto;
- missing 50/1.4 & 50/1.2;
- missing all primes over 90mm (100mm through 800mm);
- missing fisheye, T-S lenses, etc.
- 24-70/4 with crazy distortion of 3.84% barrel at 24 and 3% pin at 70, and costs $200 more than Canon's;
- 70-200/4 that weighs 80g more than Canon's, is bigger than Canon's, costs $300 more than Canon's; and despite the new A7 cameras having in-body stabilization, you still have to pay for the OSS;
- missing radio-control
...Show more

take into account that sony is relatively new to the FE mount and got tons of lenses out in a short amount of time. They've got a bunch of good primes, 25, 28, 35, 55, 85, 90. Their 16-35 is pretty good, and having the ability to adapt lenses gives them a huge stopgap ability. Another thing is that in the past, shooters would have to decide between the big two and commit to one or the other. With sony, you can stray with minimal risk. You like it, well they're developing their native lenses at a quick pace, and if you dont, well you can go back.

I wouldnt compare the zeiss to canons. The canon primes are cheap, without LD glass (they would be considered L glass if they had LD glass or aspherical). Another thing is that the sony glass covers different classes, they have their cheapo stuff and zeiss stuff. 28/2 is a stop faster than canon's version, as ED glass, and cost less, so it's not exactly black and white.

Canon may have more lenses, however, you can use canon lenses if you choose, no one forces you to buy sony glass.... in fact, I have more canon, than sony glass. However when shooting with sony, I can also shoot with leica M mount, or FD mount, or ect. I'm not bound to one set of lens, so the argument that canon has better glass is somewhat a mixed bag. Technically canon will AF better with EF lenses, however the adaptability of sony gives you a whole lot more options in realistic lens selection. For instance, I have a 200/2 nikkor. I've used it on a 5D3.... impossible to nail focus consistently via viewfinder, hence unusable on Canon. Pop the same lens on sony and I'm good, a completely usable 200/2. I cant really spend 4K on a second hand 200/2 for my canon system, my wife wouldnt allow it. A lens, that I likely would not own on canon till I finished mortgage payments, is now a lens I have for the sony setup. I am pretty happy about it.



Jun 18, 2015 at 11:03 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.26 #5 · p.26 #5 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


RustyBug wrote:
I was just offering some friendly writing (potential) advice to help a fellow FM'er to be less misunderstood.

Apparently, I am now the one being misunderstood ....

My apologies for any confusion I may have caused.


It might be time to let this one go... ;-)



Jun 18, 2015 at 11:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #6 · p.26 #6 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


zlatko wrote:
Sony isn't killing it with their system for the A7 series -
- missing 24-70/2.8 ... but who uses one of those anyway?;
- missing 70-200/2.8 ... ditto;
- missing 50/1.4 & 50/1.2;
- missing all primes over 90mm (100mm through 800mm);
- missing fisheye, T-S lenses, etc.
- 24-70/4 with crazy distortion of 3.84% barrel at 24 and 3% pin at 70, and costs $200 more than Canon's;
- 70-200/4 that weighs 80g more than Canon's, is bigger than Canon's, costs $300 more than Canon's; and despite the new A7 cameras having in-body stabilization, you still have to pay for the OSS;
- missing radio-control
...Show more

The lack of f/2.8 zooms and super telephoto lenses for the Sony A7 bodies is a concept decision based on weight and size. Sony and Zeiss are pretty much concentrating on quality fast primes and f/4 zooms. It is a compromise many photographers can't afford to have for their photography needs. (Sports, photojournalists, etc.)



Jul 14, 2015 at 05:40 PM
mttran
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p.26 #7 · p.26 #7 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Should canon be at the BSI configuration level by now? they are still at FSI conventional CMOS noisy architecture and it is too far behinds most sensor manufacture. Here is a draft how sony sensor is in progress last 7 years: http://www.framos.com/en/news/news/single-view/article/what-is-sonys-technology-anyway.html

I am not too worry about sony fast lenses shortage at this time. To me, A7r2 will be a solid, in IQ & AF evolution for any MFG lenses now and later. Botton line is all about lights and how we collect them.



Jul 14, 2015 at 07:47 PM
ggreene
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p.26 #8 · p.26 #8 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Fred Miranda wrote:
The lack of f/2.8 zooms and super telephoto lenses for the Sony A7 bodies is a concept decision based on weight and size. Sony and Zeiss are pretty much concentrating on quality fast primes and f/4 zooms. It is a compromise many photographers can't afford to have for their photography needs. (Sports, photojournalists, etc.)


Design a pro body then for faster zooms. I don't think sports photographers discount Sony as much as you seem to hear about. There is just nothing there to entice us. Sony has packed a lot of nice features in the A7R2. Seems like they could easily compete with a 1DX2 or D5 at the $4000-$4500 price point. There are a heck of lot of mid level shooters that would think about it. Both Canon and Nikon are rapidly out pricing a lot of sports shooters. 1DX2 and D5 with new tech could be pushing $7000-$8000.



Jul 14, 2015 at 09:52 PM
jctriguy
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p.26 #9 · p.26 #9 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


ggreene wrote:
Design a pro body then for faster zooms. I don't think sports photographers discount Sony as much as you seem to hear about. There is just nothing there to entice us. Sony has packed a lot of nice features in the A7R2. Seems like they could easily compete with a 1DX2 or D5 at the $4000-$4500 price point. There are a heck of lot of mid level shooters that would think about it. Both Canon and Nikon are rapidly out pricing a lot of sports shooters. 1DX2 and D5 with new tech could be pushing $7000-$8000.


I'm at Pan Am games and can say that it is still at least 80-90% canon. Lots of big bodies and bigger lenses. A few with smaller bodies, but mostly 1D size. The market seems to have shifted back to canon after the upgraded bodies and super tele's. Sony has such a huge mountain to climb if they want to break into the sport world. Bodies first and lenses second.



Jul 14, 2015 at 10:25 PM
mttran
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p.26 #10 · p.26 #10 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Credit to therealthings, click twice for A7Rii EXMOR R test sample: http://tinyurl.com/nennsoq
I don't know what others saying but I keep shooting A7R until sony upgrade it with EXMOR RS version.



Jul 15, 2015 at 10:41 AM
darbo
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p.26 #11 · p.26 #11 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


mttran wrote:
Credit to therealthings, click twice for A7Rii test sample: http://tinyurl.com/nennsoq


Beautiful! Although I have to say: pretty girl pictures are cheats - hard to really examine image quality with that distraction.




Jul 15, 2015 at 10:52 AM
mttran
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p.26 #12 · p.26 #12 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


darbo wrote:
Beautiful! Although I have to say: pretty girl pictures are cheats - hard to really examine image quality with that distraction.


That's true, she is a killer isn't she



Jul 15, 2015 at 10:58 AM
molson
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p.26 #13 · p.26 #13 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Charlie N wrote:
take into account that sony is relatively new to the FE mount and got tons of lenses out in a short amount of time.


In Sony years, which are a lot like dog years, the FE mount is rapidly approaching the end of its life...

As for "tons" of lenses (pun intended)... yes, many of them are much bigger and heavier than they need to be, but that's only because Sony's lens suppliers have just adapted fairly elephantine (hence the name FE...) SLR designs instead of taking advantage of the short flange distance the mirrorless system offers.

Edited on Jul 16, 2015 at 09:37 AM · View previous versions



Jul 15, 2015 at 12:48 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.26 #14 · p.26 #14 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


Fred Miranda wrote:
The lack of f/2.8 zooms and super telephoto lenses for the Sony A7 bodies is a concept decision based on weight and size. Sony and Zeiss are pretty much concentrating on quality fast primes and f/4 zooms. It is a compromise many photographers can't afford to have for their photography needs. (Sports, photojournalists, etc.)


I agree, Sony has pushed very hared on how much smaller their mirroless system is than a DSLR and that illusion can only be maintained by offering slower lenses which are naturally smaller. Thus they avoid the work horse lenses of most pros like the 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8. And my god how much would they want if they (or Zeiss) did produce those lenses.



Jul 16, 2015 at 07:03 AM
retrofocus
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p.26 #15 · p.26 #15 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


molson wrote:
In Sony years, which are a lot like dog years, the FE mount is rapidly approaching the end of its life...

As for "tons of lenses"... yes, many of them are much bigger and heavier than they need to be, but that's only because Sony's lens suppliers have just adapted SLR designs instead of taking advantage of the short flange distance the mirrorless system offers.


I believe the E-mount is much on the rise, even other third party manufacturers have now started to produce lenses for the E-mount. It's another discussion if the A-mount will survive....I think it is on the way out, and Sony will focus on the E-mount in the future.

Agree with the point about FE lens designs and adapted DSLR designs. Here Sony needs to further improve and bring smaller AF-based lens systems on the market.



Jul 16, 2015 at 07:16 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.26 #16 · p.26 #16 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


matejphoto wrote:
I have a Canon 5D mark II (since Jan 2009) and have been patiently waiting for a significant upgrade in sensor tech. 5D mark III looks great but for my work I don't need the speed.

The 5Ds looked like the answer but the lack of increase in dynamic range is disappointing to me. Are any of you who were gonna buy the 5Ds are now considering the Sony A7rII?

If the 5Ds had the dynamic range of the Sony sensors, I would not look any further. It just seems silly to buy old sensor tech at nearly $4000.


If you want/need significantly extra dynamic range compared to what Canon has delivered in the past then the 5DS/R is not it, the A7RII is. HUGE step up from any Canon ever made, in the dynamic range department. It will change the way you work. Period.

Where I think the 5DS/R is a big step up is in the very long exposure performance, but so far no one has posted much about this.




Jul 16, 2015 at 07:33 AM
arbitrage
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p.26 #17 · p.26 #17 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


retrofocus wrote:
I believe the E-mount is much on the rise, even other third party manufacturers have now started to produce lenses for the E-mount. It's another discussion if the A-mount will survive....I think it is on the way out, and Sony will focus on the E-mount in the future.

Agree with the point about FE lens designs and adapted DSLR designs. Here Sony needs to further improve and bring smaller AF-based lens systems on the market.


Lets hope Sony does just focus on the E-mount and doesn't do the the typical Sony thing and abandon it for something new all of a sudden. I'm still waiting to enter the Sony mirrorless market but it looks like it will be in my future eventually.



Jul 16, 2015 at 08:15 AM
Filterman
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p.26 #18 · p.26 #18 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


I agree Dan. Some photographers in our club squeeze a lot out of their cameras by using digital blending which can extend the DR quite a bit without having to resort to HDR.


I am now using digital blending to extend the range of my DR and after it is mastered it can be done quite quickly. Just using a Canon 6D but find it is more than adequate with the use of these techniques.

J. Allen



Jul 16, 2015 at 09:48 AM
Mark K
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p.26 #19 · p.26 #19 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


matejphoto wrote:
I have a Canon 5D mark II (since Jan 2009) and have been patiently waiting for a significant upgrade in sensor tech. 5D mark III looks great but for my work I don't need the speed.

The 5Ds looked like the answer but the lack of increase in dynamic range is disappointing to me. Are any of you who were gonna buy the 5Ds are now considering the Sony A7rII?

If the 5Ds had the dynamic range of the Sony sensors, I would not look any further. It just seems silly to buy old sensor tech at nearly $4000.

I was waiting for a 5Dsr to upgrade my 5d3 but A7rII will do the job. The only concern will be AF speed and accuracy. With 5D3, I shoot a lot more than Sony A7r because of AF issues known to everyone




Jul 16, 2015 at 11:39 AM
Paul Mo
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p.26 #20 · p.26 #20 · Canon 5Ds vs. Sony A7rII


mttran wrote:
Credit to therealthings, click twice for A7Rii EXMOR R test sample: http://tinyurl.com/nennsoq
I don't know what others saying but I keep shooting A7R until sony upgrade it with EXMOR RS version.


Nice eyes. Nice lips. But that green hair...



Jul 16, 2015 at 11:48 AM
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