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Archive 2015 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights

  
 
henryp
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Canon USA says do not use AA lithium batteries in any Speedlite or Macrolite products and compact battery packs: http://bit.ly/1wrQj0T

Henry Posner
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B&H Photo-Video



Feb 26, 2015 at 10:53 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Thanks for the heads-up Henry. For those who use the popular Eneloop rechargeable batteries, they are Nickel Metal Hydride and don't fall under this advisory.


Feb 26, 2015 at 11:01 AM
Aaron D
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


I wonder why...

Li-Ion and Li-Po are low internal resistance, thus allowing huge current discharges. I would think this would be ideal for a flash...

Then again, maybe that large discharge is more than the flash can handle?

Possibly no need for charging a capacitor in future flashes. LiIon and LiPo, being able to discharge such large currents, could possibly mean no need to wait for a flash to "charge" between flashes.

My electronics knowledge is a little rusty and outdated. Maybe someone more knowledgable can chime in on this.



Feb 26, 2015 at 02:29 PM
jamato8
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Going way back, from what info I have, they have always said to not use them. I use eneloop.


Feb 26, 2015 at 02:48 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Aaron D wrote:
I wonder why...

Li-Ion and Li-Po are low internal resistance, thus allowing huge current discharges. I would think this would be ideal for a flash...

Then again, maybe that large discharge is more than the flash can handle?

Possibly no need for charging a capacitor in future flashes. LiIon and LiPo, being able to discharge such large currents, could possibly mean no need to wait for a flash to "charge" between flashes.

My electronics knowledge is a little rusty and outdated. Maybe someone more knowledgable can chime in on this.


Assuming we are talking about the L91 or similar AAs, they are primary LiFeS2 rather than rechargeable lithium ion cells of various types.

EBH



Feb 26, 2015 at 09:57 PM
erikburd
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


I've had no problems with Eneloops, even with heavy usage. No heat problems for me.


Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM
Gerry Szarek
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Thank you!


Feb 27, 2015 at 05:45 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Not foreseeing this issue is a bit lame of Canon engineers.

Or is it?



Feb 27, 2015 at 06:08 AM
JimmyJames
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


I don't get this at all.


Feb 27, 2015 at 08:33 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights




Edited on Feb 27, 2015 at 04:42 PM · View previous versions



Feb 27, 2015 at 08:38 AM
charlesk
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Wow, glad I happened in here today. I sometimes use lithiums when I forget to recharge my NiMHs.

Aaron D wrote:
I wonder why...


Voltage most likely. New lithium AAs are in the 1.75V to 1.8V range, which can mean close to a full volt above alkalines when you are using 4 of them.



Feb 27, 2015 at 08:45 AM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


According to page 8 of my 430EX II manual, lithiums can be used. Such is also stated in my other Speedlite manuals.


Feb 27, 2015 at 12:25 PM
RogerC11
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


jcolwell wrote:
What's not to get? It's a product advisory.



He probably means that he "doesn't get" the science or reasoning behind it.



Feb 27, 2015 at 12:38 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Gochugogi wrote:
According to page 8 of my 430EX II manual, lithiums can be used. Such is also stated in my other Speedlite manuals.


I've been using Energizer Lithium in my guns for years, never had an issue or any signs of warming up.



Feb 27, 2015 at 12:44 PM
Aaron D
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights




charlesk wrote:
Wow, glad I happened in here today. I sometimes use lithiums when I forget to recharge my NiMHs.

Voltage most likely. New lithium AAs are in the 1.75V to 1.8V range, which can mean close to a full volt above alkalines when you are using 4 of them.


Ah...yes! Thats right! I forgot all about their Vmax being more than standard alkaline, nicd and nimh batteries.

This would indeed be why, Im sure.

Been using Tenergy NiMh in my 580 since I acquired it. Nobody should have any issues with Alk, NiCd or NiMh.



Feb 27, 2015 at 01:01 PM
Access
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


Aaron D wrote:
Li-Ion and Li-Po are low internal resistance, thus allowing huge current discharges. I would think this would be ideal for a flash...

Then again, maybe that large discharge is more than the flash can handle?

Possibly no need for charging a capacitor in future flashes. LiIon and LiPo, being able to discharge such large currents, could possibly mean no need to wait for a flash to "charge" between flashes.

My electronics knowledge is a little rusty and outdated. Maybe someone more knowledgable can chime in on this.


The lithium-metal primary (single-use) cells are not the same as Li-Ion or Lithium-Polymer type batteries. In the latter two, under normal operation, the lithium exists only in ion form. It only becomes its dangerous metal form if there is a fault or the cell is mis-used (high temperature, overdischarge, overcharge, etc.). So these batteries, especially if designed for it, can endure high-rate discharge safely. Typically, as long as the temperature stays below 50-60C.

Lithium-metal cells, while they have a low internal resistance, can also become extremely dangerous at high temperatures. So, without a temperature monitor of some type, it's dangerous to use them in applications where the battery could experience continuous and prolonged high-rate discharge.

I know from my own experience, even when using eneloops, which are low internal resistance cells -- if I fire the flash constantly and at high power for a period of minutes, they can be too hot to touch when I have to change them out. So it's feasible the same type of thing could happen with the lithium-metal cells, and these would be much more dangerous when overheated (too hot to touch is getting into the range of 70C or more).

Also the lithium-primary cells, while they may start at 1.5V, the voltage may actually rise as the cell becomes discharged (to the point of about halfway or two thirds discharged) and as the cell rises in temperature. Though from this datasheet it looks like the new cells start as high as 1.8V for low current loads.

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

Also of interest, on Page 2 of the datasheet the internal resistance profile is close to 0.12 ohms, but rises significantly, above 0.4 ohms, between the rate of discharge of 2400mAH and 3200mAH. So this is another reason not to use it in your speedlights, where the rate of discharge can exceed 10A. For comparison, eneloop internal resistance is around 0.025 ohms.

And the other reason for the capacitor in a flash tube is because of the high voltage required to fire the flash (hundreds of volts for a xenon flash tube). A circuit generates high voltage (typically a flyback/inverter-transormer circuit) that charges the capacitor, this is why especially some of the older flashes would have a high-pitched noise as they charged.

Edited on Feb 27, 2015 at 04:16 PM · View previous versions



Feb 27, 2015 at 01:20 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon USA advisory re AA lithiums & speedlights


We get a product advisory now after all these years? Whats up with that, did someone go up in flames? I've used lithium batteries in my 580EX ii a few times with no problems.


Feb 27, 2015 at 02:37 PM





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