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Archive 2015 · Outsourcing Culling.

  
 
joelconner
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Outsourcing Culling.


We are trying more and more to outsource as much as well possibly can, but one area where I just cannot seem to get on board is with culling.

In many ways, I feel like it is one of most important and decision crucial elements...even more than editing. How do you trust someone to do that? Can you train someone who is not a photographer to know what to look for?



Jun 09, 2015 at 03:45 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Outsourcing Culling.


My super-assistant does my culling. It takes a lot of trust, but that trust was earned over years of her watching me cull, developing an eye herself and I now trust her culling instincts more than my own. We've also known each other for like 15 yrs so that doesn't hurt. (You met her, MT)

I know she would be willing to cull for others if you'd like to give it a shot. She can cull loose or very tight depending on what you want. Personally I like to have my set culled pretty tight though we have loosened up just a little in the last year or so.



Jun 09, 2015 at 03:52 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Outsourcing Culling.


In some ways it might be better they are not a photographer!

Is this really something worth wanting to outsource? It usually only takes a second or two an image for me to to decide if it is in or out.



Jun 09, 2015 at 05:10 PM
Brian Virts
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Outsourcing Culling.


I've thought of offering it, I think there are probably many photographers who would be interested. We are pretty much there technically to do this online with RAW storage.


Jun 09, 2015 at 06:01 PM
hardlyboring
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Outsourcing Culling.


I have never wanted to cull and turn down offers for it daily.
I am not going to be responsible for picking the shots that are most important... IMO that is the job of the photographer.
We are not shooting editorial photos where an art director or editor chooses the shots to be featured or printed or whatever. I really think it is almost impossible to cull for someone else because culling ones own work is an artwork in itself.

We spend all day deciding what to include and not include in our photos in terms of content. Why let someone else decide what goes into the final set?

Anyway not saying having someone else cull is bad I just don't like to do it so I do not offer it.



Jun 09, 2015 at 11:36 PM
Brian Virts
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Outsourcing Culling.


It would certainly need to be a fostered relationship. Many top pros have people that cull, Cliff Mautner comes to mind.


Jun 10, 2015 at 06:17 AM
playerofwar
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Outsourcing Culling.


Depends on your style and such. For weddings I like doing it myself, but I don't even look at my product and fashion shots. Just give to our editor and I get to see the ones that are going to be used fully edited, I give a few remarks, they get fixed and job done. LOVE IT!


Jun 10, 2015 at 06:37 AM
tonyhart
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Outsourcing Culling.


For me, it's not something I'd remotely consider. I vaguely consider outsourcing editing occasionally, but culling is an extension of the "what shall I/what shan't I shoot" decision making process. It's integral to what you're trying to offer, so, for me, it's a complete no go.


Jun 10, 2015 at 06:43 AM
lilyphoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Outsourcing Culling.


Yeah, I'd never do it. They don't know your clients or the guests who were present at the wedding. Seems like an easy way to get something deleted that would possibly be important to the client.


Jun 10, 2015 at 09:11 AM
MattGruber
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Outsourcing Culling.


For me, I would never do it. It takes me an hour give or take to go through a do an initial cull. There are many times I have a bride or groom tell me that they want a particular shot, even though it's nothing special. Someone who wasn't present at their day might look at the image and think there's no need to include it- but it means something to the client. That right there is reason enough for me to never have someone cull my work who wasn't present on the day.


Jun 10, 2015 at 09:27 AM
klee.007
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Outsourcing Culling.


Ali (my wife) does our culling and I love her for it. (she gets paid too of course)

Keith



Jun 10, 2015 at 09:34 AM
joelconner
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Outsourcing Culling.


Thanks, all...glad to know there are others in my same boat. It's hard for me to know that someone else would really see what I had in mind with certain shots...hard for them to see the diamond in the apparent, unedited rough. At some point it might be worth my time to have someone try it for me.


Jun 10, 2015 at 09:58 AM
friscoron
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Outsourcing Culling.


MattGruber wrote:
For me, I would never do it. It takes me an hour give or take to go through a do an initial cull. There are many times I have a bride or groom tell me that they want a particular shot, even though it's nothing special. Someone who wasn't present at their day might look at the image and think there's no need to include it- but it means something to the client. That right there is reason enough for me to never have someone cull my work who wasn't present on the day.


An hour to cull a wedding? I wish I could do it that quickly.

Joel, I'm in the process now of hiring someone to do all my editing so I can shoot more, and market myself more. I've hit the ceiling in terms of shooting and editing all my own work, and I still need to generate considerable more revenue, and I need to get these weddings edited quicker. Eventually, I'm hoping she will cull for me but it will take time to get there. I just hope it doesn't take 15 years.



Jun 10, 2015 at 11:05 AM
DONIV
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Outsourcing Culling.


definitely a bottleneck for many photographers. one of the best decisions i made is outsourcing my culling. it def helps having a person do it that has a little background, but not totally necessary. we are a bit more on the creative side so it helps having someone that is artistic and will understand your final product. very important to have them understand your final product before showing them how you cull. I tell the girl I've been mentoring for a while that if she's not sure about one, just leave it. Easy to delete later. This way you don't really have an issue with missing pics. I have more of an issue w/ her leaving too many pics than her culling too hard (which is a better problem than missing pics). I pass the files directly to my editor afterwards w/o looking at what she has culled. After I receive my pics back, I delete the ones that I feel shouldn't be there. This might be only 30-50 pics or so. That comes out to be about $6-$8 for error costs....I pay a recent video grad $50-$70 per wedding (depending on size) to cull my images. Culling was a huge bottleneck for me. Clients now get pics a lot sooner. I can spend 3 hours I save marketing/family. She sometimes knocks out 2 weddings per day for me!
It was a bit hard outsourcing culling in the beginning, but now it's a no-brainer (IMO)



Jun 10, 2015 at 12:19 PM
Syracuse
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Outsourcing Culling.


Editing yes, culling no. Just seems way too risky to have someone else who wasn't present on the wedding day decide what is kept and what is discarded.


Jun 10, 2015 at 02:03 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Outsourcing Culling.


joelconner wrote:
Thanks, all...glad to know there are others in my same boat. It's hard for me to know that someone else would really see what I had in mind with certain shots...hard for them to see the diamond in the apparent, unedited rough. At some point it might be worth my time to have someone try it for me.



I used to think the same but I think that if someone you trust can't see the value of an image (after being educated a bit on recoverability, silhouettes, bracketing, under exposing highlight retention etc), then there probably isn't any value in the image. It takes having the right fit for it to be the case but as DONIV said, if it's questionable they should keep it. They should be able to tell if you may have been trying something creative that may turn out interesting once edited or cropped or whatever.

I used to believe that culling was something I had to personally do. Then I realized I culled to a stronger set with MT's help than on my own and of course now she is doing it without input from me. Occasionally she'll ask for my opinion between a few shots just to confirm her own thoughts and invariably the one she would have picked is the one we agree on after discussing.



Jun 10, 2015 at 02:10 PM
MattGruber
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Outsourcing Culling.




friscoron wrote:
An hour to cull a wedding? I wish I could do it that quickly.



Maybe a little more? I've never timed it, but it doesn't take me too long to go through and hit the 5 button for the images I want to keep. From there it takes a little longer once I get into the editing and have to really choose between countless group shots.



Jun 10, 2015 at 03:03 PM
joshua grasso
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Outsourcing Culling.


id have a hard time. But Ive though that if I tried it then I'd have themdo a very loose cull maybe reducing it by 25 percent of all the obvious stuff and that might save you some time when you go through to tighten it.


Jun 10, 2015 at 08:15 PM
joshua grasso
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Outsourcing Culling.


id have a hard time. But Ive though that if I tried it then I'd have themdo a very loose cull maybe reducing it by 25 percent of all the obvious stuff and that might save you some time when you go through to tighten it.


Jun 10, 2015 at 08:15 PM
joshua grasso
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Outsourcing Culling.


id have a hard time. But Ive though that if I tried it then I'd have themdo a very loose cull maybe reducing it by 25 percent of all the obvious stuff and that might save you some time when you go through to tighten it.


Jun 10, 2015 at 08:15 PM
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