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Archive 2015 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions

  
 
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I've been taking photos of people for about 8 years now, and I've learned a few things slowly along the last few years. Mostly studying faces at a range of angles. I've read over and over about certain rules of body language and posing, and I can see when someone obviously looks hunched or tensed most of the time, or when a joint seems very unnaturally positioned, and sometimes even when there's a lack of balance in a photo.

And then there are the hundreds of vague compositional flaws that will tell me the photo is OK but not great, without me understanding why.

I can see that something needs changing...but I don't know how to fix it.

I can see my own posed, planned photos continuing to follow a very narrow range of effects, angles and positions, rather than spreading out and expanding.

When viewing someone's website, I can more clearly distinguish (more than a few years ago) a few things that a photographer would probably know to adjust or make sure is correct, like extremity positions, nose angle, light angle, facial expression and direction of gaze, etc...but even though I see these as generally effective or not in the viewed images (depending on how they look to me), I don't know how to make them better.

I often wonder if I have certain metaphorical switches turned off in my brain and I can't turn them on. Ones dealing with creativity; expanding upon ideas; recognizing pinpoint causes, effects and solutions.

And then of course I have the memory blanks all the time during shoots. The things I do understand when not in the fray go out the window as soon as I start working. I end up working mostly on combination of impulse and a few rote ideas I've been using for years.

It sucks, I want more.

I've had my photos given some critiquing from some of the great photographers on this forum, and they tear my stuff apart very easily. They see things I would never identify, perceive consequence I don't notice, understand perspective I'm oblivious to at my best. It's depressing and makes me feel like I should just leave everything to those who can actually do it.

But right now, I can't do that. I have too much stake in the role of photographer at this stage in my life.

I have a few plans, but there are limits to what I have access to (because of finance mostly). There are specific people who I believe see and understand certain things to such a degree as to be able to communicate them to me, and I'd like to have access to those persons and their understanding. Money is a great tool for obtaining knowledge sometimes, but so is proximity - many of the people I would call upon for knowledge are far away from me. There are lots of photographers in Vegas where I live of course, but I could only consider a handful of them to have some definite mastery of things I want to learn. Mentors, I really like mentors. I wish I had a few great ones.

I haven't posted like this in a LONG time. It's because wedding season is resuming, I'm about to shoot another one today, and every year I go back and realize how small and limited my skillset is in this field and how I really, desperately need to learn better how to control and use the elements of composition and human form.

In this mess of thoughts, has anyone found something that has worked for them? Really, deep-down learning of the finer points of composing, framing, and posing? Imitating is shallow and like being given a fish without being taught to fish. I can imitate, but it falls short of the original intent by a mile because I don't understand all of the reasons a photo looks good.

Anything that works for you?



Apr 25, 2015 at 09:22 AM
JakAHearts
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


http://www.amazon.com/Picture-Perfect-Practice-Self-Training-World-Class/dp/0321803531/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429972681&sr=8-1&keywords=PICTURE+PERFECT+PRACTICE


Apr 25, 2015 at 09:38 AM
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I've read a significant amount of that book. it may have helped incrementally, but I find books are less effective tools for me to learn from than are people. If it worked for you, that's good...


Apr 25, 2015 at 09:41 AM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


You write a lot of posts like this, mostly about posing. I'm thinking it's about getting attention more than help.


Apr 25, 2015 at 10:14 AM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Ian Boys wrote:
You write a lot of posts like this, mostly about posing. I'm thinking it's about getting attention more than help.


That's the kind of response that I have received at least a few times in every one of my posts, and which commonly prompts me to stop posting again for another several months.

The last post "like this" I wrote was quite a long while ago, about 4 months.

I write these introspective posts acknowledging my own limitations around the time when I start feeling the pressure again, which is during photography seasons. I ask for suggestions and thoughts, I get a lot of feedback ranging from "you're fine" to "you need professional help" and a select very few people actually post something genuinely helpful, which I try to absorb.

Kind of like sifting through a bunch of coal to try to find a tiny diamond. That's how the process seems to be whenever I write a post like this. Because of the massive negative feedback I often receive, I tend not to be able to tolerate starting one of these threads very often.



Apr 25, 2015 at 10:21 AM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


just take the pictures. it's not that hard.


Apr 25, 2015 at 12:39 PM
GoodEgg
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I'm with you, form. You must've read my mind, I should charge you with plagiarism. When I feel like I haven't made the desired progress, I go back to my favorite folders and use the slideshow function to look at all the images I post to photography websites. Make a mental self-assessment -- what are my trends? What categories do I gravitate towards -- people, places, patterns? Which do I need to work on? Try self-assigning in your weak areas and just go out and blast away without chimping. Shoot for yourself and not others. Keep on.


Apr 25, 2015 at 12:56 PM
gregfixit
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I'm not sure if you are looking for general advice here or specific steps to improve your photography. And I'm also not sure how you would feel receiving advice from someone who is less experienced than you. But here we go.
I am probably a better coach than a photographer. I have been coaching children and adults for about 20 years and much of what you say I have heard from people I coach.

I have had students who need very little coaching. They instinctively know what to do and they are always finding ways to win. When they are motivated, they advance rapidly. When they lack motivation, they need me to help them GET motivated. In the photography world they would be the ones shooting big weddings for a lot of money and throwing away shots that other photographers would love to have in their portfolio.
Most of my students though are not so talented. They want to win and they work very hard, yet they struggle to win matches on tournament day. We spend hours working on fundamentals and trying to teach basic strategy and even though they seem to get it, making it happen on game day is their greatest challenge. In the photography world these are the ones shooting 90% of all weddings. They deliver lots of good images and a few times a year they have an image that is good enough to be put on their web page.

So here comes the advice part....
Make sure your fundamentals are solid. If you struggle to find new and creative compositions than it is likely that your understanding of what makes for a good composition is lacking. Look at your photos in terms of fundamentals. Is your exposure always good? Is your light where it needs to be? Is your subject at ease? If you are getting these things correct then you have earned the right to begin working on advanced technique.

Practice, Practice, Practice. If you want to be good, practice. If you want to be great then practice a lot. Put most of your practice into fundamentals and then put some more time into advanced techniques. World class players spend 90% or more of their time practicing so the 10% of the time they spend in competition is maximized.

Write down what it is you want to achieve. It helps you stay focused on your goals. If you need to bring a list of shots you want to take when you are on a job. Take the list out and read it. You will never take your photography to the next level if you don't try. And remember that it will not happen overnight. If you start to try new things don't give up. They will improve as you practice them more.

Best of luck.
Greg



Apr 25, 2015 at 10:39 PM
elliotkramer
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Basically you are saying that you are doing a job professionally for which you have a very limited skill set. I assume you are also charging money for your efforts. I don't think you are taking your clients best interests into consideration. I can see why your posing as a professional photographer would be quite stressful. I suggest you stop taking people's money until you are better at it.

And your "threat" to "stop posting again for several months" is childish. If you believe that the forum feels threatened by that statement, then you must be quite narcissistic and maybe you are just seeking attention.

I wish you well regardless, and hope that you can get the help you need in this forum or elsewhere.



Apr 26, 2015 at 12:23 AM
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


gregfixit wrote:
I'm not sure if you are looking for general advice here or specific steps to improve your photography. And I'm also not sure how you would feel receiving advice from someone who is less experienced than you. But here we go.
I am probably a better coach than a photographer. I have been coaching children and adults for about 20 years and much of what you say I have heard from people I coach.

I have had students who need very little coaching. They instinctively know what to do and they are always finding ways to win. When they are
...Show more

A helpful post, thank you, good points of course. It's true the fundamentals are lacking for me, except that my missing fundamentals are less about how to get a subject properly exposed and more about when to underexpose/overexpose for effect, how to manipulate the figure, and how to build a proper composition with elements that make sense and fit together well. I would like a mentor but have never had one. It would be nice to have one who understands the things I do not and who can guide me.



Apr 26, 2015 at 10:43 AM
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


elliotkramer wrote:
Basically you are saying that you are doing a job professionally for which you have a very limited skill set. I assume you are also charging money for your efforts. I don't think you are taking your clients best interests into consideration. I can see why your posing as a professional photographer would be quite stressful. I suggest you stop taking people's money until you are better at it.

And your "threat" to "stop posting again for several months" is childish. If you believe that the forum feels threatened by that statement, then you must be quite narcissistic and maybe you
...Show more

Basically I charge near bottom barrel prices because I know that I'm not very good, but I believe I provide a significantly better end product than the bottom of the barrel photographers in town. My goal with that is actually to take my clients' best interest into consideration by giving them a more affordable option than the more expensive photographers without forcing them to settle for the worst photographers instead.

And I'm not threatening to stop posting again, I'm stating what has happened before and that I am not strong enough to endure lots of comments clearly meant to be unpleasant, impolite, disrespectful and absolutely (and by all means most importantly) unhelpful. I've had quite enough of those and I never give them out myself, and I don't personally feel I deserve them. However, I ALWAYS get some of them with every single introspective, self-evaluating post.

If you don't have anything nice to say, you are not obliged to say anything at all. If you don't want to be helpful, you don't have to post. There are no expectations except courtesy and some semblance of respect. I would think that's an appropriate protocol for posting on the forum anyway. Does that sound fair?



Apr 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I have no frame of reference. I went looking for images by you but what I found was mostly gear head type posts.

This thread begs the question of why you do what you do, especially photos for pay. You don't sound like you are having much fun.

I've taught photography courses off and on for over 35 years. There are those who have innate ability and there are those who will never get past just basic snapshots. I encouraged my students to have fun. I encouraged them to constantly grow and improve, even if it was baby steps. I also warned them to not get obsessed or ask of themselves more than is reasonably attainable.

Take a hiatus from all photography that makes you feel presssure. Go out and rediscover the joy of photography. If you can't find it, perhaps another type of recreation would suit you better.



Apr 26, 2015 at 11:17 AM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Or just post your website or any pictures you've taken. But you won't.


Apr 26, 2015 at 11:30 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


I'm not even sure that this is something that can be taught specifically. What I've seen in many of your previous posts is an obsession with blaming some shortcoming in your equipment for what is lacking in your images. That would lead me to agree with the advice above for you to concentrate on your fundamentals until you're at a point where you just don't ever think about them again. Once you get past the point of worrying about all the details of getting the correct exposure and focus then the details of composition, body positioning, positive and negative space relationships, and a million other details will come to you more naturally. Or at least to the limit of your current ability.

Eight years is a very short time to be taking photographs of people. I've been doing this for over thirty years now and I can remember specific shoots where I seemed to make some sort of breakthrough in the process, and that type of personal experience gave me more confidence going forward. I also remember a more recent shoot where the people being photographed couldn't understand why I was concentrating on their leg positions and how it related to the guitar in the shot - until they saw it a few minutes later. I can't tell you why I did what I did, just that it was an intuitive process. You may or may not be able to develop that process for yourself. I think you mainly shoot weddings and senior portraits, from what I recall. Mostly people who have very little experience in front of the camera. It might help to do some test images with experience models, male and female, who themselves know how to pose. They can teach you a lot - if you let them.



Apr 26, 2015 at 12:56 PM
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Equipment comments I've made have been around either exposure flexibility (in case of underexposures) or autofocus acquisition, usually involving tracking or low light focusing. I've never associated these with something lacking in my overall performance as a photographer, only limiting certain on-the-fly images that I can get under the more demanding circumstances described.

Those are a different set list of photos than the intentionally creative ones about which I describe my own personal limitations in achieving in threads like this one. I never blame equipment for not being able to think of or create interesting images, and I typically don't even mention the equipment used. I only shoot weddings.

I forgot my website wasn't on my profile anymore. It used to be, until about a month ago. One of my more recent photos is actually in someone else's thread on the wedding forum.



Apr 26, 2015 at 01:38 PM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


OK, fair play. Your photos are OK, I'd say. Nice rich colours especially.

As you say, they're not stand out gorgeous, most of them, but they're not bad by a long stretch. Better than average, I reckon.



Apr 26, 2015 at 02:33 PM
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


And that's why I price myself where I do and why I feel I do still provide a semblance of service for people who can't afford expensive photographers. But that's not what I'm looking for here, I'm looking for things that worked for other people to help them improve or deal with those issues I've described with understanding the specific points that I tried to explicitly describe.


Apr 26, 2015 at 02:34 PM
Ian Boys
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Well my tip is to worry about posing less and shoot laughter. Shoot smiles and happy faces. That's what people want to see - that they had a happy wedding.





Apr 26, 2015 at 03:05 PM
Bryston3bsst
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions




"more about when to underexpose/overexpose for effect, how to manipulate the figure, and how to build a proper composition with elements that make sense and fit together well."

This is what photography is. Knowing what to do when and how to do it. I'm kind of surprised, sighting your lack of confidence, that you have the audacity to charge for your services. If you don't feel you're very good then how is it that you can charge for your service?

This whole post seems very odd to me. You say you post pictures and they are sharply critiqued, you get bummed out and stop posting for months? That's just plain silly. If that is indeed the case it seems to me you need help well beyond what you're going to get from an internet forum. Perhaps you need to seek some professional help.

Heck, none of us likes to have others look at our pictures and pick out all of the shortcomings. But keep in mind the venue you're in here. Keep in mind that all of the critiquing is simply others' opinions. We all shoot differently, we all like and dislike different things. Know too that your pictures might be seen by people all over the world with vastly different backgrounds and tastes. Of course there are going to be people that say they don't like your pictures. Does that mean you're a failure. Hell no. It simply means your picture didn't strike something in them. Certainly you've looked at others pictures and seen things you don't like, right?

Stop blaming yourself and shoot. Stop blaming your equipment and shoot. Experiment. Try different things and fail. There is no greater teacher than experimentation and failure. Screw the critics. Look at others photos that you like and figure out what they're doing and emulate that.

Read my favorite quote by someone I admire greatly, Teddy Roosevelt, a president with some balls.

"“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”



Apr 26, 2015 at 04:09 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · easy to see flaws, hard to see solutions


Thanks for the link. I think you do fine work, much better than average. You have a good eye and I think you do well capturing the moment. I think you will naturally progress to the next level.

Ease up on yourself. I think you have a good grasp of the areas where you'd like to improve. Be conscious of those areas and work on them with every shoot, but don't obsess. I think you hold yourself and your equipment to a very high standard. Just let it flow.

Less navel gazing, more shooting! Most of all, have fun!



Apr 26, 2015 at 04:28 PM
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