Archive 2015 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

friscoron
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

gschlact wrote:
Steve Wylie's summary is so true, hence Paul's comment about the trouble of cross posting to more than one forum. The commenters from the Sports Corner had a different ”lens” (pun intended) for their critiques where each photo must stand by itself whereas I agree that when taking into account the vested audience intended for Ron's work, it would be appreciated with strong regard. I bet Evan's family is very happy with the full volume Ron produced. What a great assignment.

Understanding the different way the Sports Corner folks look at pictures helps.

I've actually created an 86-page photo album for each member of the team and coaching staff, and managers. After the team banquet tonight, I go to work on Evan's album. I think it took me all 31 games to get one really good shot of everyone on the team, other than Evan.

Apr 09, 2015 at 02:43 PM

friscoron
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

Thanks, Steve.

Steve Wylie wrote:
I suspect that one of the main reasons for the difference of opinion between the Sports shooters and the People shooters here is that for the sports guys, the image has to stand on its own and compete with many others for space in publications, whether web, print, or other client use. On the other hand, Ron's task was to follow this player for that school, and the intended audience already has a vested interest in the subject. These photos, regardless of whether they're technically excellent or not technically excellent, have meaning for their intended audience. So in that...Show more →

Apr 09, 2015 at 02:44 PM

Steve Wylie
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

I've actually created an 86-page photo album for each member of the team and coaching staff, and managers. After the team banquet tonight, I go to work on Evan's album. I think it took me all 31 games to get one really good shot of everyone on the team, other than Evan.

That's the goal, right there. That's a labor of love, regardless of what the "clients" have paid to get this product. I do a lot of this kind of thing, and the rewards are more tangible than just economic. And lest there be criticism that work like this devalues the economic value of photography, I really don't give a rat's ass. They're not going to get this anywhere else.

Apr 09, 2015 at 04:08 PM

gschlact
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

Ron,
I would like to ask a question purely as a professional reference and in light of the changing landscape of professional photography. Can you please describe the commercial agreement and contract terms for this Project? I ask because of so many different ways professionals charge for projects and Agreements. Please share what you are comfortable with for this project, i think many of us would find it very helpful. I realize that Evans family is "very well to do" so i believe the value of the contract would have affluent fair market value.

1. Did you have a contract?
2. What was the agreed upon "output" of the services that were contracted? What were you obligate to provide the Family, Team, and Coaches
3. What Use Rights were conveyed?
4. Did you contract for all games or for a set amount of games?
5. What rights did you retain for selling the images in digital or print form?
6. How did you handle "model" Releases
7. How did you structure the contract for payment? By total hours (actual or estimate) by the entire job? If by the entire job, what hourly rate did you attempt to achieve (including travel, pre/game/post game, editing and other meetings/ related team events attended?
8. What hourly rate do you expect to actually achieve? (or is it too soon to say?)

Sometimes these projects become a very hybrid type of quote despite trying to stay with the traditional "production / creative" charges + expenses + Licensing use rights. I had to do something creative for a local theatre wanting catalog / documentation / images of about a dozen shows / concerts.

Thanks in advance,
Guy

Apr 09, 2015 at 05:38 PM

friscoron
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

Guy,

This was an unusual situation, not by any means a normal situation. I'm not that comfortable sharing the specifics of the arrangement publicly because it can be easily misunderstood. My obligation was to Evan's father, my client. But trust me, at the banquet last night, the team and coaches were very well taken care of through Mr. Boudreaux's generosity and I was a very popular person. A number of the parents and I went out to a pub after the banquet and they just kept looking through the 86-page album at the Boudreaux table where I sat (every player got an album, but the parents hadn't really seen it yet). It was a really fun experience.

There were usually two or three, and sometimes 8 or 10 photographers at his games, as you know, so there are lots of pictures of Evan out there. I'm not really that interested in selling the pictures I took of him, but I can if I want.

I was paid by the game and then hourly for the editing. I was very well taken care of, in large part because as you said, his family is not hurting and they are very appreciative and generous. I'm also already locked in for both boys' weddings.

As a side note to a fellow Chicagoan photographer, I also shoot for the DePaul dance and cheer team, and it amazes me going from an environment like Lake Forest vs. Stevenson or Notre Dame or Highland Park or whatever, and then go shoot a DePaul game. Fewer fans, fewer photographers, at a D1 game. Granted, DePaul's been struggling lately, but it cracked me up.

If you want to contact me privately, I might be able to share more info.

Ron

Apr 10, 2015 at 08:40 AM

elekstro23
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

Wow.. as recent D1 college athlete these posts hit home. Our conference championship game which we lost was documented in a less professional, but impactful manner. I have all of the shots saved, and when I look back at them I am immediately in that moment, feeling those feelings all over again. I would imagine this photo series will have the same impact on those players. Thanks for sharing..

Apr 10, 2015 at 09:36 AM

friscoron
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · The Agony of Defeat - A Human Interest Series

elekstro23 wrote:
Wow.. as recent D1 college athlete these posts hit home. Our conference championship game which we lost was documented in a less professional, but impactful manner. I have all of the shots saved, and when I look back at them I am immediately in that moment, feeling those feelings all over again. I would imagine this photo series will have the same impact on those players. Thanks for sharing..

Thanks! I really appreciate it. Glad you have your pics, you'll really appreciate them 10 and 20 years from now when you're sharing your experiences with your kids.

Apr 10, 2015 at 10:20 AM

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