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Archive 2015 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)

  
 
bvais
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


I promise this is the last time I use this title, I just wanted to have some continuity with the previous thread

As per usual, please check out my BLOG if you want to see how I got from 'before' to 'after'.

I thought I'd jot down a few words about how I approach what I do.

There’s this old adage that painters add, while photographers remove. Painters start with an empty canvas and they add their artistic vision to it, whereas photographers start with a full scene in front of them and they have to decide what elements to omit based on their artistic vision.

Well… almost.

What I end up once the shutter is triggered is just another canvas. A canvas that allows me to now add my interpretation of the scene, to modify the scene based on what I saw with my mind’s eye.
This means that even though the scene may be a blazing sunset after a storm etc. I’ll still consider it simply a canvas. Having mother-nature deliver a good opportunity doesn’t mean my work is done for me. There is way more than meets the eye to a good photo, one that engages the viewers and keeps them within the frame. Nothing can be left to chance, and all elements must work together. There are also shadow to light plays, cool to warm, high contrast to low contrast transitions etc. These seldom exist in the ‘wild’, and when they do they need to be brought out. Same for compositional aspects: lines don’t always go where you want them, reflections aren’t always clear, items in the frame are made too small or too large by the lens, the moon isn’t always where you need it. Will that stop me from trying to achieve what I saw? No.
This doesn’t mean I won’t strive to capture the best canvas possible. Notice I didn’t say ‘photo’. I’ll still try to be out there when the light is at its best. I’ll still try to find compelling compositions. But when they are not there I will not let this discourage myself, if the scene in my mind demands my attention. Not everything I shoot will see the light of day. I came back from Antarctica with over 8000 photos. I worked on 100. Do you know how many made it to print and on my website? 8.

At the end of the day, for me it boils down to this… artists create. They don’t document, they create.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. The people that don't want to do this kind of processing will most likely say "and that's precisely why I refuse to do this", the people that have been doing this for ages will say "well, doh, obviously", and the ones in between will feel drawn by one camp or the other.
I'd like to ask for one thing though, and that's to be civil. Obviously people feel very strongly about what they do, but there are multiple ways of getting a point across. If you feel you gotta gotta gotta set someone "straight" there's always 'private message', or if that doesn't make you feel good, by all means, a duel would be quite entertaining. If you choose tripods as weapons I'd go with RRS, they're solid :-D

Update uploaded 800px versions for both before/after





After







Before



Edited on May 11, 2015 at 02:21 PM · View previous versions



May 11, 2015 at 12:46 PM
dgdg
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


Nice composition.
I think with better light on a different day this would be a jaw dropper. The socked in sky makes it tough, but it's impressive what details one can bring out in post.

David



May 11, 2015 at 01:12 PM
bvais
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@dgdg Yeap, agree :-).
I'd go back in a heartbeat, but tickets to Norway are kind of expensive these days...
Also, the fact that there aren't any clouds at all sort of bothered me for a while. The more I worked on it the more I started to appreciate that negative space though.



May 11, 2015 at 01:22 PM
Ben Horne
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


Looks good to me. The final photo feels very true to the scene, and you were just making up for the fact that the camera couldn't see both the sky and foreground. I appreciate the fact that the moment wasn't manufactured in post, and the result has a very authentic feel.

My only suggestion would be to perhaps have a bit more blue in the foreground, and especially in the reflection of the mountain. I would think it should show a bit of blueish tone there since it's reflecting the light from the sky. Without the blue in the reflection, the foreground looks sepia, and the background looks natural.

That being said, I agree with David that this would be better with more appealing light. How much time did you have to explore and photograph this particular location? My approach is to find a killer subject, then ask myself when the light will be best --- and return when it's best to photograph it. This way, I can walk away from a scene knowing I have both an ideal subject, and ideal light.



May 11, 2015 at 01:25 PM
bvais
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@Ben Horne I had basically 1h, with no coming back.
I use the same approach as you when I'm in control, but in this case I had to make do with what was there.



May 11, 2015 at 01:29 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


First off thanks for posting this and continuing the discussion. Its never-ending but still in my mind a healthy debate.

I have a hard time judging the posted photo because its posted so small - its like a large thumbnail. But a do love the leading lines in foreground (what is this - water, sand?) to the mountain which I also find striking. I personally like the moody misty light and think it adds to the scene. I expect viewed larger would increase my admiration.

I need to go on a small tangential rant - I fail to understand why there is such resistance (not aimed at you) to not posting pics at a decent size where we can see detail and appreciate the picture. This is not an iPhone or iPad site and we are longer bandwidth restricted like 10 years ago. Also pics from large megapixel sensors struggle when they are choked down to such a small size. Why not just limit the file size - like maybe less than 400 KB? Okay - off rant and back to discussion.

There has been criticism that landscape pictures being manipulated is unethical unless you spell out everything you have manipulated. If you are a reporter reporting a scene as "that's the way it was" then I can understand the argument. If you are trying to depict something atheistically pleasing or trying to make the sale then IMO pictures need to be manipulated - be it by using a specialized lens (UWA or telephotos are usually not a realistic perspective), moving branches out of the way (physically or digitally) pulling out details in shadows (I rarely see a SOOC pic that shows highlights/shadows as my eye saw the scene) or enhancing colors (is using a polarizer unethical??).

So in my mind the rest is in the eye of the beholder as to what is atheistically pleasing. Some like what I call over processed pics that are unrealistically saturated or HDR processed. Some (not me) like this style of PP. I usually ignore such posts unless they are asking the question what would you do to make this more pleasing. There are those that like to add the orton glow - especially to foliage. Is this realistic - nope. Is this atheistically pleasing - for me usually.

This is why for me photography, especially landscape, is an art. The choosing of lens, aligning the composition, stacking pics and PP that picks and chooses what gets altered from what was captured in RAW is the artist in action.

All that to say I love your pic. The only thing I question is what would an 8x10 crop do to this pic?

Dave



May 11, 2015 at 02:08 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


I like the cool tones in this pic Bruno. I also agree with Dave about the (unecessarily) very small image size restriction here on the landscape forum.


May 11, 2015 at 02:11 PM
bvais
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@Dave i uploaded bigger versions, hope this helps. as far as the 8x10 goes it would completely eliminate the sky above the mountain (assuming I keep the entire FG), and doesn't leave a lot of breathing space there. I was going more for a Michael Kenna feel :-D


May 11, 2015 at 02:24 PM
bvais
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


Gary Clennan thanks!


May 11, 2015 at 02:25 PM
LSExplorer
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


It's a cool image you captured and processed. Composition-wise, it is strong too to lead my eyes from foreground all the way to the background. The scene looks cool and misty to my eyes. The details you recovered in the foreground is amazing! Great work!

To me, Ben's suggestion to add more bluish color in the foreground is quite reasonable. However, I did not witness the scene at that moment.



May 11, 2015 at 02:41 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


bvais wrote:
@Dave i uploaded bigger versions, hope this helps. as far as the 8x10 goes it would completely eliminate the sky above the mountain (assuming I keep the entire FG), and doesn't leave a lot of breathing space there. I was going more for a Michael Kenna feel :-D


The bigger version helps - thanks. I guess I should have elaborated on my 8x10 thought. It would have been about 2/3 taking off the sky and 1/3 off the foreground with a slight warp correction pulling the foreground so that its still corner to corner. But then that could be seen as cheating. Anyway - it was more thinking out loud rather than a suggestion.
Dave



May 11, 2015 at 03:51 PM
bvais
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


'Ya mean like this? Hmm I kindda like that... Definitely puts more emphasis on the mountain.








May 11, 2015 at 04:02 PM
dbehrens
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


bvais wrote:
'Ya mean like this? Hmm I kindda like that... Definitely puts more emphasis on the mountain.


Yep - you captured my thinking. I do like it! Sometimes I feel the 8x12 is just a little too tall for a portrait layout . . . and hope to see more of your Antarctica pics!
Dave



May 11, 2015 at 04:34 PM
gordon l
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


The picture tells me a great landscape story. Nice shot and processing.


May 11, 2015 at 05:47 PM
Ben Horne
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


The new crop is a definite improvement. It helps to balance the elements better. I've found that vertical 2:3 shots can often times look a bit odd since they have a tendency to pull the foreground and background apart. Dave's suggested crop helps build a stronger connection between the foreground and the mountain in the background.


May 11, 2015 at 07:14 PM
killersnowman
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


i really dont care how you got to this image or how it was made, in the end it comes down to "do i like it?". for me the answer is NO. the image is already practically a monochrome image but you left some faint blue in the upper half making it seem like two disjointed images rammed together. embrace the monochrome and cut out that blue, it does nothing to help the image.


May 11, 2015 at 11:33 PM
96Brigadier
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


Personally I like it. You've taken a before image that had nothing going for it and turned it into something that looks good to my eye.


May 12, 2015 at 08:45 AM
bvais
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@gordon thanks!


May 12, 2015 at 01:12 PM
bvais
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@Ben Horne yes, I'll stick with the 4x5 crop. I'll play around with a bit of cool color in the mid-ground as well, see what it looks like. tnx!


May 12, 2015 at 01:14 PM
bvais
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Hate it.. or not (part 2)


@LSExplorer tnx for the kind words!


May 12, 2015 at 01:15 PM





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