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Archive 2015 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY

  
 
sbeme
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


I am always happy to have thoughtful critique. And its always easier to accept when someone recognizes the challenge taken on or the best elements of an image and couples that with useful suggestions.

I spend far more time on Critique than here. And while there are only a handful of folks that routinely do as much nature photography as I do there, I have learned alot on that forum, as well as by emulating the work of others here.

There is something differently culturally about a presentation board and a critique board. On Critique, participants know that will have more specific feedback more consistently, although sometimes with opposing suggestions. And those that ask specific questions usually will get help on that as well. On presentation boards it can feel a bit more uncertain what to do, say, how to respond to a less than strong image if critique is not being requested. Some don't want it. Some do. But I don't think there is an implicit let alone explicit understanding that it is to be expected.

At any rate, I would encourage folks to come over to Critique to share your images, offer your skills, and to direct others where you think there might be some value had. I will continue to cross-post. Often after vetting an image among my Critique friends. And I welcome critique and any and all images I post here and on every board. Great way to learn!!

Scott

Edited on Feb 28, 2015 at 05:47 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2015 at 05:16 PM
sbeme
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


KCollett wrote:
Well Ted, you started discussion on a complex topic.

Maybe there should button to select "Critique Me". When selected, it could pop up a few basic factors to rate, and a field for leaving written comments.

Ken,
I like the Critique Me button. I would ideally like to lead to critique on each board. But I also feel the Critique Forum is underutilized.

Scott

I certainly don't have a definitive answer, but I've discovered I sure like to ramble!

Cheers!

Ken

Edit: Excellent response Karl! Wish I saw it prior to typing up my windbag version.






Feb 28, 2015 at 05:20 PM
unclechuck
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


sbeme wrote:
I am always happy to have thoughtful critique. And its always easier to accept when someone recognizes the challenge taking on or the best elements of an image and couples that with useful suggestions.

I spend far more time on Critique than here. And while there are only a handful of folks that routinely do as much nature photography as I do there, I have learned alot on that forum, as well as by emulating the work of others here.

There is something differently culturally about a presentation board and a critique board. On Critique, participants know that will have more specific
...Show more

Any thoughts + or - on dual posting to N&W & Critique for those who want CC?




Feb 28, 2015 at 05:45 PM
sbeme
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


Curious what others think. I cross-post many images. Often the Critique folks help recognize that I need to put finishing post-processing suggestions. Sometimes they catch an image I am too attached to. And that doesn't really cut the grade.

I think there are pluses and minuses. When some one offers critical advise on Nature I am appreciative and feel it can be particularly useful, coming from someone with more expertise in that area. But more time, attention can be given to the smaller number of carefully evaluated images presented on Critique.

Here is my latest X-Post. On Nature with this thread on Critique which helped me to more fully develop my image. BTW, sometimes I ask for specific help on Critique. Sometimes I merely post, looking to see what areas of improvement or problems an image elicits with a critical eye.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1350602

Scott



Feb 28, 2015 at 05:50 PM
Ted ellis
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


Karl Witt wrote:
Hmmmm, interesting topic Ted

Offering good critique is an art of its own. The one giving the critique must have an understanding of the 'style' the photographer has adopted in order to 'properly' critique his or her work.

Good critique comes with a great deal of experience and confidence but at times is more of a 'second opinion' and that sometimes makes the photographer re-think the posting. At that point the photographer either has confidence in the original post or the critique opens up unseen potential and has them thinking a bit outside the normal...............that can bring good things
...Show more

Karl, you helped me grow in my early days of photography and ya' still do but I am going to disagree with the highlighted above especially when a photographer, a budding photographer has yet to develop a style. Other than that, we have yet to sip the fine single malt together.

Ted



Feb 28, 2015 at 06:12 PM
eyelaser
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


When I post on the landscape forum, I get people with a landscape photographer's eye commenting...and I've become intimidated and so I don't post there hardly at all anymore....and on this forum I get people who understand N&W....I'm not sure that cross posting serves a purpose...if you ask for critique here you ought to be able to get, as Mick would say, what you need. Critiquing ought to be part and parcel of the forum...if you ask for it. Asking for it up front makes sense, and doesn't dissuade those who just want to post for the sake of showing their photos posting theirs.
Eric



Feb 28, 2015 at 06:14 PM
sbeme
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


I don't really disagree with you Eric. I agree that having each forum provide critique is useful and offers some specialized level of expertise and observation.
But on Critique we all stumble back and forth about the best way to offer critique to maximize its usefulness, diminish an authoritarian "this is the correct way" role (although there is probably some place for that), and to respond at the level and in the mode that is most likely heard and appreciated by the OP. A tall order and critiqueing critique is not unreasonable!

My point: I agree learning to critique is itself a task, although some are naturally better than others. Good to have as many people give and receive, refine their skills in this area if they have the interest.

Scott



Feb 28, 2015 at 06:56 PM
unclechuck
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


eyelaser wrote:
When I post on the landscape forum, I get people with a landscape photographer's eye commenting...and I've become intimidated and so I don't post there hardly at all anymore....and on this forum I get people who understand N&W....I'm not sure that cross posting serves a purpose...if you ask for critique here you ought to be able to get, as Mick would say, what you need. Critiquing ought to be part and parcel of the forum...if you ask for it. Asking for it up front makes sense, and doesn't dissuade those who just want to post for the sake of showing
...Show more

Great insight ! So much for the push-button solution



Feb 28, 2015 at 07:03 PM
Imagemaster
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


unclechuck wrote:
Any thoughts + or - on dual posting to N&W & Critique for those who want CC?


I feel the post should be on one or the other simply because comments on the Critique Forum may be harsher, yet the comments will still appear on the N&W Forum.

For someone that really needs to hear CC, the Critique Forum seems more appropriate.

It is often a shame that some people feel they must CC on this forum when a poster does not ask for it. I know there are many, many lurkers that would like to post, but simply are afraid to because they do NOT want any CC. They simply want to share their images.

There are also many "nice shot" comments that are only made in return for someone saying the same thing about your images. Some people seem to think that just because they complimented your shots that you are obligated to make similar comments about their shots.

There is also the option everyone has of making the CC by PM.

Then there are the positive comments, or lack of any truthful comments, made simply because such people sometimes then get flamed for simply expressing their opinion. We all have different tastes

Since a lot of people would prefer to CC anonymously, perhaps it would help to have a DISLIKE button in addition to the LIKE button. Or maybe an anonymous 5-star rating box.




Feb 28, 2015 at 07:06 PM
sbeme
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


Even on Critique there are so many more lurkers. I often worry we intimidate the onlookers and sometimes turn people off with our (helpful?) fetishistic tendency to nit-pick on Critique. But we aren't that bad!!

Tony, I think the PM idea is a great one, possibly underutilized? "Saw your image on NW and I have some ideas? Can I share?", etc etc

I have appreciated it each time someone was kind and generous enough to thoughtfully send a note, the option for further input.


Scott





Feb 28, 2015 at 07:12 PM
Ted ellis
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


Imagemaster wrote:
I feel the post should be on one or the other simply because comments on the Critique Forum may be harsher, yet the comments will still appear on the N&W Forum.

For someone that really needs to hear CC, the Critique Forum seems more appropriate.

It is often a shame that some people feel they must CC on this forum when a poster does not ask for it. I know there are many, many lurkers that would like to post, but simply are afraid to because they do NOT want any CC. They simply want to share their images.

There are also
...Show more

Thanks for your input Tony.



Feb 28, 2015 at 07:14 PM
sbeme
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


By clarification, cross-posting doesn't have to include comments from the other forum and I agree Tony, Critiique feedback could come across as harsher, 'though hopefully it is just more detailed.
When I cross post I put the image, sans comments, on a second board.

Scott



Feb 28, 2015 at 07:40 PM
Imagemaster
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


sbeme wrote:
By clarification, cross-posting doesn't have to include comments from the other forum and I agree Tony,

Scott


No, but it does place the comments on both forums the way it is set up now. e.g.:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1350404?b=2

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1350404



Feb 28, 2015 at 09:31 PM
birdied
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · CRITIQUE: No photos; SUMMARY


I want to thank everyone of you for your replies, your points of view.

Most of my adult life I have been involved in creative endeavors from music (playing, singing, song writing), portrait/figure drawing, pottery, sculpture (wood, ceramic, bronze) and now photography.

Each genre involved critique. Critique was hard for me to accept in the early days but, I could not have progressed without it. Critique was and still is a driving force for me to improve, to expand my vision. IMO no art form can progress or improve without constructive criticism.

I am truly sorry if some have been/were offended by my critiques on NW. Such was never intended, I felt terrible. My offering critique only showed I cared.

In the future I will only give critique when a poster asks for critique. Easier for me, easier for everybody. Life goes on and everyone is happy.

In the future when I am given critique I will comply with a redo of each and every image.

Thanks again

UT



Not only are you a wonderful photographer , but a kind and generous man.

Birdie



Feb 28, 2015 at 10:31 PM
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