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Archive 2015 · WA654 - "From Below"

  
 
beavens
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · WA654 - "From Below"


So this is for the WA that is being voted on right now and the shot is getting no love at all - I'm wondering if the pic doesn't fit the theme or just plain sucks.

This is underneath a highway/bridge.

Thanks!

Jeff







Apr 24, 2015 at 08:10 PM
Mongrel
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · WA654 - "From Below"


Jeff-it does fit the theme, it does not suck... It meets the theme, the composition is good, the processing works, etc.

I just checked the submissions. You got my vote. Not the strongest "under the bridge" shot I've seen, but honestly, against the current competition, certainly worthy of more consideration that you've received in my opinion. Not sure why, but not the first time something like this has happened. You would think that before any other consideration nailing the "theme" would be paramount. Certainly before name/popularity and even before technical excellence in my opinion (which unfortunately don't mean much-lol). With this in mind there are a whole bunch of images that I rule against all the time for this reason. Like...really? "From BELOW?" (insert assignment theme here). Things that make you go...hmmmm... lol.

Only thing I can think of may be affecting it is the fact that there have been several "under the bridge shots" recently (I think the last 2 or 3 challenges have had one?).

Hang in there man...I have a feeling there will be another challenge soon.




Apr 24, 2015 at 09:16 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · WA654 - "From Below"


I'd suggest that the extraneous information is stealing the thunder of the symmetry a bit to weaken it somewhat.

Personally, I am wanting to see more to the right, less to the left.



Apr 24, 2015 at 09:28 PM
beavens
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · WA654 - "From Below"


Tony - thanks for the feedback! I really hope this didn't come off as a pity party - just looking for any kinda comments. Always wanting to know the "why".

Kent - thank you for your comment. To me, the left fills the scene without stealing too much of the attention. Instead of pushing the symmetry vibe I wanted more of a fat left side drawing into the converging pattern of the bridge - if that makes sense.

Jeff



Apr 24, 2015 at 10:01 PM
AuntiPode
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · WA654 - "From Below"


I'd agree the details detract some. I don't check the WA regularly, but from what I've seen, I'd also suggest it's rare a B & W image wins many votes.


Apr 24, 2015 at 10:03 PM
beavens
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · WA654 - "From Below"




AuntiPode wrote:
I'd agree the details detract some. I don't check the WA regularly, but from what I've seen, I'd also suggest it's rare a B & W image wins many votes.


Damn! Well, I'm stubborn and will just have to produce better mono stuff in that case.



Apr 24, 2015 at 10:05 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · WA654 - "From Below"


Nicely composed. Fits the theme. Excellent BW conversion. Pulls you into scene. Staying below as opposed to from below?
Anyhow, no shame here. More than a solid shot.
Good luck.
Scott



Apr 25, 2015 at 02:27 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · WA654 - "From Below"


beavens wrote:
Kent - thank you for your comment. To me, the left fills the scene without stealing too much of the attention. Instead of pushing the symmetry vibe I wanted more of a fat left side drawing into the converging pattern of the bridge - if that makes sense.


Makes sense ... and I see the convergence you are referring to. But, here's (in my not so expert WA opinion) my .02 @ that. You are talking about a sublime aspect of the image that in all my attempts to present mono ... and even more so mono + sublime / nuance ... I can't recall it ever really being realized with any magnitude of recognition regarding the sublime aspect of things.

One thing that I find, is that as the shooter, we often times see things with a different mindset than our audience will. Typically for the general masses, we have to present things a bit more directly than we might otherwise think we would need to. Plain language ... most folks don't like to "think" ... at least not THAT MUCH when you start going into sublime and nuance territory.

Personally, I'm good with it ... but as advice for a WA (as a competition) or other appeal to the masses, I'd probably (at least look at) look at a slight move to the right (if you have the space). Not too much, but just "enough" ...

BUT ... that being said, let me say this.

The WA is part of Fred's design to help us grow. It is a SELF-CHALLENGE assignment from which we embrace challenge and opportunity to grow ourselves. To that aspect, combined with my incessant belief @ "your pic" / "your message" ... I think that your image stands fine as is, given that it is by intent that you desired to include that convergence as part of your message. The amount of weighting you gave to that part of your message is 100% to your discretion.

When we consider the WA ... three things (maybe four) typically come to mind.

1) Did I get votes @ how much love
2) Did I challenge myself to grow in the process of the challenge / assignment
3) Did I send the message I desired to send

4) Was my message received

Early on with the WA, I was focused on #1. Then I came to realize that the real purpose was #2, and I began to judge myself by #3.

Depending on who you are constructing and delivering your message to / for ... will depend on how #4 bears out. The audience of the WA is but one audience. The audience here in PC is but another audience. Sometimes we shoot for an audience of one (i.e. ourselves), other times we shoot for a "mass appeal" audience.

The one thing that getting "no love" from the WA does (for me) is to raise a few questions.

1) Is the image weak
2) Is the image too sublime
3) Is the message too subtle
4) Would the message be received differently by a different audience

5) Do I need to revisit the strength of my message delivery

I find that the more I go into the sublime ... the less "love" I get from fhe general population ... even friends, family and mothers start to fall off the fan club.

In the end, there is a degree of relativity involved regarding the relationship between audience and message. As the sender of the message, it is our responsibility to send a message that can be heard by our intended receiver of that message.

Whether we are using verbal communication or non-verbal communication ... sometimes we deliver messages that everyone can hear @ "FIRE !!!". Other times we send messages that are only for a selective audience to hear @ "Can you keep a secret?"

Where any give message (or image @ visual / non-verbal message) resides in that spectrum will always vary. But, if I whisper "fire" and no-one responds, then I may want to adjust my delivery to "FIRE !!!". But, if I am talking about "the boss is gonna fire someone", the less prominent delivery can be very appropriate.

From images to speeches to songs to ... how we craft our messages is a component that becomes increasingly more refined as we progress. There is a myriad of songs that I never understood the sublime message until much later in life. Just because I didn't hear the message when I first heard the song ... well, that wasn't because the song was poorly written. It was just a disconnect between the delivered message and my ability to fully receive it. In that regard, I grew to be able to better receive the message.

So, coming back to your image (i.e. your message) ... the challenge the WA presented before you has resulted in your image. In review of #1 - #3 ... and #4 in the first set, how does that correlate to #5 in the second set.

My .02 is that after going through both sets of questions ... you'll stand pat on your image (i.e. message) as is. I'm good with that. In fact, I'm VERY GOOD with that, as I think it tells markedly about your growth and progression toward a paradigm shift of understanding the fullness of our beloved craft beyond making "pretty pics" into the realm of delivering non-verbal communication messages ... the power of which is not always realized by all shooters, nor by all audiences ... not unlike the kindred written verbal messages.

Short answer ... if you're good with it ... so am I. My comment was targeted more toward how I'd construct a more "obvious" message for the WA ... I've never received much love for my sublime / nuance images either, yet they are some of my very favorites that I will retain "as is" despite "no love".

It's your pic ... it's your message.



Apr 25, 2015 at 06:33 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · WA654 - "From Below"


A couple possible crops to help with some of the "extraneous" I was referring to ... i.e. less detractors = more obvious @ sometimes viewers need a bit more help than we (as the creator) might otherwise think (i.e. single direction @ not split message). Giving folks more to think about ... well, that typically works better for folks who like to think about things ... others, not always so much.

Note the difference in how strongly your eye might be drawn to the "paw print" (mass & tonal value) and the foreground grass (mass) in the original version. The reduction of those areas (via the crop) changes the weighting of the bridge / convergence. Those were a couple of the "extraneous" aspects that I was thinking of.

Either way ... I dig the lines and the convergence and think you did a very good job with the assignment. Not only did you meet the theme, but your utilization of composition and technical brings your message of "convergence" to us as viewers. Admittedly, I was a bit "pre-programmed" toward symmetry (or thinking that others might be), as the convergence is more sublime by comparison.

Long story, short version ... nice work, I'm diggin' it ... but you asked @ why "no love" in the WA. Imo, those are two very different

BTW, the more I look at this ... the more I like it, and the more I see how much there is to like. For me, that can be the mark of good work (the heart of a craftsman) ... but, those slowly developing appreciation images typically don't fare as well in "competition" or "mass appeal" settings, imo. Some things catch our attention right away (ooh, ahh @ good for competition) ... others have to wait for us to catch up to them. I think you may be in front of your audience a bit on this one. Be patient and rest in your good work, while some of us catch up.

Sometimes, it can seem a bit lonely when you're out in front or on a different path from the crowd. But, what really matters ... are you advancing in the direction that you are desiring to go? From what I can tell, I gather that you are. Whether or not the crowd follows or catches up ... carry on to where your heart guides you. Leaders don't follow the crowd, that's what politicians do when they can't get the crowd to follow them. Craftsman follow their heart and produce ever increasingly refined good works along their journey ... hmmm, ever wonder @ how the term "journeyman" came to be (i.e. the journey of a craftsman en route to becoming a master of his craft).

Carry on, carry on.














Apr 25, 2015 at 06:49 AM
beavens
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · WA654 - "From Below"


sbeme wrote:
Nicely composed. Fits the theme. Excellent BW conversion. Pulls you into scene. Staying below as opposed to from below?
Anyhow, no shame here. More than a solid shot.
Good luck.
Scott


Cheers Scott - I appreciate the comments!

Kent, WOW. I'll remember what you said for some time - you really dropped some knowledge on me. I guess I'm getting wrapped up too much in the validation game. As a self-taught amateur I find questioning myself is the norm, even when I *think* I've got a pretty good bead on something.

That will probably always stick with me, but hopefully will get better with time.

Until then, keep seeing and keep shooting.

I see what you're saying about the extraneous content, but I can stand to lose it.

Thanks again,

Jeff



Apr 25, 2015 at 09:06 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · WA654 - "From Below"


Welcome to my world Jeff!
I've gone many times without a single vote. But, as Kent so excellently stated, we should use these assignments as a learning tool to help us develop our skills beyond our normal comfort zones. When I bomb on an entry I try to understand what I did wrong and how I can improve upon that particular theme. The assignment "Back lit" was a perfect example of this. I bombed on my entry but 3 days later I found and shot a few more flowers that were much better examples that what I had entered. I learned a great deal from that one and every other one that I've attempted.

I'd like to also acknowledge that I'm not in the same league as you are when it comes to skills behind the camera and having a good eye for compositions. So it's probably easier for me to except a lack of support (votes) because I know I have a long ways to go in this journey.

Tony & Kent nailed several issues that can occur in the WA & MA. Many recent bridge entries is one of the reasons I was thinking maybe yours wasn't seeing any love.

I have seen it many times where folks enter a fantastic image that not only doesn't meet the assignment but was not even taken for the assignment. A recent win was of an image that was extremely similar to one that was posted a month ago in one of the presentation boards. At first this kind of stuff bothered me but knowing that it's just reality and that popularity also plays a big factor I am very happy if I can at least get a vote or two.

With all that rambling said.
I like your entry but I know it's not your best as you've recently post a similar image (from below) that I find more visually appealing and I suspect it would have been a stronger player. I commend you for using the WA & MA's for the true purpose they are meant for. And by the very fact that you are questioning the issues of your image is a testament that Fred's assignments are doing exactly what they are intended to do. Help us grow and learn.

Heck... This next assignment (games) is going to be a hard one for me. I might no even be able to come up with anything but this to me, is the fun part. Then we gotta figure out how to capture what ever it is we come up with. That's the part I usually fail miserably at.

Keep shooting
Keep learning
And have fun!



Apr 27, 2015 at 09:21 AM
beavens
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · WA654 - "From Below"


lighthound wrote:
Welcome to my world Jeff!
I've gone many times without a single vote. But, as Kent so excellently stated, we should use these assignments as a learning tool to help us develop our skills beyond our normal comfort zones. When I bomb on an entry I try to understand what I did wrong and how I can improve upon that particular theme. The assignment "Back lit" was a perfect example of this. I bombed on my entry but 3 days later I found and shot a few more flowers that were much better examples that what I had entered.
...Show more

Thanks for the reply, Dave!

You make some really great points here and I'll definitely keep them in mind going forward.

Gotta to shake the competitive BS and embrace the growth factor!

Jeff




Apr 27, 2015 at 09:45 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · WA654 - "From Below"


Yup!


Apr 27, 2015 at 09:49 AM
AuntiPode
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · WA654 - "From Below"


Another factor is personal taste. Sometimes an image will click very well for a few folks, but not resonate with the majority. It's just they way things go. Sometimes I quite like several WA entries only get a few votes. Many times the winner is an image I wouldn't pick. Art is personal. Consensus is something else.


Apr 27, 2015 at 04:32 PM





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