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Archive 2015 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum

  
 
Mnd1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


When I look at my posted images on here they look awful compared to what I see on my screen. What am I doing wrong?


May 24, 2015 at 09:52 AM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Mine don't look as good either. They often look as though detail is lost. Interestingly, I find that the browser makes a difference and perhaps the screen/browser combination. I don't know how to optimize for viewing on the forum and would be happy to hear from someone that does.


May 24, 2015 at 05:12 PM
Mnd1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


I'm glad I'm not the only one. I current;y use Steve Perry's Web Sharpening actions and while the results are better than my attempts I still feel that theres a better method and I'm hoping someone will enlighten me/us.


May 24, 2015 at 06:15 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


My images look virtually identical to how they look in Photoshop. Can you detail exactly what you're doing and how you're doing it when you save a jpeg for uploading, including pixel dimension, color space, profile embedding, etc. The only weird thing that I see happen is that I often upload RGB black and white, in sRGB, and for some reason, those get converted to Grayscale, but still with an sRGB profile, which technically can't happen. So, they look every so slightly different in the shadows when viewed through a browser on FredMiranda, but otherwise identical. Certainly sharpness wise. You shouldn't need anyone else's sharpening actions to make great looking web jpegs. Just use the tools you have to optimize how you want your images to look. Just don't make the mistake that so many do of over sharpening or leaving in visible halos.


May 24, 2015 at 08:23 PM
Mnd1
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


I found that using the PS actions provided by Steve Perry did a better job that I was doing.

Here's a link to his video on Web Sharpening.

My usual workflow is to open in LR do the basics, then open in CS6 where I will create another layer and sharpen using Macphum Intensify Pro mostly very minimally. I then run one of Steves Actions, usually H1200 which converts it to sRGB and 1200px amongst other things. I then view the image at 100% then save it as a jpg at level 9. At that point they look fine on my monitor but nowhere near as good on the Forum.



May 24, 2015 at 09:11 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


I love it when video dudes tell you to do something without telling you why. It usually means they don't know, and probably shouldn't be doing the video in the first place.

Why WOULDN'T you use Unsharp Masking or Smart Sharpen when you have them available and use instead a sharpening method with no adjustability, but apply it twice on top of itself. Makes no sense.

Why also would you do your sharpening at 1.67 times your final resolution? Why indeed? Never a mention as to why. The only reason I can think of is that the final reduction to your final pixel dimension will soften that sharpening a bit, but why not just apply the correct amount at the final resolution?

There have been a couple of other threads about image quality on this site. It's possible that you're hitting an auto re-size feature that is hosing your files. Try a slightly smaller pixel size - more like 900 or so and see if that doesn't make a difference.



May 25, 2015 at 12:32 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


I appreciate that you are trying to help so thank you for that but please don't dig a hole for yourself any further.


May 25, 2015 at 02:18 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Digging and hole? What are you talking about. You are having trouble with how your images look posted to this site, and you're following the advice of someone who clearly doesn't know what the hell he's doing and worse, why. I gave you a solid suggestion and your response is that I'm digging myself a hole. Why don't you try posting a smaller photo and see what happens? Why don't you dupe your background layer at final res, apply USM at something like 75-100/.4/0 and see how that looks, then put on a layer mask, fill it with black and paint in the areas that need sharpening. Try to avoid fine diagonals like guitar strings, window frames, etc, as they tend to go jaggy, but to be certain, I don't have a pick or a shovel here, or even a backhoe.


May 25, 2015 at 02:31 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Mine looked mushy too.
At the same time I was wanting an online photo sharing site and decided to use Zenfolio. Now when I present here, I just post the Zenfolio links. Since then my FM images always look like they do in photoshop/LR/infranView. I don't need to do any resizing or extra processing just to present here. There are other similar hosting sites like Smugmug which should be able to do the same thing, but I have not used them.

David



May 25, 2015 at 05:52 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


dgdg wrote:
Mine looked mushy too.
At the same time I was wanting an online photo sharing site and decided to use Zenfolio. Now when I present here, I just post the Zenfolio links. Since then my FM images always look like they do in photoshop/LR/infranView. I don't need to do any resizing or extra processing just to present here. There are other similar hosting sites like Smugmug which should be able to do the same thing, but I have not used them.

David


Thanks for that David. I just signed up for a Photobucket account and posted a test (now deleted) where I had the same image from an FM upload and a Photobucket link. They were identical, so I don't think thats my problem. Good suggestion though so thanks for that.



May 25, 2015 at 07:55 AM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Peter Figen wrote:
I love it when video dudes tell you to do something without telling you why. It usually means they don't know, and probably shouldn't be doing the video in the first place.

Why WOULDN'T you use Unsharp Masking or Smart Sharpen when you have them available and use instead a sharpening method with no adjustability, but apply it twice on top of itself. Makes no sense.

Why also would you do your sharpening at 1.67 times your final resolution? Why indeed? Never a mention as to why. The only reason I can think of is that the final reduction
...Show more

Wow. Sorry my video seems to have offended you to such an extent. There are dozens, if not hundreds of different sharpening methods out there and this one seems to help quite a few people. However, I'm quick to admit it's not the only way to get a good looking web image. Sorry if the video came across as my "not knowing what the hell I'm talking about."

At any rate, the reason for the double sharpening technique is that it seems to give the image more fine sharpening detail than just a straight smart sharpen or USM technique. I've experimented with a lot of methods and when I stumbled upon this double-sharpen trick it seemed to work really good. As I mention in the video, this technique was basically what evolved from my playing with lots of different types of sharpening tricks over the years. The double-sharpen technique was not something I invented, only added to the workflow.

Also, I like the look of the regular sharpen filter for this, but USM would work too.

As of the 1.67 - that 1 2/3rds size ratio seems to work best. I've tried other ratios (double, 1 1/2, 1 1/3) and the 1.67 number seems to give the best "look" to my sharpening. I'm not a software engineer, so I haven clue why that number seems to work best, I only know that after a lot of testing I like the way it looks.




May 25, 2015 at 08:44 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Mnd1 wrote:
Thanks for that David. I just signed up for a Photobucket account and posted a test (now deleted) where I had the same image from an FM upload and a Photobucket link. They were identical, so I don't think thats my problem. Good suggestion though so thanks for that.


I know Zenfolio works perfectly. Can you demo it?
If still not looking the same, then your monitor off bad, or your calibration setup is off, I suspect.
You are welcome to email me a test image, I'll look at it, post it on my site temporarily, then onto FM on a thread of yours to compare.

David



May 25, 2015 at 09:00 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


dgdg wrote:
I know Zenfolio works perfectly. Can you demo it?
If still not looking the same, then your monitor off bad, or your calibration setup is off, I suspect.
You are welcome to email me a test image, I'll look at it, post it on my site temporarily, then onto FM on a thread of yours to compare.

David


Steve Perry has been very helpful and he suggested that I size images on here to 800px. So here's one I've been playing with as a test.








Maine Sunrise




May 25, 2015 at 09:26 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


It's a lot better using Steve's H-800 action rather than the H-1200 which I had been using. I think that part of the problem is Safari browser. If I zoom out so that the image is the same size as in Photoshop the two look pretty much the same.

Thanks for the suggestion Steve.



May 25, 2015 at 09:37 AM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Mnd1, the photo above that you posted looks great on my iPad with Safari. Your statement about the zoom level may be a clue to part of the issue. We can zoom in to see detail in our editing software, but that detail can be lost when looking at an image when not zoomed in. I see that on my desktop screen all the time. Image resolution out of my D800e, when the entire image is shown, is finer than the resolution of my monitor. So, in order to really see fine detail, I have to zoom in.

Thanks for posting Steve's video and thanks to Steve for creating it to help people. I am going to view it and give the procedure a try.

All that I have been doing, the lazy method, is saving files from LR and specifying a max file size, usually around 4,000kb. I also use a small amount of output sharpening for screen and usually save to sRGB. I will give Steve's method a try- it will be nice to have another method to save for the forum so that the images look better.



May 25, 2015 at 10:57 AM
Mnd1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Steves Photoshop actions are free so yes give them a try. They certainly helped me and if you don't have Steve's eBook I can heartily recommend it. It's superb advice at a very reasonable price.

http://www.backcountrygallery.com/secrets-to-stunning-wildlife-photography/



May 25, 2015 at 12:21 PM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Thanks! I will get Steve's ebook. it is always nice to get information like this.


May 25, 2015 at 03:57 PM
dgdg
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Here is the image using a link from my Zenfolio site.
800px wide.
I notice the image size is only 230 kb. That is kinda small for a landscape image.

Looking at this image on my computer using infranView, then on my zenfolio site, and then on FM they all look the same to me. Great colors and details. I suspect the main limitation is trying to make it larger given the small file size.

The question is, does my FM post look the same to you?

http://davidsphotography.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v141/p1203581855-4.jpg



May 25, 2015 at 04:33 PM
Mnd1
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


Thanks for the trial David. I really can't see any difference between the FM imported shot earlier and your Zenfolio version.

Mike



May 25, 2015 at 04:38 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Web Sharpening for display on FM Forum


"Wow. Sorry my video seems to have offended you to such an extent. There are dozens, if not hundreds of different sharpening methods out there and this one seems to help quite a few people. However, I'm quick to admit it's not the only way to get a good looking web image. Sorry if the video came across as my "not knowing what the hell I'm talking about."

Steve - It's the fact that you are giving advice without explanation. Do this. Do that. Do this again. If YOU don't know the theory behind what you're doing, then it's problem when people who really don't know what they're doing copy you. When you assume the role of the teacher, it's also incumbent on you to understand why you're doing what you're doing. Sorry if I came down too hard on you, but Mnd1 was certainly led astray.

Ironically or otherwise, it's good to know that my suggestion of a more modest pixel dimension seems to have cured his problem.



May 25, 2015 at 05:32 PM
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