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Archive 2015 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR

  
 
benee
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Hi Everyone,

I am thinking about dipping my toes into medium format and it seems like a TLR might be a good way to start.

I would like the following a camera with the following criteria:

2.8 lens
Affordable ($200-ish)
(Somewhat) lightweight
Excellent IQ.

Honestly, I don't know that a camera exists that ticks all of these boxes. I've thought about a Mamiya C/C 220/C330, but those seem big and beastly, Price aside, a Rolleiflex would be the best option for me, but the budget just isn't there for a Rollei.

Am I chasing a Unicorn here, or is there some TLR gem I should know about?



May 18, 2015 at 11:23 AM
goosemang
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Can you lose a little light and get a yashica with a 3.5?

I have a Mamiya c220. It is kind of a big hunk of metal, but it does the trick for cheap. You can get different lenses too, if that appeals to you.



May 18, 2015 at 11:57 AM
gyoung143
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


I don't know of another tlr with a 2.8 lens. I used a Mamiya c330 for quite a while and was happy with the 2.8/80. Of the wideangles the 55mm is quite a lot better than the 65mm but you probably will need to get the lens set up for your particular body, so that the focus is right as register is more critical.
With the Rolleis, the 3.5s with the Planar are generally reckoned to be better than the 2.8 versions, and I found it so, not enough room for a decent size front element so its a compromise compared to the 2.8/80 Planar for the Hasselblad.
With Yashicas, go for the Yashinon 4 element lens which is much beter than the 3 element. We had about 20 of these for student use and they were very variable even when new, some good, some poor.
You will have fun seeing the world flipped left to right, it takes a bit of getting used to!

Gerry



May 18, 2015 at 12:08 PM
benee
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Thanks for the replies!

^^^^ Ok, so this is probably a stupid question, but is the difference in bokeh *that* much more noticeable between a 3.5 and 2.8 on medium format. I am basically looking to experiment with square format, shallow DOF portraits.



May 18, 2015 at 01:06 PM
gyoung143
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Probably better off with a Mamiya and 135mm for portraits with shallow dof. No idea about Bokeh with any of them I'm afraid, I've never been interested in it!

Gerry



May 18, 2015 at 01:12 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


The Mamiya's are beasts. For $200, I doubt you will find any Planar/ Xenotar Rollei's at 2.8 or 3.5. My favorite TLR for size, weight, cost would be the Schneider Xenar (like a Tessar) based Rolleicords. Great image quality stopped down and super light weight/stealthy to carry around (unlike a Rolleiflex which will weigh about as much as a Blad with WLF and 80 lens).

Btw/ trivia, the Hasselblad 80 Planars are actually compromised with regard to image quality compared to the versions on the TLR's as the Hasselblad design had to allow for a longer flange focal distance to account for the larger reflex mirror (though I prefer the look from the blad version myself). So, the 80 Planar for the Hasselblad is a slight retrofocus design and not a true/ pure Planar. For the Hasselblad, the "True" Planar is the great 100mm lens.

Edited on May 18, 2015 at 01:23 PM · View previous versions



May 18, 2015 at 01:20 PM
benee
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


gyoung143 wrote:
Probably better off with a Mamiya and 135mm for portraits with shallow dof. No idea about Bokeh with any of them I'm afraid, I've never been interested in it!

Gerry


OK, thanks... looking into possible Mamiya/Pentax SLRs as well....



May 18, 2015 at 01:20 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Have Rolleiflex 3.5 Tessar, never used it much, but it didn't seem sharp wide open.


May 18, 2015 at 01:53 PM
gyoung143
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Yes I think its expecting too much for a 4 element standard to be really sharp at max aperture. I have used most of them, usually stopped down to 5.6 or further.
The best I have used of this type of design has been the leica 50mm Elmar, but not relevant here.

Gerry



May 18, 2015 at 02:12 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


I agree the Tessar's are at their best stopped down a little. For portraits though, it may not matter as much and the bokeh can look really nice imo(not as harsh/ distracting as a Planar), even at F5.6 on 6x6.


May 18, 2015 at 02:16 PM
benee
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Aaaah this is tough. Debating between the Yashica Mat and a Pentax 645. Very different beasts, I know....


May 18, 2015 at 02:25 PM
telyt
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


The Minolta Autocord has a decent lens, though it's only f/3.5


May 18, 2015 at 02:49 PM
gyoung143
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


I would go for the Pentax (or a Mamiya) 645, miles better cameras than a Yashicamat.

But not a tlr though....

Gerry




benee wrote:
Aaaah this is tough. Debating between the Yashica Mat and a Pentax 645. Very different beasts, I know....




May 18, 2015 at 03:13 PM
pingflood
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


gyoung143 wrote:
I don't know of another tlr with a 2.8 lens.


The Olympus Flex A was available with a 75/2.8 but that one is obscure enough that you are unlikely to encounter one in the wild.



May 18, 2015 at 03:29 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Maybe this is obvious, but if the primary purpose is for portraits, then with a TLR, you're running straight into the parallax problem when working at near distances... Here a SLR camera will be a better WYSIWYG solution, though not sure if you can find anything for $200...


May 18, 2015 at 03:30 PM
pingflood
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


rscheffler wrote:
Maybe this is obvious, but if the primary purpose is for portraits, then with a TLR, you're running straight into the parallax problem when working at near distances... Here a SLR camera will be a better WYSIWYG solution, though not sure if you can find anything for $200...


Could definitely score a Kiev 88 for that kind of money, though you'd want to check it out carefully since they have a tendency to suffer from light leaks, film spacing issues and other fun things.

I seem to recall the Bronica S2 getting awfully cheap too, but haven't kept up with that market and am not too familiar with them.



May 18, 2015 at 03:32 PM
benee
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


rscheffler wrote:
Maybe this is obvious, but if the primary purpose is for portraits, then with a TLR, you're running straight into the parallax problem when working at near distances... Here a SLR camera will be a better WYSIWYG solution, though not sure if you can find anything for $200...


That is a GREAT point (the parallax issue). Hadn't thought of that. Duh!

I've seen some Mamiya 645s with the 80 2.8 between $200 and $300. Similar with the Pentax 645. Its sounding more like that is the way to go. Thanks all for the advice FM Hive Mind!



May 18, 2015 at 03:42 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


Since you're aiming for shallow depth of field, Mamiya also made an 80/1.9 for the 645 system... something to save up for if you get one. I have no experience with it.


May 18, 2015 at 04:12 PM
JohnJ
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR


There is about 1/2-2/3 stop between F2.8 and F3.5 (http://photocornucopia.com/1046.html). It may not be worth worrying about.

Re the M645 option, the 2.8/80 is very nice, sharp wide open and very cheap. The 1.9/80 is better for your purpose (I have both) but possibly too expensive. The bokeh from the 1.9/80 is a little on the funky/harsh side behind the focus plane, it is not creamy/smooth. The M645 is compact and easy to use, especially with the prism, but easier to focus with the ground glass waist level finder.

My C220 is possibly my favourite camera but I just can't be bothered with film any more so it gathers dust. It's quite large though but maybe that doesn't matter to you.



May 18, 2015 at 04:18 PM
gyoung143
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Am I chasing a Unicorn? Affordable 2.8 TLR




rscheffler wrote:
Since you're aiming for shallow depth of field, Mamiya also made an 80/1.9 for the 645 system... something to save up for if you get one. I have no experience with it.

I remember the tests and the 1.9 was marginally better than the 2.8 from memory. We had both amongst the stuff we had for student use and I dont remember any problems with either

Gerry



May 18, 2015 at 04:38 PM
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