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Archive 2015 · Not wide enough?

  
 
treebeard
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Not wide enough?


So I recently decided to test the real estate photography market and purchase the Nikon 16-35 f/4 VR lens to go with my D800. I did a shoot a few weeks ago and I thought 16mm was wide enough. I have a firm that saw my images and liked them but one of the agents did not think they were wide? So.....is an extra 2mm that much of a difference? I did not buy the 14-24 due to it's price and the size but I am wondering maybe if I should have? The first picture is one of mine and the next two is one of hers...she has no idea what camera or lens was used. It seems to me the difference is more with the spaciousness of the house she had photographed?

















May 24, 2015 at 09:19 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Not wide enough?


It looks like she shot in much larger rooms and not straight on. You can make wider shots by stitching with the camera levelled and in portrait orientation, I have shot rooms with a 28mm like this (don't have wider, I shoot fashion not interiors!)





I know you didn’t ask for critique but if you are genuinely trying for the real estate market beyond point ’n shoot shots do some work looking at good examples and practice - interiors are very hard to shoot well. In your example the lights are off, the verticals are not straight and typically rooms look best photographed into a corner - if you wanted the very ‘straight’ angular look the table/floor/windows all need to be shot straight on.

These two threads have lots of examples from professionals in this genre:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99472.180
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=75783.1800



May 24, 2015 at 11:18 AM
treebeard
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Not wide enough?


Mark_L wrote:
It looks like she shot in much larger rooms and not straight on. You can make wider shots by stitching with the camera levelled and in portrait orientation, I have shot rooms with a 28mm like this.

http://www.liddellphoto.com/iw/bathroom-1.jpg

http://www.liddellphoto.com/iw/bathroom-2.jpg

I know you didn’t ask for critique but if you are genuinely trying for the real estate market beyond point ’n shoot shots do some work looking at good examples and practice - interiors are very hard to shoot well. In your example the lights are off, the verticals are not straight and typically rooms look best photographed into a corner - if you
...Show more

I agree I was missing the lights and it was my first time doing it so I appreciate the comments. I agree with you about the rooms for sure.....thanks for the links as well! I believe now I know what you mean about shooting into a corner as well.



May 24, 2015 at 11:26 AM
Two23
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Not wide enough?


You have two issues going one. First, there is a lot of distortion in your shots. Probably not caused by the lens so much as by the perspective. I would suggest you buy a 24mm PC-E. You could then do lateral shift and stich two or three frames together. I think that would be better than just one frame from an ultrawide. I suspect that was what was done in the photo you liked.

Second issue is your lighting. You need to meter your flash so it matches the ambient light outdoors, in the window. I'll throw a third idea out as well. For this, I would have added a polarizer. A nice touch would have been to polarize the flash as well.


Kent in SD



May 24, 2015 at 12:24 PM
treebeard
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Not wide enough?


Two23 wrote:
You have two issues going one. First, there is a lot of distortion in your shots. Probably not caused by the lens so much as by the perspective. I would suggest you buy a 24mm PC-E. You could then do lateral shift and stich two or three frames together. I think that would be better than just one frame from an ultrawide. I suspect that was what was done in the photo you liked.

Second issue is your lighting. You need to meter your flash so it matches the ambient light outdoors, in the window. I'll throw a third idea out
...Show more

Very interesting comments...and much appreciated. I had not thought about the 24mm PC-E and your other 2 comments are spot on as well!! Thank you again.



May 24, 2015 at 12:35 PM
wembley
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Not wide enough?


The difference between your photo and the other 2 is not about how wide the zoom is, it is the basic requirement of shooting real estate.

#1 rule for RE work. Verticals must be vertical.

Do not shoot from eye level. Put the camera on a tripod. Shoot from about the mid-point height of the room. Do not angle the camera up or down.

There are other small details which you will soon learn (some have been mentioned here), but converging/diverging verticals are caused because you angled the camera and will not cut it in RE work.

A 16-35 is great for RE work. I just moved to a 14-24 from my 17-35 but one more time the lens is not the issue here.

Research, google, shoot and learn.

Cheers
Wembley



Edited on May 24, 2015 at 01:05 PM · View previous versions



May 24, 2015 at 12:44 PM
treebeard
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Not wide enough?


wembley wrote:
The difference between your photo and the other 2 is not about how wide the zoom is, it is the basic requirement of shooting real estate.

#1 rule for RE work. Verticals must be vertical.

Do not shoot from eye level. Put the camera on a tripod. Shoot from about the mid-point height of the room. Do not angle the camera up or down.

There are other small details which you will soon learn (some have been mentioned here), but converging/diverging verticals are caused because you angled the camera and will not cut in RE work.

A 16-35 is great for RE work. I
...Show more


Wembley, I did use a tripod but I DID NOT shoot from the mid-point height of the room as you suggested....DOH! I appreciate your comments as well! I have more to learn than I thought but that's OKAY.....



May 24, 2015 at 01:04 PM
Two23
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Not wide enough?


A 24mm PC-E is designed for this kind of shooting. With shift, you don't have to be at mid point. You simply shift the lens down. It's designed to keep lines straight. I used to do some real estate work back in the 90s, and used a 4x5 for it. LOTS of movements with that!


Kent in SD



May 24, 2015 at 01:15 PM
wembley
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Not wide enough?


The good thing is a couple of hours of research really helps.

Midpoint is not critical but a great starting point.

You just can't afford to tilt the camera down like you have, or up if shoot from a lower position.

This was from my 1st shoot about 6 months ago.
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s5N_CewkCdg/VGt3NbjlVlI/AAAAAAAAb5M/DRD5dQ6qBwc/s800/living%252520wide%252520view-2.jpg


And a recent shoot.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L8pZgQ39-4g/VWIVEK3MRrI/AAAAAAAAdYo/Eoh_HiYAJ1A/s800/DSC_0422_3_4_5_6_tonemapped%252520web.jpg


cheers
wembley



May 24, 2015 at 01:15 PM
wembley
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Not wide enough?


Two23 wrote:
A 24mm PC-E is designed for this kind of shooting. With shift, you don't have to be at mid point. You simply shift the lens down. It's designed to keep lines straight. I used to do some real estate work back in the 90s, and used a 4x5 for it. LOTS of movements with that!

Kent in SD


Kent. The 16-35 is great for this work and a 24 PCE is not necessary (although I'm sure it would be great too). The issue in the OP's image was not the midpoint (or lack of), but the fact that he tilted the camera down to create diverging/converging verticals.

The midpoint is a good starting point but is not necessary. He could have shot the same image level and it would have been improved enormously. When I shoot for builders portfolios I often shoot from a lower point to emphasize the builders work on the floors.

Cheers
Wembley



May 24, 2015 at 01:20 PM
treebeard
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Not wide enough?


wembley wrote:

The good thing is a couple of hours of research really helps.

Midpoint is not critical but a great starting point.

You just can't afford to tilt the camera down like you have, or up if shoot from a lower position.

This was from my 1st shoot about 6 months ago.
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s5N_CewkCdg/VGt3NbjlVlI/AAAAAAAAb5M/DRD5dQ6qBwc/s800/living%252520wide%252520view-2.jpg


And a recent shoot.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L8pZgQ39-4g/VWIVEK3MRrI/AAAAAAAAdYo/Eoh_HiYAJ1A/s800/DSC_0422_3_4_5_6_tonemapped%252520web.jpg


cheers
wembley


I see what you mean. I found out that the shots were with a 5D MkIII and a Canon 16-35 so pretty much the same setup that I had except for the brand. My mistakes are obvious though...



May 24, 2015 at 01:21 PM
wembley
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Not wide enough?


Here you go. Will save you sometime googling.

A great starting point for everything you might need to know.

RE Photography Tips

wembley



May 24, 2015 at 01:26 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Not wide enough?


You may know already but it is worth noting that the D800 (and prob most other bodies) have a levelling indicator which helps for this sort of work.

Spend a lot of time and practice on lighting. In my admittedly amatuerish bathroom example, the first shot is 100% natural light, the second shot facing the other way is 600ws of flash. Weird how often it takes so much work to make thing look natural.



May 24, 2015 at 01:52 PM
Two23
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Not wide enough?


For really critical work (i.e. paid,) I've found the built in levels in my D800E aren't really 100% accurate. I'm still using a torpedo for critical stuff. I level L/R across the tripod head and up/down against the front element of the lens. (X & Y axis.) I then simply shift my lens up or down as required.


Kent in SD



May 24, 2015 at 02:15 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Not wide enough?


The extra 2mm does make a significant difference for interiors. If you're planning to do a large volume of real estate shooting then the time saved buying a 14-24mm vs stitching a longer lens is well worth it. Here's a shot I took a few years ago with the D800 and 14-24mm @ 14mm. Happens to be a manually-blended HDR:

http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-DGKLj57/0/X2/i-DGKLj57-X2.jpg



May 24, 2015 at 02:42 PM
wileycoyote
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Not wide enough?


like mentioned above, and as discussed in your "Real Estate for FX" thread, its all about being square on. i don't use a tripod and haven't found them necessary for my needs, but i always pretty careful that the lines are parallel.

my last posted comment was: "as long as the sensor is always level in all directions, i'm happy. meaning if i aim slightly up or down i end up with leaning walls. best to just keep everything level, then rise/lower oneself to get more/less ceiling/floor."

i just stand on a chair, or squat down...

one more thing: when i changed from a 17mm (in FX) to a 14mm, it did make a big enough difference for me.



May 24, 2015 at 05:05 PM
Grantland
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Not wide enough?


snapsy wrote:
The extra 2mm does make a significant difference for interiors. If you're planning to do a large volume of real estate shooting then the time saved buying a 14-24mm vs stitching a longer lens is well worth it. Here's a shot I took a few years ago with the D800 and 14-24mm @ 14mm. Happens to be a manually-blended HDR:

http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-DGKLj57/0/X2/i-DGKLj57-X2.jpg


I concur . . . the extra 2mm does make a big difference.



May 24, 2015 at 05:58 PM
treebeard
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Not wide enough?


Ugh...you guys are killing me here with the extra 2mm......


May 24, 2015 at 06:18 PM
treebeard
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Not wide enough?


wileycoyote wrote:
like mentioned above, and as discussed in your "Real Estate for FX" thread, its all about being square on. i don't use a tripod and haven't found them necessary for my needs, but i always pretty careful that the lines are parallel.

my last posted comment was: "as long as the sensor is always level in all directions, i'm happy. meaning if i aim slightly up or down i end up with leaning walls. best to just keep everything level, then rise/lower oneself to get more/less ceiling/floor."

i just stand on a chair, or squat down...

one more thing: when i
...Show more

I never thought to lower the tripod up or down...I just angled the camera and that's when I screwed up!



May 24, 2015 at 06:19 PM
wembley
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Not wide enough?


There is no disagreement that from moving from 17 (or 16) to 14 helps and is an improvement but in this case the lens is not the issue. The 14-24 will not improve the image, but will cost a few hundred dollars more.
Here is a link with a visual of UWA field of views

Use what you have, learn the business and needs of shooting it, shoot it and improve. Then when you are making money from it then thats when to consider moving up with equipment.

Lots of people are getting by using far inferior equipment for RE work. Do i think they are very good? Doesn't really matter if agents are paying them for work. I see lots of people advertising themselves as RE photoographers. Yes they take photos of houses and interiors, but they have flash reflections, burnt out highlights, distortion, slanting horizons and converging verticals. If the client pays then they are a Real estate photographer.

cheers
wembley



May 24, 2015 at 06:32 PM
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