Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

Archive 2015 · Unintended Consequences

mikekeating
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Unintended Consequences

Hello All,

Got some strange happenings this weekend. First off, let me say that I normally shoot sports (and not even all that great) and I took some images this weekend of my daughters soccer game. I shared the images with her teammates (apple photo stream) so they can post to snapgram and instachat . . .whatever.

Anyway, I got some requests from parents the next day for senior pictures . . .and they made one of my images the new "cover" for the team. Pretty cool.

So, I am not a pro photographer, but I am hoping to move that way in the coming years (just not an option right now), but I want to give it a try in this "low-risk" environment.

Here is what I was thinking. Do the first senior pic for almost next to nothing, with the understanding that I am new to portraits and this will be an experiment and I can use the images to show the other parents. In return, if they are not happy they are not out any money. Plus, I get some experience.

What do you think?

Oh, and anyone know anything about Senior Pictures

I actually looked at all the senior picture threads yesterday and today and there are some amazing images.

Thanks,

Mike

Mar 16, 2015 at 12:52 PM

friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Unintended Consequences

Hey Mike,

I like your approach to this. IMO, you shouldn't charge people pro rates unless you know you can consistently deliver up to their expectations. The way you're going about it is win-win for them and you.

I would make sure you have in email or writing exactly what they will receive from you as part of this deal. I would also come up with pricing in case they want to purchase a canvas print/wall art, or album, or additional prints.

Have fun with this!

Ron

Mar 16, 2015 at 01:27 PM

jefferies1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Unintended Consequences

Senior photo shoots are a one time event in their life. Not something to play with. Sure everyone is happy at first until they see real quality then the thrill of cheap prices is soon lost and major disappointment takes over.

Practice a lot before doing important shoots is my opinion.

Mar 16, 2015 at 02:42 PM

mikekeating
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Unintended Consequences

I plan of practicing a ton this week with my kids to see what does and does not work.

If I don't think I can deliver I won't take it. I was kind of shocked and honored at the same time.

Mar 16, 2015 at 02:45 PM

dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Unintended Consequences

Mike,
This kind of response to you photos is always flattering. I think you are taking a cautious approach.

I suggest you try to arrange to do a test shoot of one of your daughter's friends.

As I think you suspect, Senior Portraiture can be involved. You have to deal with the technical aspects of the shoot, but you also have to deal with interacting with your subject and directing them to get good poses. That requires good people skills and the ability to make them feel at ease.

The trial run before you agree to tackle more work will give you an idea of your comfort level. Asheville and the surrounding area as beautiful, so you should be able to find plenty of locations to shoot. You can do a lot with natural light and a simple 5-in-1 reflector. Unless you already have it, I suggest holding off any purchases of lighting equipment. Since you shoot sports, I'm assuming you have some long lenses. They will serve you well when shooting the portraits.

Avoid flash on camera at all costs. I see very little flash on camera that looks good Philip Flitz (pfiltz), who used to post here, is about the only photographer I've seen who did a good job with on camera fill flash.

How are your post processing skills? You'll need to be pretty proficient to do retouching that looks natural.

Mar 16, 2015 at 02:57 PM

benee
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Unintended Consequences

jefferies1 wrote:
Senior photo shoots are a one time event in their life. Not something to play with. Sure everyone is happy at first until they see real quality then the thrill of cheap prices is soon lost and major disappointment takes over.

Practice a lot before doing important shoots is my opinion.

Ummmmm no. Weddings are a one-time event that you cant afford to screw up. A portrait session is re-doable.

Yes, of course, practice. The OP sounds like they are being reasonably cautious and considerate in their approach. Kudos!

Edit to add: I agree with the idea above about doing at least one test session free of charge for a friend.

Mar 16, 2015 at 03:46 PM

cwebster
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Unintended Consequences

Never practice on paying clients.

If you need the practice, do a couple of practice sessions first at no charge.

If you charge, no matter how much, the expectation is that you are a pro, and must deliver like one.

<Chas>

Mar 16, 2015 at 04:16 PM

gene2632
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Unintended Consequences

The one major draw back to working for cheap to get experience and exposure is you are establishing that you will work for cheap. You really need to consider what your costs are, equipment, time, overhead including insurance and the cost of getting to where you are going before you think that making an "easy" $50 is a good thing. It is great that people like your work but if you are going to do this for a living, you need to approach it as a business as well as an art.

Mar 16, 2015 at 04:39 PM

Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Unintended Consequences

IMO there is no benefit to charging 'a little'. There is often times a value imbalance between you and the client, ie. paying $100. for a photographer might seem excessive to a lot of clients at first, but it's a mere pittance to a pro photographer who is trying to run a business and make ends meet.

Where you are, there is nothing wrong with shooting for free, since you are new to portraits in general. Shooting sports is completely different, you don't direct, you don't choose the venue, etc. If you don't know where to start, take a golden hour walk with the family, finding good places to shoot along the way. You should be able to take in a wide view of an area and find good places to shoot, considering aspects like lighting, background, etc. Practice directing during the shoots, because the majority of the time, that's what you'll be doing.

Mar 16, 2015 at 06:52 PM

nolaguy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Unintended Consequences

This. This. And this.

The moment you start accepting payment, no matter how little, client expectations often change and your homeowner's policy no longer covers your gear (generally speaking) - and as noted, it can be a challenge to raise your prices when you feel the time is right.

Take all the sessions you can handle, make it clear they are complimentary and you're building your portfolio, get model releases signed at the session, improve your photography and people skills along the way, and if you don't already have a well-oiled workflow (that includes cropping, exposure and color correction, and at least basic blemish removal, etc) and a process for backing up and managing your files, create and refine one.

Then (as Chas notes) process and deliver like a pro. If you take forever to deliver the images, you'll quickly get a reputation for that regardless of the fact that it was free.

Good luck,

Chuck

cwebster wrote:
Never practice on paying clients.

If you need the practice, do a couple of practice sessions first at no charge.

If you charge, no matter how much, the expectation is that you are a pro, and must deliver like one.

<Chas>

---------------------------------------------

gene2632 wrote:
The one major draw back to working for cheap to get experience and exposure is you are establishing that you will work for cheap. You really need to consider what your costs are, equipment, time, overhead including insurance and the cost of getting to where you are going before you think that making an "easy" $50 is a good thing. It is great that people like your work but if you are going to do this for a living, you need to approach it as a business as well as an art.

---------------------------------------------

Access wrote:
IMO there is no benefit to charging 'a little'. There is often times a value imbalance between you and the client, ie. paying $100. for a photographer might seem excessive to a lot of clients at first, but it's a mere pittance to a pro photographer who is trying to run a business and make ends meet.

Where you are, there is nothing wrong with shooting for free, since you are new to portraits in general. Shooting sports is completely different, you don't direct, you don't choose the venue, etc. If you don't know where to start, take a golden...Show more →

Mar 16, 2015 at 07:23 PM

mikekeating
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Unintended Consequences

All great points. Thanks.

Mar 16, 2015 at 09:26 PM

jefferies1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Unintended Consequences

Guess it depends on the area you live in. In my area many are one time shoots because people move away and seldom have time to re-do because of mistakes. Not top mention the cost of hair and makeup can be high. My clients look at these as a serious shoot. Yours might not.

Mar 17, 2015 at 10:05 AM

stevez32
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Unintended Consequences

Mar 17, 2015 at 10:26 AM

Access
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Unintended Consequences

stevez32 wrote:
If a portrait session is a one time event, then I wonder what would not be considered a one time event?
IMO this is a good policy to follow always, not just in photography but in all things.

If belief is a tool, then by believing that we will never get this opportunity again, we will try to do our very best job right then and there. A little bit of stress or pressure when we are doing the job is far better than any regret you will feel once the job is done if it is not completed to even your own satisfaction.

Even if a re-shoot is possible, considering that during the shoot only hurts you. Not to mention, I've found the practical considerations of a re-shoot are often just not feasible, whether due to scheduling, client already found someone else better, cost to your reputation, etc.

Also to the OP, if you do end up doing this shoot, or even just the practice shoots you do with your family, post them here and ask for criticism. I can't say I've always agreed with the critiques given on this board, but it's always been helpful in improving when I have posted my work here.

Mar 17, 2015 at 12:46 PM

stevez32
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Unintended Consequences

Access wrote:
IMO this is a good policy to follow always, not just in photography but in all things.

If belief is a tool, then by believing that we will never get this opportunity again, we will try to do our very best job right then and there. A little bit of stress or pressure when we are doing the job is far better than any regret you will feel once the job is done if it is not completed to even your own satisfaction.

Even if a re-shoot is possible, considering that during the shoot only hurts you. Not to mention, I've found...Show more →

Sure, do your best, seize the day, every moment counts, etc. etc. But to say that one thing is a one time event implies other shoots are somehow less important or less worthy of professional consideration causing a tiered ranking system. Of course, if you just strive to do your best always then there isn't much else to be said. To me it could be summed up with "be professional" when this is your business, but I suppose for some, it may be useful to do some mental gymnastics to place heightened importance on some shoots if that is what is required to respect other people's time.

Mar 17, 2015 at 01:40 PM


FM Forums \| People Photography \| Join Upload & Sell

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.