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Archive 2015 · Best storage for new Macbook pro

  
 
ross.thomas
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


I'm looking for advice for storage, preferably thunderbolt 2, for the new Macbook Pro I just ordered. I'm loking the speeds of the Lacie rugged 2 TB series, but wanted to get your opinion on both desktop and portable storage.

Also, do you guys edit on your external drives, or edit on the internal drive, then just transfer the exported images to your external drives



May 24, 2015 at 10:40 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


The Pegasus Thunderbolt 2 system is excellent. You can configure this 4TB item in RAID 5 to give an effective capacity of 3TB.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1046491-REG/promise_technology_p2m4hd4us_promise_pegasus2_4x1tb_t_bolt2.html

You can have all your image files on this external system and your software programs on the internal SSD.




May 24, 2015 at 10:59 PM
ross.thomas
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Best storage for new Macbook pro




Rajan Parrikar wrote:
The Pegasus Thunderbolt 2 system is excellent. You can configure this 4TB item in RAID 5 to give an effective capacity of 3TB.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1046491-REG/promise_technology_p2m4hd4us_promise_pegasus2_4x1tb_t_bolt2.html

You can have all your image files on this external system and your software programs on the internal SSD.



I wish I had another thousand dollars to spend, but unfortunately after buying that MacBook I'm a bit tapped out for the moment. Anything cheaper?



May 24, 2015 at 11:30 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


If you are looking for simply Thunderbolt 2 drives there are many options. The Pegasus requires a higher initial dollar outlay but may work out cheaper in the longer run if your capacity needs grow fast enough (that determination only you can make). You can replace the 1TB drives with higher capacity drives if you run out of space.


May 25, 2015 at 12:19 AM
Paulthelefty
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


I am no expert, but my understanding is that if you are using spin drives, USB 3 is about as fast as you can go anyway, so thunderbolt is not worth the $$$. Now if you go SSD then that is a different story.

Also many USB 3 enclosures (if you go enclosure/separate drives) have issues with macs, so make sure you read reviews, etc and go with a brand or vendor that will let you return it if it doesn't work. I currently have a couple Startech USB 3 single enclosures that work great on a PC but will not mount for my MBP.

They are not cheap, but I am very happy with my CRU tray-less USB 3 enclosures that allow super quick and easy drive swaps and solid performance through an Elgato docking station.

Cheers,
Paul



May 25, 2015 at 12:34 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


Paul is pretty right . the speed difference (using single spinning drives) is negligible between USB3 and Thunderbolt (let alone thunderbolt 2) .
my understanding is thunderbolt can withstand a higher thrust so large file transfers can be a bit quicker .

But just look around for speed tests of things like that Lacie Rugged you mention and you'll see very little to really warrant the T/bolt version . even Lacie's SSD rugged's are not much faster in T/bolt mode than in USB3

Now if you start down the route of Raided desktop drives then yes you will probably see a speed increase with T/bolt . and if those drives are SSD then they will fly . Just search out the Lacie Little Big Disk SSD demo's on line .

But seriously back down to earth if your really looking for a T/bolt portable (you mentioned the rugged) then maybe look at the WD My Passport Pro . its a 2 (or 4 gig) raided pair of drives . I've seen speed tests for it that show just over 200mbps for both read and write .


Edit:
just as a guide . My desktop MY BOOK STUDIO (single drive USB3) gets about 120mbps on USB3 on my iMac . and a basic 2.5" portable usb3 drive I have (toshiba I think) gets about 80mbps .
so I'd expect a 2 disk raid to get close to those thunderbolt raided speeds .

unless your constantly transfering large files or doing large video files (i.e. 4K) then is the huge extra expense of T/bolt really worth it ?



May 25, 2015 at 01:57 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


I use G-Technology and OWC for my Macs. I use the G-Tech portable thunderbolt 1TB external drives to backup my flash storage on my Mac Pro (current work). As the files get older I move them in LR to an OWC Thunderbay for archiving on 4TB disks.

G-Tech makes a 6TB external drive that looks nice. Could be a good solution for a Macbook.

6TB External Drive USB3

There is a little slower 4TB version as well.



May 25, 2015 at 06:46 AM
ShotByTom
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


This is what I use: http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Desktop-Storage-Metal-Enclosure/dp/B00F0JXE04/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1432572735&sr=8-3&keywords=WD+My+Book+Hard+Drive+for+mac

Very fast, reliable and very affordable. I actually have two of these and have never had a problem. I also use this for Time Machine Backups for 3 computers.



May 25, 2015 at 11:54 AM
ross.thomas
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Best storage for new Macbook pro




a123 wrote:
This is what I use: http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Desktop-Storage-Metal-Enclosure/dp/B00F0JXE04/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1432572735&sr=8-3&keywords=WD+My+Book+Hard+Drive+for+mac

Very fast, reliable and very affordable. I actually have two of these and have never had a problem. I also use this for Time Machine Backups for 3 computers.


That looks like a really nice, affordable, option for long-term storage. And it also is very inexpensive for up to 4 TB. Would anyone else recommend this for long term storage of clients data?



May 25, 2015 at 12:24 PM
jbregar
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


Thunderbolt is a waste for a single spinning drive. Period. Unless you're going to use a RAID of some sort, USB3 is as fast as you're going to get. A single platter drive just can't saturate a USB3 bus, much less Thinderbolt or Thunderbolt 2.


May 25, 2015 at 12:41 PM
Paulthelefty
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


a123 wrote:
This is what I use: http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Desktop-Storage-Metal-Enclosure/dp/B00F0JXE04/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1432572735&sr=8-3&keywords=WD+My+Book+Hard+Drive+for+mac

Very fast, reliable and very affordable. I actually have two of these and have never had a problem. I also use this for Time Machine Backups for 3 computers.

That looks like a really nice, affordable, option for long-term storage. And it also is very inexpensive for up to 4 TB. Would anyone else recommend this for long term storage of clients data?


Whatever you get, get 2, you need a backup. Better yet, get three, rotate one into the safe/deposit box/offsite/whatever every week or two. That is why I like the trayless CRU design, only need to swap drives and not entire enclosures.

Paul



May 25, 2015 at 09:53 PM
ross.thomas
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Best storage for new Macbook pro




Paulthelefty wrote:
Whatever you get, get 2, you need a backup. Better yet, get three, rotate one into the safe/deposit box/offsite/whatever every week or two. That is why I like the trayless CRU design, only need to swap drives and not entire enclosures.

Paul


Valid point I never want a disastrous situation to happen.



May 25, 2015 at 10:10 PM
ohsnaphappy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


MacMall had a refurbished 4tb LaCie Rig that runs 230/Mbps for $199 I think. Look it up, not a bad deal


May 26, 2015 at 12:46 AM
Chris Dees
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


I use a Thunderbolt LaCie 6Gb (raid0). It's very fast (even with large files).
As Raid0 is vulnerable I have 2 USB3 Toshiba 3Tb drives. One at home, one at the office.



May 26, 2015 at 01:31 AM
Alan321
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


The modern huge-capacity 4-6TB 3.5" HDDs can transfer ate up to about 180-200MB/s and are a lot faster than 2-3TB HDDs of not many years ago. Mind you, that is for sustained transfers and not for transferring typical small files. It seems to me that you often don't get told what drives are in a pre-packaged storage case, so be careful.

You'll want your drives to be a lot bigger than you need so that you can use just the first 30-50% for significantly faster transfer rates. The big outer tracks can feed you data twice as fast as the small inner tracks on any HDD - so long as the computer is capable of out-running the HDD.

A RAID system can be configured to offer lots more speed than single drives but some of that is lost in favour of redundancy in case of drive-failure. Don't go without redundancy. Any system that parallels or stripes drives increases the chance of total failure because a single failure amongst any of the drives will cause total data loss - unless redundancy is built into the RAID.

SoftRAID is reported to be an especially fast software RAID controller for Mac that has minimal impact on cpu loading. Other choices may not be so good.

Whatever you get, make sure that it is not a drobo if you value performance. My drobo 5D is nowhere near as fast as USB 3 or thunderbolt would suggest, but I admit that it is comfy to know that I have dual drive-failure redundancy instead of the more common single drive redundancy. When you factor in the need for redundancy and also for performance that justifies the use of thunderbolt, then you need a case that can hold at least 4 drives. Another strike against drobo is that it doesn't let you determine which part of the drives are used for each volume, so you cannot prevent it from using the slow inner tracks for volumes that require maximum performance.

I am invested in thunderbolt technology but I strongly advise you to get something with both thunderbolt and USB 3 interfaces. Thunderbolt is almost non-existent outside the Apple world and I don't even trust Apple to stick with it when USB 3.1 and faster eSATA options come along. They've already abandoned firewire and firewire 800. At least with a usb 3 interface you'll have the option to use your new storage case with other computers in future, or give it to someone who can use it.

Thunderbolt is better than USB 3 when it comes to adding another box for quickly cloning whatever is on your RAID case, without using up all of your data ports, because the interface is 2-4 times as fast and works both ways at that speed. This can be significant - Always remember that a RAID option is not a suitable backup option on its own - you still need other storage for separate backups that are usually not on-line and preferably not even near the computer location. A speedy backup is more likely to happen than a slow backup that gets in your way for too long.

Another advantage of thunderbolt is the ability to connect a PCIe case that lets you use very speedy "external" PCIe SSD storage. These days you get little or no chance to upgrade internal SSD storage in your Mac computers, and although SATA options are cheaper they are slower too.

- Alan



May 26, 2015 at 02:46 AM
jbregar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


Alan321 wrote:
The modern huge-capacity 4-6TB 3.5" HDDs can transfer ate up to about 180-200MB/s and are a lot faster than 2-3TB HDDs of not many years ago. Mind you, that is for sustained transfers and not for transferring typical small files. It seems to me that you often don't get told what drives are in a pre-packaged storage case, so be careful.


Doesn't matter. Even 200MB/s is a drop in the bucket compared to USB3. Thunderbolt will offer no benefit for you unless your drive system can saturate a USB3 bus... which NO single drive can do.

You'll want your drives to be a lot bigger than you need so that you can use just the first 30-50% for significantly faster transfer rates. The big outer tracks can feed you data twice as fast as the small inner tracks on any HDD - so long as the computer is capable of out-running the HDD.

I think "twice as fast" is a little bit of hyperbole. Most drives you don't see much difference at all from the tests I've seen. For photo-related stuff, I think you're being silly to recommend buying a 6TB HDD so you can use less than 2TB of it (30% of 6TB).

You'd see a much greater performance increase from RAIDing your drives on a good controller and using the majority of the drive.

Thunderbolt is better than USB 3 when it comes to adding another box for quickly cloning whatever is on your RAID case, without using up all of your data ports, because the interface is 2-4 times as fast and works both ways at that speed. This can be significant

Not unless your RAID AND the destination drive can fully saturate the USB3 bus... which MOST can't. In order to saturate a USB3 bus, your drives need to be able to sustain around 640MB/s. Assuming you're using a RAID0 (please don't) and each individual drive can do 150MB/s, that means you'd need FIVE drives before USB3 is the limiting factor. And you'd need that five drive RAID0 on both ends of the transaction.

If you're using SSD, then Thunderbolt may make more sense, but a majority of SSDs on the market right now can't saturate USB3 singly either.

Unless you're using a big disk array that can move a lot of data around, Thunderbolt and it's associated cost premium are a waste. Big, fast USB3 disks are relatively plentiful and pretty cheap, Thunderbolt... not so much.

This is like throwing a basketball down a hallway... does it matter if the hallway is 4' wide or 8' wide if the basketball is only 10" in diameter?



May 26, 2015 at 10:11 AM
butchM
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


I have been very pleased with a pair of OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual housings. I filled each with a pair of 3TB 7200 rpm drives in RAID O ... they are backed up by a pair of OWC Mercury Elite Pro Qx2 (these were my former working drive housings before going Thunderbolt) each filled with four 2TB 7200 rpm drives in RAID 5 and connected using eSATA and a Lacie Thunderbolt Hub.

I use these in a workflow with RAW still images in Lr and Ps and editing 1080p video in FCPX with no noticeable lag.

It's a bit more expensive than USB 3 ... but ... Thunderbolt offers daisy chaining and I have only one cable to connect to have all my drives attached to a workstation. The simplicity is welcome.



May 26, 2015 at 11:13 AM
Alan321
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


The MBP has a couple of USB 3 ports but they run off a single controller. My understanding is that they therefore share the 5Gbps bandwidth. The two thunderbolt 2 ports also run off a single controller but they are sharing a 20Gbps bandwidth each way (in and out). Therefore I stand by my previous statement that tb is the better interface for making large and speedy backups from one device to another, if you are using some sort of RAID or SSD storage.

The outer tracks of a 6TB HDD have a sustained transfer capacity of about 210 MB/s, whereas the innner tracks are down to about 120MB/s. A 2TB HDD would be slower by about 50%.

Typical transfers are a lot slower on any HDD because of several factors such as:
1. Heads having to move from track to track (irrelevant with SSDs)
2. Heads having to wait for the appropriate data sector to rotate to where the heads are (irrelevant with SSDs)
3. Software using unnecessarily small data transfer blocks
4. The way the file system works. e.g. NTFS is slower than HFS+ which is slower than FAT32, but then FAT32 is more prone to data loss in the even of a power failure or connection failure.
5. Disabling write caching to improve data transfer integrity will slow things down.
6. The required data not being contiguous (irrelevant with SSDs). i.e. the files are split over different locations or, even if they are intact, they are not stored together.

The more tracks you have you have to use because the drive is getting full, the more delays there will be when accessing them. The fewer you use, because you're only using part of the drive and because there is more data per track, the fewer delays there will be.

This is all about transfers to and from the magnetic media - not to the controller and its RAM cache. Very small transfers will appear to be instant because of the caching but larger transfers will soon fill that cache. And the more the data is scattered all over the drive the more things will slow down because the cache will be used less efficiently.

You can see example speed tests and recommendations at www.macperformanceguide.com It includes examples with different drive capacities, different RAID arrangements, different transfer block sizes, etc.

Another recommendation is to use a large-capacity RAID for on-line or regular usage but have it partitioned into volumes that are suitable for cloning to single drives that can be used for off-site storage or tucked away where a thief will be less likely to find it.

- Alan



May 31, 2015 at 05:15 AM
jbregar
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Best storage for new Macbook pro


Alan321 wrote:
The MBP has a couple of USB 3 ports but they run off a single controller. My understanding is that they therefore share the 5Gbps bandwidth. The two thunderbolt 2 ports also run off a single controller but they are sharing a 20Gbps bandwidth each way (in and out). Therefore I stand by my previous statement that tb is the better interface for making large and speedy backups from one device to another, if you are using some sort of RAID or SSD storage.


The rMBPs have two USB3 ports that EACH support full bandwidth. The 2013+ Mac Pro is the one where the ports all share a PCIe bus. The Tb2 ports on a rMBP do indeed share a single bus.

So, again... unless you're using a big, 4+ disk RAID0 array on each end of the transaction or very high performance SSDs, USB 3 and Thunderbolt will perform about the same while the Thunderbolt drives cost significantly more. If you have a need to move a LOT of data between two VERY fast arrays, then yes... Thunderbolt is better. But most people aren't moving data between two $6000 RAIDs populated with SSDs...

Also, note the original post isn't talking about a Promise Pegasus populated with SSDs... he's talking about a LaCie Rugged 2TB... which is a 2.5" platter drive. Hooking that up via Thunderbolt is a waste of bandwidth several times over. The platter version of the Rugged 2TB pushes 110MB/s... Even the SSD version is only 385MB/s. Neither one is even making USB3 sweat.


The outer tracks of a 6TB HDD have a sustained transfer capacity of about 210 MB/s, whereas the innner tracks are down to about 120MB/s. A 2TB HDD would be slower by about 50%.


Right, but I'll still maintain it's silly for an average user to buy a 6TB HDD so they can only use 30% of it... unless you're moving a LOT of data all the time.



Jun 15, 2015 at 04:48 PM





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