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Archive 2015 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten

  
 
nolaguy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


Yikes. Apologies if I'm overstaying my welcome with this thread part 2...

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1366117

...but does anyone have experience with or impressions of these little guys for portraiture and/or real estate:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/125371-REG/LTM_PH_154B_Pepper_100W_Fresnel.html#!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/125372-REG/LTM_PH_154C_Pepper_200W_Fresnel_Light.html

or their LTM brethren?


Thanks so much,

Chuck



May 25, 2015 at 12:30 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


One or two hundred watts of incandescent light isn't going to be enough for reasonable exposures at low ISOs.

To light a room you need one or two kilowatts of incandescent lighting.

While the fresnel look is not easy to imitate for portraits and was the "secret" of Hollywood photographers for years, they used much larger lights.

<Chas>



May 25, 2015 at 01:18 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


Thank you, Chas. I'm guessing I'll end up with two or three more powerful lamps but am toying with the idea of several lower power units for accents and real estate but this is new territory for me and I'm very much in the early discovery phase. I appreciate your advice.

Regards,

Chuck



May 26, 2015 at 11:11 AM
markd61
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


The problem with hot lights in an interior setting is that they require AC service. Can be OK in some cases but one is still running cords here and there. In addition older homes have few outlets and iffy power. Blown breakers are not unusual for higher wattage lights.
The last issue is heat. Years ago I worked in photo lab when a local photographer came in with a box of 4x5 for processing. He was a bit down in the mouth and I asked him how things were going. He replied that the shoot the night before of a very high end home (~$5M) had been going well until they noticed in a Polaroid test that a light in an adjacent room had gone out. When they went in the room to check, they found a 1000W light was burning a pie-sized hole into a custom couch. Apparently the assistant had not secured the stand with a sandbag and somehow the stand had fallen over. Suffice to say the conversation with the client had not gone well.
I made a mental note to myself that if I ever found myself in that situation I would use flash.

Now my main business is architecture and interiors and I DO use gelled flash. While tungsten light sources used to blend very nicely with the practicals on location, the adoption of varied lighting technologies such as CFL and LEDs of various origin and WB mean that no longer is true.
The other reason I will use gelled flash is for speed. Ten years ago I could take my time setting up a room and testing and re-testing. Now the clients expect the job to be done in the time it took to make one view.
:/.



May 26, 2015 at 11:28 AM
Paul_K
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


Apart from the possible AC and heat issues mentioned, also keep in mind that tungsten light also has a color temperature of between 3200K and 3400K

While unlike the film days switching color temperature on the camera itself is no problem with modern DSLR's, the mixed color of the two light sources can be when you are shooting an interior in color during the day, with daylight at 5400K coming in from the windows, and your lamps much more yellow at 3200-3400K.

If you dial in 3400K on your camera. the daylight coming in from the windows will get very blueish, and with 5400K on the camera the interior lit by the lamps will be very yellowish.

You can of course put 80a filters on your lamps, but that will also block part of the output (basically working as a blueish ND filter) and when shooting with mere 200W lamps that may very well be a problem



May 26, 2015 at 01:39 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


markd61 wrote:
The problem with hot lights in an interior setting is that they require AC service. Can be OK in some cases but one is still running cords here and there. In addition older homes have few outlets and iffy power. Blown breakers are not unusual for higher wattage lights.

The last issue is heat. Years ago I worked in photo lab when a local photographer came in with a box of 4x5 for processing. He was a bit down in the mouth and I asked him how things were going. He replied that the shoot the night before of a very
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

Paul_K wrote:
Apart from the possible AC and heat issues mentioned, also keep in mind that tungsten light also has a color temperature of between 3200K and 3400K

While unlike the film days switching color temperature on the camera itself is no problem with modern DSLR's, the mixed color of the two light sources can be when you are shooting an interior in color during the day, with daylight at 5400K coming in from the windows, and your lamps much more yellow at 3200-3400K.

If you dial in 3400K on your camera. the daylight coming in from the windows will get very blueish, and
...Show more



Mark, Paul, thanks a lot for your comments - I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. I am indeed concerned about all the points you both address but even so, it's useful to read over your specific admonitions. A year from now I could very well be shaking my head wondering what in the world I was thinking.


I already deal with the color temperature issue shooting properties and it's a nuisance to be sure. I think I mentioned in the other thread that I don't currently light the real estate stuff but between the daylight spill and the newer technologies people often have mixed in with incandescent, it's often all over the place already. Clearly if I get serious about bumping the real estate work to the next level it's going to involve a combination of continuous and the Elinchroms and/or SB's. I'm not at all sure where this may lead.

The architecture stuff is interesting, but the driver for me right now is the portraiture. In a sense it's a throw back to younger years when (whether I was photographing or illustrating) I was lighting subjects (or self-portraits for school) with desk lamps or living room lamps. The whole wysiwyg thing - and the very interactive feel of adjusting lights while looking at the subject, not the LCD or laptop... it's just been tugging at me for a while now.


We'll see where it goes and again, thanks so much to taking the time to offer your help. I so appreciate it.


And Mark, one immediate goodness is I redirected 7% of the budget to more sandbags.




Regards,

Chuck



May 26, 2015 at 07:39 PM
JakeB17
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


I posted in your other thread as well, but steer clear of LTM. They are essentially out of business, so getting anything repaired or new parts is impossible.

Also, little peppers are just as the name implies, good for adding a little spice to the background of a shot, not for lighting the talent or the set.

Just noticed you said you're shooting real estate. Besides the color temp issue which was already mentioned, you should know tungsten lights are far less powerful than strobes. A 60w speedlight is more powerful than a 2k open face tungsten head. Even HMIs aren't on the same page power wise. A 1,200s monolight is about the same as a 6k par HMI. I own a few 6ks (and larger)...they require a serious generator and team of electricians to power and operate. Not quite something you can run by yourself and plug into the wall.



Jun 01, 2015 at 08:04 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


It seems I'm chasing you around the boards... lol

Thanks again, Jake. I do love my strobes and my current curiosities over continuous are perhaps amateurish. The real estate applications would be a perk if it works out but I don't see a lot of opportunity for carefully lit property shots in my local market.

Where my head is really at is the fun of experimenting with the "what you see" angle of continuous beyond what the strobe modeling lights really provide. It's purely "artistic" if you will. For example, it's not an ambition to be able to light a full set for video - and even for still portraiture, I don't think I'll be greatly disappointed if I have to use higher ISO or slower shutter speeds to gulp enough light. I guess the point being, even if I began with lower wattage lamps, it would probably still get me in the ballpark of my ambitions. Further, I sort of like the idea of one or two stronger lights and several minor ones just to be able to play with more complex arrays of light.

Hope all that makes sense. Again, I appreciate you and your insights.

Chuck



Jun 01, 2015 at 08:41 AM
JakeB17
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


The application of power is more important for the real estate work, where you'd be fighting the sun. A little tungsten light vs the sun is like a pocket knife vs the navy seals, it's not going to cut it.

I totally get the idea of seeing what you're getting with continuous lights though. I'm glad I learned on them and not on strobes. Considering portraits are where you're likely to get the most use out of them I'd recommend going with Kinos because they are are relatively soft and forgiving out the box. You need an army of grip gear to tame fresnels normally when dealing with soft light for people (or at least large chimeras).

With kinos you'll still want to diffuse them further for portraits, but you have a few more options. For instance, you can simply cut and clip/tape diffusion to the doors of the kino and get a really soft light if it's close enough. Muslin over kinos looks especially nice. My go to close up, beauty light on set is often a Kino Image 87 shot through a 4x4 of bleached muslin then an 8x8 or 12x12 of unbleached muslin. Or for fill clip the muslin to the Image 87, then tilt it straight down, and let the spill bleed onto the diffusion for a super subtle fill....we call it a ghost light, because it's barely there.

You can do the same thing with the smaller kinos, like 4ft 4 banks or 2ft 4 banks, but the Image 87 is probably my favorite light when it comes to soft sources.



Jun 01, 2015 at 09:06 AM
nolaguy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


Dang it... now you have me curious about the Kino's. If I'm following, it's actually very different than the lighting I've been imagining/pursuing but to the degree I'm a gear head, it's about having a breadth of flexibility so anything appealing that I don't currently have is of interest. What you seem to be describing sounds almost like soft window light - is that correct?



Jun 01, 2015 at 09:32 AM
cwebster
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


You are going to have some serious sticker shock over the Kino-Flos.

Just sayin'



Jun 01, 2015 at 08:22 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · LTM Peppers - continuous tungsten


I know... I know. I'm familiar with them - pricewise, at least. I'm going to need a 12 step program.



Jun 01, 2015 at 09:10 PM





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